AoS 2 - Ironjawz Discussion

[Orkmann]

Metalrippa is our only way to deal meaningful damage against tanky targets, I never leave it home when running a cabbage. Best artifact in our book imo.

[mrteige]

9 hours ago, Arkahn said:

You cant have 2 mount trait and 2 artefacts with 1 enhancement. 

Command entourage instead of warlord give you one less drop. 

3x5 Ardboyz is better than 1x15 imo, by far. 

You can consider the caster artefact with flaming weapon instead of metal rippa too. 

Totally forgot about the mount traits. Good catch.

I have been thinking about warlord/entourage. I might lean towards entourage to because it is only 1 CP you will gain/miss out on

Why do you think 3x5 is better? and how would you use them?

[mrteige]

1 hour ago, Orkmann said:

Metalrippa is our only way to deal meaningful damage against tanky targets, I never leave it home when running a cabbage. Best artifact in our book imo.

I agree 100%

[Arkahn]

2 hours ago, mrteige said:

Why do you think 3x5 is better? and how would you use them?

No coherencie issues with 5 ardboyz, you still can group them in the same bataillon

15 ardboyz with 1" range is really bad in v3 imo

[mrteige]

8 hours ago, Arkahn said:

No coherencie issues with 5 ardboyz, you still can group them in the same bataillon

15 ardboyz with 1" range is really bad in v3 imo

Really bad is a stretch. +3 to charge solves a lot of the problems. With good pile ins you can get most into combat.
I'm playing today so i'll try both options out and see what works the best in regards to my strategies

[5kaven5lave]

What ho again chaps.

Quick rules question. If my Maw-krusha has Mystic Shield and All-Out Defence, that would make him +2 to save (though obviously, that caps at +1 on any roll), does that carry into negating -2 rend, so I’d be making that roll at the normal 3+ save, and rolling against -1 rend with a 2+ save? Ta!! 

[ShaneHobbes]

2 minutes ago, 5kaven5lave said:

What ho again chaps.

Quick rules question. If my Maw-krusha has Mystic Shield and All-Out Defence, that would make him +2 to save (though obviously, that caps at +1 on any roll), does that carry into negating -2 rend, so I’d be making that roll at the normal 3+ save, and rolling against -1 rend with a 2+ save? Ta!! 

Modifiers cancel each other out so yes, +2 to your save would cancel out -2 Rend to give a megaboss a 3+ save and against a -1 Rend you would reach that cap of +1 save for a 2+ roll on a megaboss

[ShaneHobbes]

6 minutes ago, 5kaven5lave said:

 

Double post dang it

Edited July 10, 2021 by ShaneHobbes

[5kaven5lave]

6 minutes ago, ShaneHobbes said:

Modifiers cancel each other out so yes, +2 to your save would cancel out -2 Rend to give a megaboss a 3+ save and against a -1 Rend you would reach that cap of +1 save for a 2+ roll on a megaboss

Legendary, you’ve helped me out a couple of times in the last couple of days. Just smashing the hell out of some IDK as we speak, just managed to score 8VP in 2nd round of Feral Foray (Hold More, Raid, Bring it Down achieved with my own Maw-krusha). Perfect storm but hammering Eels is so satisfying. 

[ShaneHobbes]

4 minutes ago, 5kaven5lave said:

Legendary, you’ve helped me out a couple of times in the last couple of days. Just smashing the hell out of some IDK as we speak, just managed to score 8VP in 2nd round of Feral Foray (Hold More, Raid, Bring it Down achieved with my own Maw-krusha). Perfect storm but hammering Eels is so satisfying. 

Glad to help and even more glad to hear someone is smashing those damn eel lovers lol

[Newtype_Zero]

2 hours ago, 5kaven5lave said:

Legendary, you’ve helped me out a couple of times in the last couple of days. Just smashing the hell out of some IDK as we speak, just managed to score 8VP in 2nd round of Feral Foray (Hold More, Raid, Bring it Down achieved with my own Maw-krusha). Perfect storm but hammering Eels is so satisfying. 

Curious to see what list you're using to smash IDK with (there's a lot of IDK players in my area)!

[Icetea]

3 hours ago, Newtype_Zero said:

Curious to see what list you're using to smash IDK with (there's a lot of IDK players in my area)!

Same! Keen to see the list. I just played one and it was down to the wire (lost though)

[5kaven5lave]

Was a hefty slice of luck involved tbh, they had below average dice and mine were definitely above. Both of our first games of 3.0 and first games in a while. My list was Ironsunz:

MBoMK

Weirdnob

Warchanter x2

15, 10, 10 Ardboys

3 Gruntas

2x5 Brutes

Brutes sat on objectives while Boys were a bit more mobile, fired the Cabbage and Pigs at them turn one and fed small units to Eels then countercharged. Cabbage smashed a turtle and King. By the end of round 2 it was 13-6. The one thing that really stuck out to me was armour saves vs. Eels on the charge, my Boys used to be rolling 6s to save rerolling 1s with Mystic Shield, now it’s 4s (if they have All-Out Defence also). Massive also for the Maw-krusha. Can’t overstate how huge that felt. 

Edited July 11, 2021 by 5kaven5lave

[Malakree]

Just did a one day tournament yesterday. There were 2 Ironjawz players there, both using ironsunz. The other player finished middle of the ranks while I managed to come in an impressive last place due to my supreme tactical skills which involved charging a mawkrusha into gotrek for some reason.

We had two very different lists, I had double MK with 2wc, weirdnob, fungoid, 3/3pigs 5/5ardboys. He had an MK, some heroes and 30 Brutes.

I had a couple of takeaways based on both my own gameplay and the general things I was hearing from the other players.

Ridiculous rend or Mortal Wounds are required - I managed to get a mawkrusha to +3 to save ignoring the first rend. You needed a rend of 4 to get it off a 2+. This sort of thing seemed to be not uncommon across the tables, I was hearing tales of a Nagash that had a 2+ save vs -2 rend while rerolling 1s to save. The other way to deal with it is just overwhelming quantity which sadly we don't really do.

Brutes are actually not bad - Anyone who is vaguely familiar with me knows I loath Brutes, their overcosted, slow and really situational. Thing is that the situation in which they are good is the situation we are in, monsters are running around everywhere and 5+ wound models went way up in value.

CP generation feels really mediocre - I'll be honest, this one surprised me. It's a combination of a few things, CP's not carrying over means that things like the fungoid, which trigger in your hero phase, are really awkward as if you go 2nd then they don't even carry over to your opponents turn, as a result the reliability has tanked a bunch. Combine that with being unable to use the same CA twice, one CA per unit and the amount that get thrown at you anyway suddenly the 2/3 you do generate are less important.

Amulet of Destiny is Broken - Seriously, it's dumb. Next one day is next week I think and I'm going to try swap out the Ironsunz and 2nd MK to go Ironclad, Amulet of Destiny and Weird Un. 

Don't make stupid charges - Pretty obvious one I know, sadly orruk see charge, orruk make charge. The overwatch ability means you get punished even harder and realistically you need to be charging in your hero phase or doing multiple charges in a single turn.

Personally I see there being a couple of different playstyles, double MK leaning towards an alphastrike style, I'll probably try using this next. My other thoughts are Wrath of Gork MSU ardboys in Big Waaagh with the most stable being the more traditional, single MK with large infantry board presence. Will be interesting to see how things pan out as I hopefully have several lined up over the next couple of weeks to try different things!

[Newtype_Zero]

3 hours ago, Malakree said:

Just did a one day tournament yesterday. There were 2 Ironjawz players there, both using ironsunz. The other player finished middle of the ranks while I managed to come in an impressive last place due to my supreme tactical skills which involved charging a mawkrusha into gotrek for some reason.

We had two very different lists, I had double MK with 2wc, weirdnob, fungoid, 3/3pigs 5/5ardboys. He had an MK, some heroes and 30 Brutes.

I had a couple of takeaways based on both my own gameplay and the general things I was hearing from the other players.

Ridiculous rend or Mortal Wounds are required - I managed to get a mawkrusha to +3 to save ignoring the first rend. You needed a rend of 4 to get it off a 2+. This sort of thing seemed to be not uncommon across the tables, I was hearing tales of a Nagash that had a 2+ save vs -2 rend while rerolling 1s to save. The other way to deal with it is just overwhelming quantity which sadly we don't really do.

Brutes are actually not bad - Anyone who is vaguely familiar with me knows I loath Brutes, their overcosted, slow and really situational. Thing is that the situation in which they are good is the situation we are in, monsters are running around everywhere and 5+ wound models went way up in value.

CP generation feels really mediocre - I'll be honest, this one surprised me. It's a combination of a few things, CP's not carrying over means that things like the fungoid, which trigger in your hero phase, are really awkward as if you go 2nd then they don't even carry over to your opponents turn, as a result the reliability has tanked a bunch. Combine that with being unable to use the same CA twice, one CA per unit and the amount that get thrown at you anyway suddenly the 2/3 you do generate are less important.

Amulet of Destiny is Broken - Seriously, it's dumb. Next one day is next week I think and I'm going to try swap out the Ironsunz and 2nd MK to go Ironclad, Amulet of Destiny and Weird Un. 

Don't make stupid charges - Pretty obvious one I know, sadly orruk see charge, orruk make charge. The overwatch ability means you get punished even harder and realistically you need to be charging in your hero phase or doing multiple charges in a single turn.

Personally I see there being a couple of different playstyles, double MK leaning towards an alphastrike style, I'll probably try using this next. My other thoughts are Wrath of Gork MSU ardboys in Big Waaagh with the most stable being the more traditional, single MK with large infantry board presence. Will be interesting to see how things pan out as I hopefully have several lined up over the next couple of weeks to try different things!

Keep in mind, not matter how things pan out at the moment, we are getting a new book; likely in August.

[DerZauberer]

Had an interesting interaction with belakor and my megaboss last week in a game of AoS3.0.

It was turn 2, Belakor used his "The Dark Master" ability on my Megaboss (roll per phase, if 3+, unit cannot do stuff, e.g. use command abilities (which is erratad for "issue" or "receive" CA).

It's the start of the combat phase, he rolls a 3+ and my Megaboss cant do stuff. I've wanted to use my waaagh! faction command ability, read the rules and nowhere in the Ironjawz Waaagh CA or the Errata i've found that the Megaboss actually issues the command. I've had at weirdnob right next to him, he uses Waaagh!, we still measure from the megaboss, i got +2 Attack allthough my Megaboss could not issue CAs, my Weirdboy did. 

Even in the Core Book errata where all "old" CAs were explained or erratad, i've found no information on whether this move was legal or not. 

It literally won me the game and i'm curious if the TGA Hivemind had any experience with belakor and ironjawz waaagh.

Any thoughts? 

Edited July 12, 2021 by DerZauberer
spelling

[Backbreaker]

14 hours ago, Malakree said:

CP generation feels really mediocre - I'll be honest, this one surprised me. It's a combination of a few things, CP's not carrying over means that things like the fungoid, which trigger in your hero phase, are really awkward as if you go 2nd then they don't even carry over to your opponents turn, as a result the reliability has tanked a bunch. Combine that with being unable to use the same CA twice, one CA per unit and the amount that get thrown at you anyway suddenly the 2/3 you do generate are less important.

Really? I tend to use +1 to hit and +1 to save every combat phase. Plus one mighty destroyer per Orruk turn.

 

14 hours ago, Malakree said:

Brutes are actually not bad - Anyone who is vaguely familiar with me knows I loath Brutes, their overcosted, slow and really situational. Thing is that the situation in which they are good is the situation we are in, monsters are running around everywhere and 5+ wound models went way up in value.

I saw a post on FB about using brutes in a "underdog battalion", it really emphasize the role of monster hunters of our brutes!

[Malakree]

54 minutes ago, Backbreaker said:

I saw a post on FB about using brutes in a "underdog battalion", it really emphasize the role of monster hunters of our brutes!

The hunters battalion. 

54 minutes ago, Backbreaker said:

Really? I tend to use +1 to hit and +1 to save every combat phase. Plus one mighty destroyer per Orruk turn.

1 per hero phase and 1/2 from the start of the round is 3/4 base per round. Adding a 50% chance to get a single CP which might be first or second turn in the round just feels unreliable, hence my use of the term mediocre rather than useless. I specifically downgraded to a fungoid over a 2nd weirdnob for the CP generation/triumph and it was a mistake. I could have made way better use of the extra faction spell.

[Orkmann]

6 hours ago, DerZauberer said:

Had an interesting interaction with belakor and my megaboss last week in a game of AoS3.0.

Even in the Core Book errata where all "old" CAs were explained or erratad, i've found no information on whether this move was legal or not. 

While it does not describe exactly the same situarion, I think the old ca part of the core book faq is relevant here. When you measure a distance for a ca bubble effect from a model than both the issuer and the receiver of the ca should be that model. It means that the cheeky weirdnob should not be eligible to call the waaagh 🙂

[Kelsicle]

13 hours ago, DerZauberer said:

Had an interesting interaction with belakor and my megaboss last week in a game of AoS3.0.

It was turn 2, Belakor used his "The Dark Master" ability on my Megaboss (roll per phase, if 3+, unit cannot do stuff, e.g. use command abilities (which is erratad for "issue" or "receive" CA).

It's the start of the combat phase, he rolls a 3+ and my Megaboss cant do stuff. I've wanted to use my waaagh! faction command ability, read the rules and nowhere in the Ironjawz Waaagh CA or the Errata i've found that the Megaboss actually issues the command. I've had at weirdnob right next to him, he uses Waaagh!, we still measure from the megaboss, i got +2 Attack allthough my Megaboss could not issue CAs, my Weirdboy did. 

Even in the Core Book errata where all "old" CAs were explained or erratad, i've found no information on whether this move was legal or not. 

It literally won me the game and i'm curious if the TGA Hivemind had any experience with belakor and ironjawz waaagh.

Any thoughts? 

I think I agree with what you did here. The command ability doesn't say that your General is issuing the command, only that the Megaboss has to be the General and on the battlefield. I agree that the Weirdnob can use the CA

 

EDIT: Scratch that, just re-read the FAQ section @Orkmann refers to, he is right, the Unit that the aura is measured from is considered the issuer of the Command, in this case the Megaboss. So yea, you shouldnt have been able to do that.

Edited July 12, 2021 by Kelsicle

[DerZauberer]

18 hours ago, Malakree said:

1 per hero phase and 1/2 from the start of the round is 3/4 base per round

When general alive 1 CP, 1 CP when you go first, 2 CP if you go second. Thats 2-3 base. You can use your single Hereoic Action to get another one on 4+, but miss out on the other 3 hereoic actions, of which all are really good.

+1 hit, +1 save, mighty destroyers and once a waaagh are allready CAs you want to use in your turn, +1 hit, +1 save, redeploy, battleshock are CAs you want to use on your enemy turn (but you get one more CP in your enemy turn). Thats possibly 8 commands with only 6 points max. per round, of which two are only on 4+ and heroic actions.

I don't know, those are only the generic ones which are allready really good. Can imagine there will be plenty of really good CAs in the new Battletomes.

[ShaneHobbes]

Is it clear how Smashing and Bashing works with a unit made to Strike Last from something like a spell or beginning of combat phase ability with the new Strikes First/Last chart?

[Malakree]

22 minutes ago, ShaneHobbes said:

Is it clear how Smashing and Bashing works with a unit made to Strike Last from something like a spell or beginning of combat phase ability with the new Strikes First/Last chart?

As smashing and bashing is the last applied thing it takes precedence over any other effect which would contradict it.

[Jabbuk]

Guys, is it worth it to play Big Waaagh! At 1000pts? Or is it worth it to play Big Waaagh! In 3.0 so far?

I remember it being very strong in 2.0. has anyone tried it so far?

[NauticalSoup]

My motivation to learn to play current Warclans with the rules being replaced in like a month is negligible. I'm sure Big Waaagh! is still fine for this last few weeks it exists in its current form, but as before it scales heavily on access to point generation so probably not the greatest at 1k.