AoS 2 - Ironjawz Discussion

[Neomaxim]

5 hours ago, umpac said:

You can't use the Waaagh without a Megaboss general though, which is a big hit. If you really want CP you could always take an allied Madcap.

Fungoid Cave Shaman, actually, but yes... they're absolutely stellar allies, and give access to Skuttletide which is just incredible.

[Waaaaaaght?]

I'm just now getting into ironjawz/big waaagh!. I currently have:

Megaboss on foot

Warchanter 

Weirdnob

3 GG's

10 Ardboys.

Can anyone create a future 2k point list? I am open to big waaagh! Or ironjawz, but I prefer against brutes.

Thanks in advance.

[Jabbuk]

I actually went back to the drawing board and remembered that I have another Warchanter that's primed. I figured I could just drop the MB and focus on a good casty Weirdnob Shaman and over buffing units on both sides.

Allegiance: Ironjawz
- Warclan: Ironjawz
Mortal Realm: Hysh

Leaders
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Warbeat: Get 'Em Beat
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (110)
- General
- Trait: Dead Kunnin'
- Artefact: Shamanic Skullcape
- Lore of the Weird: Da Great Big Green Hand of Gork
Orruk Warchanter (110)

Battleline
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)
6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (320)
- Pig-iron Choppas
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)
5 x Orruk Brutes (140)
- Pair of Brute Choppas

Units
4 x Ironskull's Boyz (80)

Total: 1230 / 1250
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 111
 

I dropped the Ardfist to get something a bit more reliable. Thoughts?

[Jabbuk]

Double post. Yay phone.

Edited November 16, 2019 by Jabbuk

[Jabbuk]

1 hour ago, Neomaxim said:

Fungoid Cave Shaman, actually, but yes... they're absolutely stellar allies, and give access to Skuttletide which is just incredible.

I will definitely include this combo in my list in the future. Thanks to Leo for enlightening us

Edited November 16, 2019 by Jabbuk

[Jabbuk]

59 minutes ago, Waaaaaaght? said:

I'm just now getting into ironjawz/big waaagh!. I currently have:

Megaboss on foot

Warchanter 

Weirdnob

3 GG's

10 Ardboys.

Can anyone create a future 2k point list? I am open to big waaagh! Or ironjawz, but I prefer against brutes.

Thanks in advance.

Buy and build 3 other GGs because 6 of em is an excellent hammer. Just buy more ardboys, at least 20 more. Another Warchanter for sure because he's the best as well. Throw in a mawkrusha and then you can. Build and at around configurations on warscrolls Builder

buy brutes if you love the models (I do) and try to play them in groups of 10. 

[Jabbuk]

.

Edited November 16, 2019 by Jabbuk
Double post again...

[Malakree]

@Jabbuk at this point all you really need to do is play some games. There's only so much that theory crafting can get you until you need in game experience to either prove/disprove your instincts.

A lot of it will also be subjective choices over your own playstyle. The best example is that Leo is a famously conservative player while I'm ridiculously aggressive as a player. How he plays, the armies he runs and the units he includes are all going to be strange and unwieldy for me. Equally I tried playing Big Waaagh! and it's completely alien to me yet apparently it has a higher win rather than IJ does atm.

It feels to me like you need to play 5/6 games messing about with all the different units before you'll get much more from this thread. I've already played 13 tournament games with the new book, the opinions I have now are wildly different from when the book was first released.

Edited November 16, 2019 by Malakree

[Jabbuk]

9 minutes ago, Malakree said:

@Jabbuk at this point all you really need to do is play some games. There's only so much that theory crafting can get you until you need in game experience to either prove/disprove your instincts.

A lot of it will also be subjective choices over your own playstyle. The best example is that Leo is a famously conservative player while I'm ridiculously aggressive as a player. How he plays, the armies he runs and the units he includes are all going to be strange and unwieldy for me. Equally I tried playing Big Waaagh! and it's completely alien to me yet apparently it has a higher win rather than IJ does atm.

It feels to me like you need to play 5/6 games messing about with all the different units before you'll get much more from this thread. I've already played 13 tournament games with the new book, the opinions I have now are wildly different from when the book was first released.

Thanks man, really useful advice. I wish I could play more but my league is very casual. I guess I'll try to join some club around here to get more mileage

[Waaaaaaght?]

12 hours ago, Jabbuk said:

Buy and build 3 other GGs because 6 of em is an excellent hammer. Just buy more ardboys, at least 20 more. Another Warchanter for sure because he's the best as well. Throw in a mawkrusha and then you can. Build and at around configurations on warscrolls Builder

buy brutes if you love the models (I do) and try to play them in groups of 10. 

So would basicly getting start collecting boxes be sufficient. That was my current plan, along with maybe getting some allies as orruk arowboys. Or should those be normal if I play a big waaagh! army.

[umpac]

7 hours ago, Waaaaaaght? said:

So would basicly getting start collecting boxes be sufficient. That was my current plan, along with maybe getting some allies as orruk arowboys. Or should those be normal if I play a big waaagh! army.

2 start collecting boxes are a safe bet, 20 ardboyz, 2 warchanters and 6 gruntas is a very solid start to 2000pts. 1-2 extra boxes of ardboyz (or brutes if you like the models and don't care too much about min/maxing) and a shaman + foot boss and you're at 2000. Or skip the extra boyz and the foot boss and get a maw-crusha.

[Waaaaaaght?]

1 minute ago, umpac said:

2 start collecting boxes are a safe bet, 20 ardboyz, 2 warchanters and 6 gruntas is a very solid start to 2000pts. 1-2 extra boxes of ardboyz (or brutes if you like the models and don't care too much about min/maxing) and a shaman + foot boss and you're at 2000. Or skip the extra boyz and the foot boss and get a maw-crusha.

Also on a maw-crusha, should I build it as Gordrakk or a regular maw-crusha? I know that regular is the only one that can hold artifacts, traits ect, but Gordrakk has a few great abilities, like it generates 6 waaagh! points guaranteed instead of D6 if he is the general.

[umpac]

8 hours ago, Waaaaaaght? said:

Also on a maw-crusha, should I build it as Gordrakk or a regular maw-crusha? I know that regular is the only one that can hold artifacts, traits ect, but Gordrakk has a few great abilities, like it generates 6 waaagh! points guaranteed instead of D6 if he is the general.

I've seen Big Waaagh do well both with and without Gordrakk. If you play Jawz I'd take the normal MGoMK or no MK at all. Unless you play in very strict tournaments I don't think anyone will have a problem with you playing MK model as either Gordrakk or a regular megaboss. You could always just magnetize the weapons if you really want to keep your options open.

Edited November 17, 2019 by umpac

[Waaaaaaght?]

@umpac thanks for the ideas and clarification on my intro to ironjawz/big waaagh! armies.

[Malakree]

2 hours ago, Waaaaaaght? said:

Also on a maw-crusha, should I build it as Gordrakk or a regular maw-crusha? I know that regular is the only one that can hold artifacts, traits ect, but Gordrakk has a few great abilities, like it generates 6 waaagh! points guaranteed instead of D6 if he is the general.

To be honest I've never had a tournament call me on WISIWG with the cabbage. The difference between Big G and a normal MK is so small relative to the model it's not noticeable.

This is especially true since so many people use the axes as alternative weapon looks for the MK's. My second one has Big G's axe and a rip tooth because I didn't want to use the sword again. My advice would be get some 2mm magnets, put one into the hole ontop of his armour where the banner normally goes, put the same magnet on the bottom of both the normal banner and BIg G's banner before you spray/paint them. Then paint them both and switch between them depending on whether you're using the normal one or Big G.

On the SC, it's such phenomenal value that I'd say you can go up to 4 before it starts to tank. At 4 you have 12 GG's which is 2 units of 6 or 1 unit of 6 and 2 units of 3s for a small gorefist. 4 Warchanters is a little excessive but you can easily run 3 depending on your list and 40 Ardboys is the other base unit atm.

As an equivalence.

• 2 Start Collecting £120
• 15 Ardboys £32
• 6 Goregruntas £96

So 30 Ardboys and 6 GG's is £144. 2 start collecting + 15 Ardboys (taking you to 35 Ardboys) is £152.

For £8 you get an extra 5 Ardboys and 2 warchanters.

As long as you want the GG's the start collecting is easily better value. It's only if you don't want them that you should buy the units individually.

[broche]

On 11/15/2019 at 6:09 PM, DanteeChaos said:

I've been theorycrafting some Bloodtoofs lists recently. My Ironjawz are painted red so I really want to make this clan work, even though I realize that it's most likely not the most optimal way to play them - especially with their trash command trait.

Bloodooth is unfortunatly strictly inferior to Ironsunz in my opinion, but it's still not bad. Quickduff amulet is a powerfull artefact, and the extra +1 charge is never bad. You're list is good, so at the end of the day Bloodtooth is not gonna make it bad. It's just Ironsunz would better  

[DanteeChaos]

29 minutes ago, broche said:

Bloodooth is unfortunatly strictly inferior to Ironsunz in my opinion, but it's still not bad. Quickduff amulet is a powerfull artefact, and the extra +1 charge is never bad. You're list is good, so at the end of the day Bloodtooth is not gonna make it bad. It's just Ironsunz would better  

Thanks for the reply. Although I agree that Ironsunz are superior to Bloodtoofs I fail to see how this applies to my list in particular. This isn't an alphastrike list so the -1 to hit during the first battle round is no big deal.

Also, I'm afraid that my MBMK can die easily without an Ethereal Amulet or a defensive command trait. Would it be a good idea to fit a Megaboss on foot into the list? It could be accomplished with removing one Warchanter and reducing the Ardboy blob to 10 models. That gives us 200 points = enough for a MB and a CP.

[broche]

-1 to hit is not only good in alpha strike. Most game see combat in round 1. Ironsunz is also more flexible on your trait (you could make a weirnob general). Command ability is also arguably better (especially if you plan to play defensive).

Personnaly in my bloodtooth i use a MB on foot for amulet, and use grypgh feather charm on Krusha. Obviously this is all personnal preference, and I would have no issue dropping the Footboss and play quickduff on MK like you do.

I've never use the double bataillion too. That would be the main concern with your list is that you're using 320 (counting balewind) pts of non troop  I think that's a lot...

[Waaaaaaght?]

I was looking at the warchanter ability, and the way its worded, it sounds like the extra damage is added at the end instead of changing the damage characteristic. 

Would this let me do more than 1 damage to Goterk? I know someone that has him in a fyreslayers army. This could be a major weakness to him.🤩

[Malakree]

4 minutes ago, Waaaaaaght? said:

I was looking at the warchanter ability, and the way its worded, it sounds like the extra damage is added at the end instead of changing the damage characteristic. 

Would this let me do more than 1 damage to Goterk? I know someone that has him in a fyreslayers army. This could be a major weakness to him.🤩

No on Gotreks warscroll it says.

If the damage inflicted by an attack....is greater than 1, change it to 1.

While the warchanter warscroll says

Add 1 to the damage inflicted by attacks made by melee weapons.

 

[Waaaaaaght?]

19 minutes ago, Malakree said:

No on Gotreks warscroll it says.

If the damage inflicted by an attack....is greater than 1, change it to 1.

While the warchanter warscroll says

Add 1 to the damage inflicted by attacks made by melee weapons.

 

Dang, that's what I thought, but I hoped against it. Gotrek is very hard to damage or kill. His main weakness is just to run from him, he is pretty slow.

[tom_gore]

About the upcoming orruk warband for Underworlds - I hope its warscroll brings a boost to Brutes in the army. Those poor green mean fighting machines are being replaced by Ardboys in almost all lists at the moment.

 

[Gothmaug]

3 hours ago, tom_gore said:

About the upcoming orruk warband for Underworlds - I hope its warscroll brings a boost to Brutes in the army. Those poor green mean fighting machines are being replaced by Ardboys in almost all lists at the moment.

 

Wouldn’t hold your breath. The underworld warscrolls always feel like an afterthought, kind of like tossing a bone to the AOS crowd. They could be planned better and a great way to introduce new heroes and such, but usually all you get is a self contained unit with very little synergy with the AOS army they link it to. 

[tom_gore]

2 hours ago, Gothmaug said:

Wouldn’t hold your breath. The underworld warscrolls always feel like an afterthought, kind of like tossing a bone to the AOS crowd. They could be planned better and a great way to introduce new heroes and such, but usually all you get is a self contained unit with very little synergy with the AOS army they link it to. 

Well there is hope. Grashnak's Despoilers is a great little toolkit for any chaos army and of course in BoC armies it can easily replace the vanilla shaman.

[Jabbuk]

1 hour ago, tom_gore said:

Well there is hope. Grashnak's Despoilers is a great little toolkit for any chaos army and of course in BoC armies it can easily replace the vanilla shaman.

Yes, there is hope.