Let's chat: Vessels in Age of Sigmar

[WarbossKurgan]

More pics of Voodoo Forest!

[Killax]

1 hour ago, Ollie Grimwood said:

@Killax I very much agree there were many vessels and the like mentioned in WFB that never made it to the table, in fact narrative wise WFB was a whole lot more AoS than many credit it with.  I think the progress made in plastic kits will advance the possibilities for this sort of thing as will Forge World restarting Warhammer Forge (they did do an Empire landship and a Dwarf Zepplin) 

Surely this sort of thing is why we’ve got AoS in the first place, to dial the fantasy up to 11 ?,  why blow the World up otherwise? 

Absolutely, perhaps the reason as to why Man O War vessels wern't much mentioned in the later editions of WFB was because of the eventual demise of that system and the Dreadfleet not being that well recieved. Understandable from my perspective because 15mm scale games just are not that popular altogether. Which is not to say such systems cannot be cool but the visual represenation of something on that scale leads to such small details that most players I know are simply not interested. The concepts and artworks themselves though are a totally different subject.

I think that due to the "seperate models unit nature" that AoS has as opposed to regiments as seen in WFB the whole idea of transport vessels in general can be fleshed out much better. Placement of one model in AoS actually matters a whole lot more as it did for WFB. In addition I think the best part of AoS' armies remain that with this seperate model design per unit the visual representation of a battle is also more intense and actually more realistic. 
What I mean by that is that AoS often starts out in regimental unit forms like WFB but as the game progresses we clearly see that battle becomes way more chaotic as WFB could ever display. In addition the way battles work out in AoS in my opinion is also a more realistic form of melee warfare. But that's offcourse a different subject altogether.

8 minutes ago, Greyshadow said:

Wow, what a fanastic thread!  I would  love to see more vessels like the Kharadron ships. Flying ships are a great way to go get naval type elements into regular land battles. Anything that brings John Blanche’s glorious art to life gets two thumbs up from me.

Same here! As Ollie mentioned there is even much more art as just John Blanche's. I think the Land Ship in general was seen as a bit of a silly thing in WFB but for AoS it would make a lot of sence to have an amphibious war-engine. Having such an engine for Free Guild at least would make me believe that they would indeed have to tools to fight giant monsters too in the Age of Sigmar.

In general though there is allready a lot of great artwork which I feel would be really cool concepts to flesh out. Especially the Dreadfleet ships are updated, unique and fit the epic fantasy setting we're getting used to  
 

3 minutes ago, Twitch of Izalith said:

I think various transports are a good way of changing up the movement/ deployment tactics available for some armies beyond various forms of teleportation.

I would buy into it if there was something along the aesthetics of Dark Eldar transports for the elves. Some kind of siege tower like transport for the skaven would be cool too.

Not really into everybody having a bunch of flying boats though - except in a separate game.

I absolutely agree that Boats should not be the end all thing here.

For Skaven I think the capturement of a giant deep sea creature would make loads of more sence. Skaven like to be below the surface and all that. Dreadfleet fleshed out this concept into something really unique too:


In addition even WFB has some examples of previously floating castles, including the Black Ark.

[Spiny Norman]

Not a fan at all.

 

[Killax]

9 minutes ago, Spiny Norman said:

Not a fan at all.

 

Feel free to share why!  

[Spiny Norman]

25 minutes ago, Killax said:

Feel free to share why!  

 

 

[Sharkbelly]

Ships! More ships is always better!

[Killax]

15 minutes ago, Spiny Norman said:

<picture>

Seems like you are not aware of what's going on in AoS allready?

If anything Seraphon are probably the most alien-space-ship like faction right now.



Cheers,

[Galas]

To be honest, the lack of transport and existence of proper artillery was one of the things I liked more about Fantasy than 40k. Call me a weirdo, but I don't like vehicles. Monsters/Walkers like Dinosaurs, or things like Dreadnoughts, etc...? Ok, those are cool. But for me vehicles have been always the most boring models out there. Why would I spent 60€ on a ship/Rhino/Tau Vehicle when I can buy 20 nice infantry models for that price and give them much more personality? 

I don't know.

[Twitch of Izalith]

12 minutes ago, Galas said:

To be honest, the lack of transport and existence of proper artillery was one of the things I liked more about Fantasy than 40k. Call me a weirdo, but I don't like vehicles. Monsters/Walkers like Dinosaurs, or things like Dreadnoughts, etc...? Ok, those are cool. But for me vehicles have been always the most boring models out there. Why would I spent 60€ on a ship/Rhino/Tau Vehicle when I can buy 20 nice infantry models for that price and give them much more personality? 

I don't know.

Its interesting that Games workshop are keen that the 2 systems should be regarded as separate entities - despite the obviously similar systems. The more vehicles they bring in to AoS the more similar the game get aesthetically  - as well as mechanically. 

[mumperpa]

I like the idea but I don't think that every army needs a vehicle. I can see potential for if they sell well, every faction getting something.  Some factions, like bonesplitterz, wanderers, brayherds wouldn't really fit. Also, flying ships would get pretty redundant. I think a good way to approach this would be drop a narrative supplement for it, as well as release a few ships, and make it into a game where its all about naval conflict.  That way it wouldn't completely change the game, but it would still be fun. Factions like the dark elf pirates, nurgle, some ogres like the maneaters could get the spotlight. It would make a fun skirmish add on, where you upgrade your ship and add troops to your crew. 

[Faedryd]

Flying vessels for some factions? Great! Flying vessels (or equivalent transportation options) as an choice for every faction? IMO this would be pretty boring. If every army had something like this the KO (and any other similar faction, which GW intruduces hopefully someday) wouldn't be anything special anymore.

 

Of course theoretically thinking about which flying vessel would suit which army can be pretty fun! When there was the rumor about undead pirates coming with Malign Portants, I was thinking about how GW could do this without some plain undead pirates like in Pirates of the Caribbean my idea was something like a flying bone arc for Death Rattle, made of the bones of different creatures, where Skeleton Warriors are fluffwise a part of the ship, till they disembark by crawling out of this giant pile of bones.

[NurglesFirstChosen]

Tbh I think a conversation exclusively about vessels is not quite hitting the mark. I can see AOS going more fantastical - some factions would get flying ships n other vehicles, and others massive monsters (and some an amalgamation of both).

I know this may change the nature of the game slightly but everyone knows bigger is better  Altough saying that, some armies such as seraphon, KO and BCR already have armies of this kind anyway. So it’d just be a continuation of this approach. 

[Galas]

1 hour ago, mumperpa said:

I like the idea but I don't think that every army needs a vehicle. I can see potential for if they sell well, every faction getting something.  Some factions, like bonesplitterz, wanderers, brayherds wouldn't really fit. Also, flying ships would get pretty redundant. I think a good way to approach this would be drop a narrative supplement for it, as well as release a few ships, and make it into a game where its all about naval conflict.  That way it wouldn't completely change the game, but it would still be fun. Factions like the dark elf pirates, nurgle, some ogres like the maneaters could get the spotlight. It would make a fun skirmish add on, where you upgrade your ship and add troops to your crew. 

I'm not agaisn't the idea of some "transports" like Bastilodons/Equivalents (I know they aren't a transport but they could be one) or some giant beast for goblins, Bonesplitterz, etc... Theres many ways to make "transports" in the game that aren't just vehicles.

[Killax]

3 hours ago, Galas said:

To be honest, the lack of transport and existence of proper artillery was one of the things I liked more about Fantasy than 40k. Call me a weirdo, but I don't like vehicles. Monsters/Walkers like Dinosaurs, or things like Dreadnoughts, etc...? Ok, those are cool. But for me vehicles have been always the most boring models out there. Why would I spent 60€ on a ship/Rhino/Tau Vehicle when I can buy 20 nice infantry models for that price and give them much more personality? 

I don't know.

Well likely because quite some 40k vehicles are quite boring many are because especially on the SM and CSM side share the same base kit and are just an alteration to that.

What Id like to see is indeed massive variance. Even a flying ship in faction A should look and work very differently from B. Better put I wouldnt like a Stormcastified Ironclad and Chaos Ironclad!

The great thing of narrative and the reason I call it vessels is also because it could indeed also be a crew riding a Dragon, floating tower or even throne. 

[Snoe]

I think different types of transports would be awesome if it was done with moderation. I think it would be a great way to balance factions that have difficulties in the movement phase. More and more armies get the option to turn up anywhere on the battlefield outside of 9" and the armies that don't has a clear disadvantage in the objectives game we love and play at the moment. Transports and other vessels would be a cool way of bringing these factions up to speed(pun intended.) 

The balancing act for GW would be not to give everyone everything. Either you get some teleport shenanigans or you get a wicked vehicle to get your guys around the board.

Although I would love a small flying chariot platform propeled by prosecutor-like wings and some over-the-top lookin thunderbolt X-bow gun at the back and vanguard-commandoes ready with boarding hooks and azyrite handgrenades at the ready hanging from the sides, ready to jump on to the nearest enemy craft for my SCE. Just sayin'.?

[Kramer]

I share the enthusiasm from a modeling point of view. But from a gameplay perspective I would also like to highlight the other side of the idea. 

What i love about the ships for kahadron overlords is that it introduces a faction with a completely different play style. That for me is the biggest selling point on the new factions gw released/spend suitable amount of time on.  Another great example is beastclaw raiders. Or sylvaneth with the forest shannanigans, fyreslayers with triple saves, Khorne with blood points. Etc, etc,  It challenges you as a player with distinct advantages en disadvantages. 

One of the things that I would hate to have happen is too many factions get airships making the same play style commonplace. Just like I think it would be a shame if too many factions acros different alliances would get the monster mash treatment/feel beastclaw raiders has. Or any of the other defining factors.

Now I again would love  flying ships for my rats but... even more a different playstyle with wormholes or burrowing or something unique. I just hope GW can keep the unique  styles coming. 

[Killax]

I think GW is creative enough to keep the unique styles. This is also very well displayed in Dreadfleet honestly, with to pretty much everyone's suprise Skaven using a massive fish as vessel with a Warpstone bell right in front of it. Some stuff from Dreadfleet  :


What I basically love about AoS so much is actually the creative depth we can delve into. Nothing should be seen as strange or unrealistic. Ships are but a part of possible vessels. 

Cheers,
 

[Kramer]

16 hours ago, Killax said:

I think GW is creative enough to keep the unique styles. This is also very well displayed in Dreadfleet honestly, with to pretty much everyone's suprise Skaven using a massive fish as vessel with a Warpstone bell right in front of it. Some stuff from Dreadfleet  :


What I basically love about AoS so much is actually the creative depth we can delve into. Nothing should be seen as strange or unrealistic. Ships are but a part of possible vessels. 

Cheers,
 

Yeah let's hope so! But the more different styles and abilities in the gameplay the harder it is to balance. Stormcast lightning striking down from the sky is awesome! But how do you make it different from skaven burrowing up? Kahadron flying around is a cool ability but how will it differ from grots flying around? You are right they have shown them to be very creative but it's not hard to imagine that the more factions they do, the harder it becomes to keep them truly different. 

 

also a store near me is selling their unoppened Dreadfleet box for about €45. What do you think a good addition? Or not worth the money?

[Killax]

2 hours ago, Kramer said:

Yeah let's hope so! But the more different styles and abilities in the gameplay the harder it is to balance. Stormcast lightning striking down from the sky is awesome! But how do you make it different from skaven burrowing up? Kahadron flying around is a cool ability but how will it differ from grots flying around? You are right they have shown them to be very creative but it's not hard to imagine that the more factions they do, the harder it becomes to keep them truly different. 

also a store near me is selling their unoppened Dreadfleet box for about €45. What do you think a good addition? Or not worth the money?

I think one of the easiest ways to keep the difference there is by visualisation of actual models. E.g. Stormcast do not seem to need vessels while Skaven would like it. In terms of rules I can even see Skaven be unique with a vessel being able to transport 30 to 40 Skaven, afterall their strenghts are swarms and not the elite. The impact of this on the game is much larger as can be said in words, both visually and in terms of impact.

For flying keeping things different to be isn't that much of a requirement, things fly just well fly.... I feel the way they ignore terrain and can move over units is exactly how flying should work out. Offcourse a balloon would not have the same flying movement as that of a mechanical speeding airship but again there is enough design space there.

One of the easiest things to keep things different too is to not try and make all vessels be like transports. I think some races would use them for transport purposes and others as functional monster units. In addition to that I also think that 

As for the Dreadfleet game! I think you could look into it if you like random experiences and don't mind the scale. In general though I find the game a bit too random for my liking but the creative design for it is fantastic. What's less great is the game design. It's from an era where I really didn't feel GW's design vibe but luckily that era is over now. If you like to get games for their creative designs and the like I do think you can get it for that price. 

[Menkeroth]

Anyway, not all must have them. Only some, while others enjoy chariots and monsters. Or, as some have already pointed out, the whole idea will get ubiquitous and dull.

[The Door Master]

This topic is kinda funny for me because my Gutbuster army is basically fishermen that hunt sea-monsters in hulking metal fishing boats; I call them the Mermongers. (working name)

Here is a ship I've been working on.

[Arkanaut Admiral]

Love this thread!  Got an idea, the Ironweld Arsenal artillery trains could be literal.  We’ve already got chaos dwarf trains, so why not order ones? 

[Ar-Pharazôn]

I think both biological and mechanical vessels have a future in AoS. Spear of Shadows certainly points to places where we can see new stuff developing. I'd personally love to see mobile Skaven fortresses that just pour clanrats all over the battlefield. 

[Kramer]

On 12/25/2017 at 7:57 PM, The Door Master said:

This topic is kinda funny for me because my Gutbuster army is basically fishermen that hunt sea-monsters in hulking metal fishing boats; I call them the Mermongers. (working name)

Here is a ship I've been working on.

Ah man! Really wanted to see the pictures but they don't load  Are you by any chance using a service like photobucket? 

[Praetor of Calth]

So this might be a long shot, but I personally feel that the new Fungoid Shaman could actually be a real indicator of this indeed being the direction AOS will be taking.

If you take note of the squig on his base, it not only seems too resemble a whale, or perhaps even a void whale, it appears to have a rocky shell on it's back pitted with craters.

I think this shell won't actually be a shell as such, but a cave system. (Can you see where this going yet?)

With the earlier artwork posted in this thread, and GW's tendency on going to it's roots over the past few years, we can perhaps assume that Moonclan Grots will indeed be the "Grot Sky Pirates" we have received hints of, and that they will have "ships" of sorts. However, with that in mind, we need to also take into consideration the general theme of "new factions" in AoS outside of Azyr which generally focus on just how they survived the Age of Chaos.

So with that in mind, I think we'll see Clans of Grots that live in giant Squigwhales which harbour giant cave systems atop their backs where the clans actually live. 

Ofc I could also be clutching at straws, or at best just insane, but I genuinely believe this is what we're going too see.