broche Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 (edited) @Scurvydog this is quite interesting. I did not had the chance to experiment ME yet, but the way i saw it i expect it to be very random (wich doesn't necesseraly mean not fun ) So reading from your experience, do you think using bloodtooth for mid-late quickduff teleport and/or weirnob with hand of gork might be a good strategy? Also are MK/Gordrack intesting investment? Edited October 25, 2019 by broche Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuinacridoneGold Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 One more question, what do you guys think is the best weapon loadout for Gore-Gruntas? I was thinking about the Choppas, as the extra attack is crunchy and you would still go in melee for the boar attacks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broche Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 8 minutes ago, QuinacridoneGold said: what do you guys think is the best weapon loadout for Gore-Gruntas? it's pretty close now. charge bonus from Hacka compensate for extra attack on choppas. Hacka can help reach hiding backline model, but as you say hte 2'' don't really help second row to attack as their base is so big. At the end of the day i don't think it's really relevent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakree Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 31 minutes ago, QuinacridoneGold said: One more question, what do you guys think is the best weapon loadout for Gore-Gruntas? I was thinking about the Choppas, as the extra attack is crunchy and you would still go in melee for the boar attacks. As @broche said it's personal preference. Whether you charged, have +hit, have RR1s to hit, have RR1s to wound, any other bonuses to wound, any additional attacks etc. It swings on so many different things all of which make one marginally better than the other that the best choice is the one which is most aesthetically pleasing to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scurvydog Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 1 hour ago, broche said: @Scurvydog this is quite interesting. I did not had the chance to experiment ME yet, but the way i saw it i expect it to be very random (wich doesn't necesseraly mean not fun ) So reading from your experience, do you think using bloodtooth for mid-late quickduff teleport and/or weirnob with hand of gork might be a good strategy? Also are MK/Gordrack intesting investment? Sure a MK is never a bad purchase, it might even be the best choice, despite eating up a lot of points. In these smaller games I really prefer no clan and brutish cunning, you need all the MD you can get for movement tricks. As these games a shorter and every single unit counts for a lot, I like the destroyer artifact on a megaboss, to really swing the favor and possibly have him trigger a smashin and bashin as well! My approach for next time will most likely be something like this: SPEARHEAD Orruk Warchanter (110) 5 x Orruk Brutes (140) - Pair of Brute Choppas MAIN BODY Orruk Megaboss (150) - General - Command Trait : Brutish Cunning - Artefact : Destroyer Orruk Warchanter (110) 6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (320) - Jagged Gore-hackas REARGUARD 3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (160) - Pig-iron Choppas TOTAL: 990/1000 EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 0 WOUNDS: 79 You can never be certain how things will enter the battle, although this should cover well enough regardless of when the forces enter and where. Alternatively a warchanter and brutes could be switched for 10 ardboyz and ironskulls boyz or a command point, but I think 2 warchanters bring so much value and it increases the chance to have one where you need it. Imagine putting it in the spearhead and you play a scenario where the spearhead first enters at the end of turn 2... nonono. With a MK the only real option is: SPEARHEAD Orruk Warchanter (110) 5 x Orruk Ardboys (90) MAIN BODY Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (460) - General - Command Trait : Brutish Cunning - Boss Gore-hacka and Choppa - Artefact : Ethereal Amulet - Mount Trait : Mean 'Un 3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (160) - Pig-iron Choppas REARGUARD 3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (160) - Pig-iron Choppas TOTAL: 980/1000 EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 0 WOUNDS: 61 I do think the other list is stronger and more versatile though, but a MK is a force to be reckoned with and it can bring down the hammer with a 2x12" movement whereever it pleases. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabbuk Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 (edited) Hi everyone, I got a question about list building specifically. Instead of just asking if a list is good, I'd like to get some feedback and suggestions on how to build a good Ironjawz list. My general thinking is this: - What models do I have? - What's gonna be my main hammer, anvil? - Do I have enough units if there are many objectives? - What is my overall strategy? Now regarding the grouping of units, for example taking 6 GGs instead of 3, or 15 ardboys instead of 10, I was wondering what are the general guidelines, do's and don'ts in list building. We're having a 1200pts match next week and here's all the models I have at the moment (1180), that I have grouped in a way that makes sense to me. The 6 GGs are my main hammer, then I have an anvil unit of ardboys (10) and 2 little units for objective guarding. And another group of brutes for extra punch and big monsters. I was also wondering when I should take the Ironfist battalion and when I shouldnt, at this level of points. My list: Allegiance: Ironjawz- Warclan: IronsunzOrruk Megaboss (150)- GeneralOrruk Warchanter (110)Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (110)6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (320)- Pig-iron Choppas10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)5 x Orruk Brutes (140)- Pair of Brute Choppas5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)4 x Ironskull's Boyz (80)Total: 1180 / 1250Extra Command Points: 0Allies: 0 / 200Wounds: 102 If you could share your knowledge on list building with me, that'd be great as I would love to develop the confidence to build my own. Edited October 25, 2019 by Jabbuk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasper Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 After having seen a couple of batreps and listened to some podcasts, Im gonna reconsider Big Waaagh. The armywide +1/1 plus 6+ FNP just seems insane, especially on stuff like Gordrakk, and it gives us access to the Wardokk. For just 80 pts we get a caster and access to Bonesplitterz lore which is honestly amazing. With his dance to get +1 o casts, we basically have a ranged Locus of Diversion on a 6+. You still have 2x Mighty Destroyers with trait and Ironfist. The only issue is the lack of Smashing and Bashing, and that you gotta aim for turn 2 to have generated enough points for the juicy buffs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broche Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 @Scurvydog I think this could work? The teleport combined with the +2 charge can swap game quickly. The weirnob can puke on brutes and megaboss to make them move faster too. I just realized you can only play squad of 10 ardboys, wich is pretty weak... ( i wanted to use 15 ardobys instead of 10 brutes first) Spoiler Allegiance: Ironjawz- Warclan: BloodtoofsSpearheadOrruk Warchanter (110)5 x Orruk Brutes (140)- Pair of Brute Choppas- 1x Gore ChoppasMain BodyOrruk Megaboss (150)- General- Trait: Get Da Realmgate- Artefact: Quickduff AmuletOrruk Weirdnob Shaman (110)- Lore of the Weird: Da Great Big Green Hand of Gork10 x Orruk Brutes (280)- Pair of Brute Choppas- 2x Gore ChoppasRearguard3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (160)- Pig-iron ChoppasEndless Spells / Terrain / CPsExtra Command Point (50)Total: 1000 / 1000Extra Command Points: 1Wounds: 79 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TALegion Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 1 hour ago, Kasper said: After having seen a couple of batreps and listened to some podcasts, Im gonna reconsider Big Waaagh. The armywide +1/1 plus 6+ FNP just seems insane, especially on stuff like Gordrakk, and it gives us access to the Wardokk. For just 80 pts we get a caster and access to Bonesplitterz lore which is honestly amazing. With his dance to get +1 o casts, we basically have a ranged Locus of Diversion on a 6+. You still have 2x Mighty Destroyers with trait and Ironfist. The only issue is the lack of Smashing and Bashing, and that you gotta aim for turn 2 to have generated enough points for the juicy buffs. I'm 50/50 on running a Big Waaagh list for a tournament tomorrow. I agree - the added power from guaranteed 6++ on turn 1 and +1/+1 and global Waaagh (vs. IJ's 18" bubble) on turn 2 is pretty great. Really, it's a comparison between those versus Smashin n Bashin + the clans, since you get virtually all of the other IJ bonuses on turn 1 in a BW list. The only thing I'm still iffy on is whether it's a legitimate option to run any general other than Gordrakk. Brutish cunning is likely the only trait that can even compare to Gordrakk's guaranteed 6 Wpoints, so I think it's a question of whether you value one MD (in addition to the Ironfist's one, which I think is essential) over the consistency of Gordrakk. It come down to personal preference. I'm limited to the models that I have now and their weapon loadouts, so the list would be purely IJ units. Basically, it'd be: Allegiance: Big Waaagh!Mortal Realm: UlguGordrakk the Fist of Gork (540)- General- Mount Trait: Weird 'UnOrruk Warchanter (110)- Artefact: Talisman of the Watcher- Warbeat: Fixin' BeatOrruk Warchanter (110)- Artefact: Betrayer's Crown- Warbeat: Killa BeatOrruk Warchanter (110)6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (320)- Pig-iron Choppas3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (160)- Jagged Gore-hackas20 x Orruk Ardboys (360)- 3x Gorkamorka Banner Bearers- 1x Gorkamorka Glyph Bearers4 x Ironskull's Boyz (80)Ironfist (160)Extra Command Point (50)Total: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 2Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 127 The Ulgu artefacts will (ideally) let me save a CP on giving Gordrakk mystic shield + give the other warchanter the ability to do damage to a horde. Regardless if whether I run IJ or BW, I'll try to take some mental notes and report back here with my experiences. I'm not a competitive player at all, so it'll just be initial impressions. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodylan Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 Thoughts so far: I’ve played three 2k games with the new book now with rough variations of this list, with and without iron suns against idoneth twice and FEC once. So far the list has been far better than expected. Ironsunz is simply amazing and I think warchanters are borderline broken at 110 points, the extra damage on big units is insane. So far a game hasn’t made it past turn 2-3 due to the sheer damage output, but I’m keen to play it a bit more. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabbuk Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 46 minutes ago, TALegion said: Jagged Gore-hackas20 x Orruk Ardboys (360)- 3x Gorkamorka Banner Bearers- 1x Gorkamorka Glyph Bearers4 x Ironskull's Boyz (80)Ironfist (160)Extra Command Point (50) That's a cool list. May I ask what you will use the Ironskull's for in your game? I have them in my list too and am wondering how to use them wisely. Also, what makes you take Ironfist vs just having more bodies? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TALegion Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 @Brodylan Any reason for not making the Weirdnob the general? If he's the general, he can take the Dead Kunnin' command trait which gives you d3 CP at the start of the game (vs. Right Fist of Dakkabad, which is only 1 CP). You can do this because the Ironsunz trait specifies "An Ironsunz Megaboss general must...", meaning it's only mandatory if your general is a megaboss. This was confirmed in the FAQ, too. 3 hours ago, Jabbuk said: That's a cool list. May I ask what you will use the Ironskull's for in your game? I have them in my list too and am wondering how to use them wisely. Also, what makes you take Ironfist vs just having more bodies? In this case, Ironskull's were intended to sit on back-line objectives and/or block deepstrikes. They're not strong enough to warrant using them to go after your opponent, but they can do something vs. weak enemy units that might try to sneak around you and take objectives. As for Ironfist, it's incredibly useful. You can't use Mighty Destroyers normally in a Big Waaagh list (because it's an IJ-specific ability) without Ironfist and/or Brutish Cunning, and Gordrakk can't take Brutish Cunning. Might Destroyers lets you give Godrakk a 24" threat range (flying, too) and GGs get an 18" threat range before charging, which is huge. In a lot of circumstances, your opponent is basically not safe anywhere. And, if the unit is in combat, they get to fight for free, which either: A. softens up the enemy unit for the later combat phase, or b. kill the enemy unit outright, letting your unit move and charge another unit in that turn. Also, because it's a battalion, you get an extra command point, and extra artefact, and it lets you lessen your number of unit drops during deployment. All of this is great, and (imo) more valuable than 160pts of bodies, which is probably just another three GGs. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodylan Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 49 minutes ago, TALegion said: @Brodylan Any reason for not making the Weirdnob the general? If he's the general, he can take the Dead Kunnin' command trait which gives you d3 CP at the start of the game (vs. Right Fist of Dakkabad, which is only 1 CP). You can do this because the Ironsunz trait specifies "An Ironsunz Megaboss general must...", meaning it's only mandatory if your general is a megaboss. This was confirmed in the FAQ, too. In this case, Ironskull's were intended to sit on back-line objectives and/or block deepstrikes. They're not strong enough to warrant using them to go after your opponent, but they can do something vs. weak enemy units that might try to sneak around you and take objectives. As for Ironfist, it's incredibly useful. You can't use Mighty Destroyers normally in a Big Waaagh list (because it's an IJ-specific ability) without Ironfist and/or Brutish Cunning, and Gordrakk can't take Brutish Cunning. Might Destroyers lets you give Godrakk a 24" threat range (flying, too) and GGs get an 18" threat range before charging, which is huge. In a lot of circumstances, your opponent is basically not safe anywhere. And, if the unit is in combat, they get to fight for free, which either: A. softens up the enemy unit for the later combat phase, or b. kill the enemy unit outright, letting your unit move and charge another unit in that turn. Also, because it's a battalion, you get an extra command point, and extra artefact, and it lets you lessen your number of unit drops during deployment. All of this is great, and (imo) more valuable than 160pts of bodies, which is probably just another three GGs. It still allows me the ability to waagh this way and the extra range on the big base for mighty destroyers is my thinking. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TALegion Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Brodylan said: It still allows me the ability to waagh this way and the extra range on the big base for mighty destroyers is my thinking. Oh, wow - that's true. I'm just realizing that only a megaboss general can Waaagh. That's a pretty big deal Edited October 26, 2019 by TALegion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scurvydog Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 7 hours ago, broche said: @Scurvydog I think this could work? The teleport combined with the +2 charge can swap game quickly. The weirnob can puke on brutes and megaboss to make them move faster too. I just realized you can only play squad of 10 ardboys, wich is pretty weak... ( i wanted to use 15 ardobys instead of 10 brutes first) All the limitations with only 2 of each warsroll and also only minimum unit strength in rearguard and spearhead gives a lot of limitations. The reason I do not want to use any teleports, other than finding brutal cunning nearly mandatory especially in small games without ironfist, the meeting engagements has a rule that really makes teleporting a pain. This rule is "Deadly territory" which states that you must treat enemy arrival edges like enemy units, so any reserves/teleports etc must be set up more than 9" from them. Now look at all the meeting engagement battleplans and you will quickly see, that a lot of them has about half the edges of the board as arrival edges for your opponent, as in many plans you arrive with different parts of the army from different edges. Also remember the smaller board and then of course the actual enemy models on the board, and it suddenly becomes nearly impossible to teleport anything anywhere useful, especially against an opponent who is any good. As a result using bloodtoofs you will sit there with a near useless command trait and artefact instead. It might work sometimes, especially if you roll plan 1 where arrival is only from 1 board edge for each army, but otherwise expect to be extremely limited in its use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tezia99 Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 How has everyone’s prayer game been going? Finding I’m missing a lot of the 4+ to get the prayers off, especially in clutch moments. Last few games I’ve managed 1 maybe 2 4+ rolls and while I know that’s just the luck of the dice I can’t help but be a little peeved at the comparison to other armies. Cities prayers going off on a 2+ and getting to choose prayer to what they need. Fireslayers are off on a 2+ as well. Wondering if I’m just a little bitter but taking get em beat and then not getting to use it all game, and not being able to switch it up per the moment looks amazing on paper but is devastating when you fail to get your buffed unit in because you failed a prayer is ooof Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broche Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 (edited) 18 hours ago, Scurvydog said: This rule is "Deadly territory" which states that you must treat enemy arrival edges like enemy units, so any reserves/teleports etc must be set up more than 9" from them. Oh i see. I was not aware of this rule, i need to reread the section. With that it make total sense to forgo teleport then as it's too easy to deny. edit: @Scurvydog deadly territory just mention reserve unit. You think it apply to hand of gork? I'm not so sure Edited October 27, 2019 by broche Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TALegion Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 Just tried out IJ in a local tournament - various levels of competitive players and more casual players, but the overall winner was another IJ with a list like this: Quote Allegiance: IronjawzMortal Realm: GhurMegaboss on Maw-Krusha (460)- General- Boss Gore-hacka and Choppa- Trait: Brutish Cunning- Artefact: Gryph-feather Charm- Mount Trait: Loud 'UnOrruk Warchanter (110)- Warbeat: Get 'Em BeatOrruk Warchanter (110)Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (110)- Lore of the Weird: Da Great Big Green Hand of GorkFungoid Cave-Shaman (90)- Allies20 x Orruk Ardboys (360)3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (160)- Jagged Gore-hackas3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (160)- Jagged Gore-hackas5 x Orruk Brutes (140)- Pair of Brute Choppas5 x Orruk Brutes (140)- Pair of Brute ChoppasIronfist (160)Total: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 1Allies: 90 / 400Wounds: 137 I didn't see the exact weapon/spell loadouts, so some things are missing, but I'm 99% sure that the units are correct. I know he ran brutish cunning and gryph-feather, too. I ran this and came in 9th out of 10 (winning 1/3 games): Quote Allegiance: Ironjawz- Warclan: IronsunzMortal Realm: HyshMegaboss on Maw-Krusha (460)- General- Boss Gore-hacka and Choppa- Trait: Bursting with Power- Artefact: Sunzblessed Armour- Mount Trait: Loud 'UnOrruk Weirdnob Shaman (110)- Lore of the Weird: Da Great Big Green Hand of GorkOrruk Warchanter (110)- Artefact: Aetherquartz Brooch- Warbeat: Fixin' BeatOrruk Warchanter (110)- Warbeat: Killa Beat6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (320)- Pig-iron Choppas10 x Orruk Brutes (280)- Pair of Brute Choppas- 2x Gore Choppas10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)- 1x Gorkamorka Banner Bearers- 1x Gorkamorka Glyph Bearers10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)- 1x Gorkamorka Banner Bearers- 1x Gorkamorka Glyph Bearers5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)- 1x Gorkamorka Banner BearersIronfist (160)Total: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 1Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 143 Overall, I feel that the list performed well. My placing was largely due to my own mistakes. I'm fairly new to the game, it was my first tournament (a little nervous, haha) and it was my first time playing against the three of the armies that I faced (Skaven with 120 plague monks, seraphon, and a 4-bloodthirster Khorne list). With more practice and fewer careless mistakes, I believe that I could have taken at least one more game. I'm looking forward to playing more. Initial thoughts: - I could definitely remove the 5-man ardboy unit and replace it with something more useful. The first thing that comes to mind is Fungoid cave-shaman (like the winner's list). If it just uses mystic shield each turn, it lets the weirdnob use hand of gork more. Also, the army is pretty CP thirsty overall, so any additional CP would be appreciated. - Ironsunz was a terrific clan - much stronger than I expected. The -1 to hit on the first turn let me be very aggressive, making turn 1 charges with the boss and GGs each game. Also, the counter-charge completely changes the way that people need to play around you - you have a lot of opportunities to engage them when they retreat, try to sneak past your units, engage your units one at a time, etc. I'll try the other clans, but I was very surprised by how much I relied on the Ironsunz' benefits. - Loud 'Un performed better than expected. I was on the fence about it vs. Weird 'Un, but, when combined with Ironsunz' -1 to hit, Loud 'Un certainly made me tankier than Weird 'Un would have. Spells were never very threatening to me, but that may just be because of the armies that I faced. - Mortal wounds, on the other hand, were pretty devastating for the megaboss. In each game, mortal wounds accounted for between 40-100% of all wounds taken. This makes me want to experiment with Ignax scales. - I feel that this is likely a problem with my play, but I didn't utilize Waaagh at all. In each game, I told myself "Not this turn; I might get a better opportunity later." It's most likely that this was a play mistake on my end - I shouldn't hesitate to use Waaagh on 2-3 units if it will make a difference. But, it does make me wonder how valuable it is and whether it may be worth making the weirdnob the general in order to get the Dead Kunnin' command trait (+d3 CP vs. Right Fist of Dakkabad's +1 CP). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakithe Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 Question...can Mighty Destroyers be used on a unit that was tossed around via Big Green Hand? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasper Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 5 hours ago, TALegion said: Initial thoughts: - I could definitely remove the 5-man ardboy unit and replace it with something more useful. The first thing that comes to mind is Fungoid cave-shaman (like the winner's list). If it just uses mystic shield each turn, it lets the weirdnob use hand of gork more. Also, the army is pretty CP thirsty overall, so any additional CP would be appreciated. - Ironsunz was a terrific clan - much stronger than I expected. The -1 to hit on the first turn let me be very aggressive, making turn 1 charges with the boss and GGs each game. Also, the counter-charge completely changes the way that people need to play around you - you have a lot of opportunities to engage them when they retreat, try to sneak past your units, engage your units one at a time, etc. I'll try the other clans, but I was very surprised by how much I relied on the Ironsunz' benefits. - Loud 'Un performed better than expected. I was on the fence about it vs. Weird 'Un, but, when combined with Ironsunz' -1 to hit, Loud 'Un certainly made me tankier than Weird 'Un would have. Spells were never very threatening to me, but that may just be because of the armies that I faced. - Mortal wounds, on the other hand, were pretty devastating for the megaboss. In each game, mortal wounds accounted for between 40-100% of all wounds taken. This makes me want to experiment with Ignax scales. - I feel that this is likely a problem with my play, but I didn't utilize Waaagh at all. In each game, I told myself "Not this turn; I might get a better opportunity later." It's most likely that this was a play mistake on my end - I shouldn't hesitate to use Waaagh on 2-3 units if it will make a difference. But, it does make me wonder how valuable it is and whether it may be worth making the weirdnob the general in order to get the Dead Kunnin' command trait (+d3 CP vs. Right Fist of Dakkabad's +1 CP). I have the same thoughts from playing a couple of games - Ironsunz give you some really awesome tools, and considering there are quite a few fast armies (especially Slaanesh) the -1 to hit is not to be underestimated imo. The counter charge as you said also messes with people - They are so used to be able to charge and only tag a select few units, but with this ability you don't care - So you charged and my other units are more than 3" away? Hold my beer! Now the issue is that you are forced to take the kinda meh Ironsunz artefacts. I really love the Ethereal Amulet + Brutish Cunning + Weird 'Un combo on my Megaboss, but that isn't possible with the Ironsunz. In general I really like the dual Megaboss setup and has been using Gordrakk + "normal" dude. I really love Gordrakk, but I might have to downgrade him to dual Megabosses so one takes the required trait/artefact, and the other guy is beefed up survivability wise. In general I really think maximizing damage on the Maw Krusha is the wrong way to go about things - The damage is already insane, and I think it is much more important to keep him alive and well to stack up SFV and also to ensure your dude lives until your next hero phase, where you hopefully are in combat with something and can rip it apart with MD. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonhart040 Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 Hi people! I just had my first two games with Orruk warclans, one with IJ and the other using TBW. We didn't use realm and scenery rules, it was just two games to test the greenskins, and neither Warclans, just vanilla IJ. First game was against Stormcast Eternals, heavy raptor and evocator list, and the second one against Cities of Sigmar, gunline and stormcast. For the first game I used this list: Spoiler Allegiance: Ironjawz Megaboss on Maw-Krusha - General - Command Trait : Brutish Cunning - Boss Gore-hacka and Choppa - Artefact : The Boss Skewer - Mount Trait : Heavy 'Un Orruk Warchanter - Warbeat : Get 'Em Beat Orruk Warchanter - Warbeat : Killa Beat Orruk Weirdnob Shaman - Artefact : Shamanic Skullcape - Lore of the Weird : Da Great Big Green Hand of Gork10 x Orruk Ardboys 10 x Orruk Ardboys 10 x Orruk Ardboys 3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas 3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas 5 x Orruk Brutes Ironfist Extra Command Point The mission was "Knife to the heart" (GH2019). I won't relate all the game, just my main impressions. First turn teleport with Hand of Gork is great, put 10 ardboys in my opponent's backfield and I generated a threat he didn't expect. Shaman is useful but a bit meh, maybe with realm rules and more magic at hand it may do better. I didn't use "Mighty Destroyer" on my MK until turn 2, and that was a mistake, he was too far from other enemy units and did nothing. At least he could counterattack a unit of Evocators who wanted to conquer my objective...but died miserably at their hands. Warchanter with get 'em beat was very useful, the other with killa beat wasn't that good, all unit were always outside of range. Ardboys and Gruntas did all the job. Ardboys are the best unit of IJ (Bonus charge, bonus bravery, good attacking stats, shields...), followed by gruntas with spears. Brutes did nothing, and after two games I still feel they're a waste of points. Ironfist battalion is the key, especially if you five units in it and deploy them at the same time: first turn assured, and you CAN be in combat in the first turn. But I made a mistake, the battalion boss was one of the grunta bosses, and also the first to charge...and die. I have to be more careful with that. After three rounds I lost two units of ardboys, both gruntas, brutes and MK. My opponent captured my point and the game was over. I had the sensation that something was missing, that pure IJ lack something, so for next game I tried TGW. Second game was against Cities of Sigmar - Hammerhall (gunners, great swords, hurricanum, steam tank, evocators, sequitors,...), mission was "Escalation" (CB), a real pain in the ass of a deployment. No realm and scenery rules, and same list, just this time with TGW rules (so, no IJ battletraits). My opponent was also trying CoS for the first time, so it was a pretty slow game. We reduced the mission turns to 3 (5 normally) or we would have been there all night. Waagh! points are pretty easy to get, at least the first turn and hard to lose, so I had almost all abilities during most of the game. With Gordrak you have 6 points instead of D6, but then you can't equip him with "Brutish cunnin", and that's key. I've learn of my mistakes and used "Mighty Destroyers" on my MK, and also with the ironfist gruntas (leaving the boss unit a bit far from the front to avoid being shot). The MK destroyed two units and a half before he died, worth. This time the shaman was pretty useless... only succeeded with some mystic shield and bolt to move some units, but nothing else. Movement warchanter was key, again, and killer warchanter...did nothing. Ardboys were the MVP's of the game, again, also gruntas did their job pretty well before being exterminated, and brutes...well, they were on the battlefield at least... After 3 rounds, losing half of my army and playing not that aggressive as always, I won 7 - 2. So, finally, my first impressions. I love the brute models but...I feel they get completely surpassed by ardboys. Gruntas are good and they move is useful in games with far objectives. Ardboys, well, you know. Awful models, great unit. Warchanters are great two, but I'm not sold on using two if I'm using IJ, one always seems to much. Killa beat is more useful in IJ lists, and movement chant in TBW lists. Shamans are good, but maybe situational, depends on the rules of the game I suppose. MK is nuts, and I prefer the basic one over Gordrak (to expensive!). So, for my next game I plan to use a different and maybe extreme list, I'll explain you how it worked out later this week. Spoiler Allegiance: Big Waaagh! Megaboss on Maw-Krusha- General - Command Trait : Brutish Cunning - Boss Gore-hacka and Choppa - Artefact : Daubing of Mork - Mount Trait : Heavy 'Un Megaboss on Maw-Krusha- Boss Gore-hacka and Choppa - Artefact : Metalrippa's Klaw - Mount Trait : Mean 'Un Orruk Warchanter (110)- Warbeat : Fixin' Beat 3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas 3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas 3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas 10 x Orruk Ardboys5 x Orruk ArdboysIronfist (160)Extra Command Point (50) Sorry for the FRACKING LONG POST. I'd like to hear your impressions and advices for future games. Do you agree with my unit opinions? Would change something of the lists? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skumbaagh Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 Warscroll builder is updated with ardboys in units of 10 to be battleline also in IJ. FAQ is not updated. Could there have been more stuff updated in an official answer somewhere? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TALegion Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 12 hours ago, Malakithe said: Question...can Mighty Destroyers be used on a unit that was tossed around via Big Green Hand? Yes. Hand says that you can't move in the subsequent movement phase and MD makes you move in the hero phase. It's separate from the regular move, which is cancelled out by MD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasper Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 1 minute ago, TALegion said: Yes. Hand says that you can't move in the subsequent movement phase and MD makes you move in the hero phase. It's separate from the regular move, which is cancelled out by MD. And remember to place the unit outside of 12" with the teleport 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TALegion Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 12 hours ago, Kasper said: Now the issue is that you are forced to take the kinda meh Ironsunz artefacts. I really love the Ethereal Amulet + Brutish Cunning + Weird 'Un combo on my Megaboss, but that isn't possible with the Ironsunz. In general I really like the dual Megaboss setup and has been using Gordrakk + "normal" dude. I really love Gordrakk, but I might have to downgrade him to dual Megabosses so one takes the required trait/artefact, and the other guy is beefed up survivability wise. In general I really think maximizing damage on the Maw Krusha is the wrong way to go about things - The damage is already insane, and I think it is much more important to keep him alive and well to stack up SFV and also to ensure your dude lives until your next hero phase, where you hopefully are in combat with something and can rip it apart with MD. Agreed on all of that. I'm tempted to get a second cabbage to try that out - one is hard enough to kill, and 2 would be awful. Especially with Gordrakk giving himself, the other boss, and a 6-man GG unit +1 to hit on the first turn. Tanky krusha's are definitely the way to go, too. Without artefact or command traits invested into letting him live, he's not difficult to kill in one turn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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