AoS 2 - Ironjawz Discussion

[VonSmall]

Hi all,

Been a while since posting on here. Just though I’d share the list I’m currently running. It won’t win any events but I really wanted to try Choppas out and it does ok against anything that isn’t mega armoured. Typically advances in waves with the front units all having +1 damage.

Wardokk gives 6+ ward to Krishna while casting shield and I’ve taken to giving the chanter teleport in order to try and block some unleash h3ll.

Edit - 3 units of ardboyz all with 22 damage 2 attacks is savage!

Allegiance: Ironjawz
- Warclan: Choppas
- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
- Triumphs: inspired

Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (495)**
- General
- Boss Gore-hacka and Choppa
- Command Trait: Checked Out  
- Artefact: Amulet of Destiny (Universal Artefact)
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (495)***
- Boss Gore-hacka and Choppa
- Mount Trait: Mean 'Un
Orruk Warchanter (120)***
- Warbeat: Killa Beat
Orruk Warchanter (120)***
- Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)
- Warbeat: Get 'Em Beat
Wardokk (85)*
- Allies

Battleline
5 x Orruk Ardboys (95)*
- 1x Gorkamorka Banner Bearers
5 x Orruk Ardboys (95)*
- 1x Gorkamorka Banner Bearers
5 x Orruk Ardboys (95)*
- 1x Gorkamorka Banner Bearers
5 x Orruk Ardboys (95)**
- 1x Gorkamorka Banner Bearers
5 x Orruk Ardboys (95)**
- 1x Gorkamorka Banner Bearers
5 x Orruk Ardboys (95)**
- 1x Gorkamorka Banner Bearers
5 x Orruk Ardboys (95)**
- 1x Gorkamorka Banner Bearers

Core Battalions
*Battle Regiment
**Battle Regiment
***Command Entourage - Magnificent

Additional Enhancements
Artefact

Total: 1980 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 0 / 4
Allies: 85 / 400
Wounds: 117
Drops: 5
 

Edited August 6, 2021 by VonSmall

[Carnith]

Played a 2v2 yesterday with 1500 a player. I took my orruks, other players were giants, trees, and goats. Teams was destruction vs goats and trees. Mission was shifting objectives (I forget new name)  I went with big Waaagh, and Ironclad/Amulet on mawkrusha, so no brutish cunning for mighty destroyers. It was around turn 2/3 that I finally got to 20 points so my orruks are slapping nearly everything on either a 2+/2+ or 3+/2+. Trees made their way to my backline (the summoning hero, I don't remember the name) and charged my warchanter and Shaman, and proceeded to beat some tree butt while the rest of the army partied under the enemy herdstone, knocking out the summoning of the goats and forcing the player to retreat as his 30 goats only managed to kill a single brute. Mawkrusha went after Drycha and kind of got stuck in the cornor while the giants took right flank and got grinded down for a bit.  However, we basically took and held the three objectives for 3 turns. Giants in the taker tribe just held 2 of them while I pummeled the left flank. 

Teams probably should've been shifted around, but it was a learning game for the giants and the trees and just took what looked fun. 

I might start leaving the mawkrusha at home. It's insanely powerful, but I do worry about it just being an I-WIN button that my friends might not have the tools to compete with. 

 

-----------------------------------------

 

In other news, I'm hoping our book is announced today. What are some wishes we hope for Ironjawz? 

I personally want Brutes up +1 Damage across the board or some other way to give them damage. I want them to feel most distinct than ard boyz. I'd change the warchanter to something else instead of a +dmg bonus. Leave the mawkrusha as it is, maybe some minor changes. 

 

[Malakree]

19 hours ago, Carnith said:

I might start leaving the mawkrusha at home. It's insanely powerful, but I do worry about it just being an I-WIN button that my friends might not have the tools to compete with. 

If it gets going and the opponent doesn't have tools to deal with it then the MK will go nuts. The tools do exist and there are a bunch more which can deal with it if used properly, this really comes down to judging your friends and the quality of their armies/play. Much in the same way anyone playing a casual game against lower skilled players shouldn't be taking gotrek.

20 hours ago, Carnith said:

In other news, I'm hoping our book is announced today. What are some wishes we hope for Ironjawz? 

I personally want Brutes up +1 Damage across the board or some other way to give them damage. I want them to feel most distinct than ard boyz. I'd change the warchanter to something else instead of a +dmg bonus. Leave the mawkrusha as it is, maybe some minor changes. 

If we're wish listing

• All "Ironjawz" (ie. brutes and ggs) to go to a 3+ save, from the lore perspective Ardboys aren't actually "Ironjawz". That or give them all reduce rend by 1.
• a 6++ ward save built into the book as a whole, it's basically mandatory for any form of elite army to compete properly now.
• Increase the bravery of everything but Ardboys/GG's by 1.
• Ironjawz Waaagh! to be board wide.
• Warbeats to automatically work rather than a 4+. Maybe make fixin beat 1-3 heal 1, 4+ heal d3.
• A bunch of our redundant hit modifiers to be reworked into useable stuff, thinking Ironjawz Waaagh going back to a MB warscroll thing would be fine with 3.0.
• Return of Foot of Gork. Would be such an amazing invocation.
• Reintergrate the MK buffs which were stripped out to make traits and give us real options. Really annoys me that they took our 4+ impact hits, nerfed it to 5+ then said "here's an amazing mount trait that makes it 4+"....

Then for real wishlisting

• Swap the Brute +1 to hit vs stuff with 4+ wounds to something which makes them actually scary. "If this unit makes an attack against a unit with 4+ wounds then that unit cannot make wards against any damage inflicted. If that unit has has 10+ wounds then increase the rend characteristic by 1."
• Megaboss weapons increased to rend 2.

I could probably go on but we're running into brain wracking territory and true wish listing.

[Gorks Pokin' Finger]

2 hours ago, Malakree said:

If it gets going and the opponent doesn't have tools to deal with it then the MK will go nuts. The tools do exist and there are a bunch more which can deal with it if used properly, this really comes down to judging your friends and the quality of their armies/play. Much in the same way anyone playing a casual game against lower skilled players shouldn't be taking gotrek.

If we're wish listing

• All "Ironjawz" (ie. brutes and ggs) to go to a 3+ save, from the lore perspective Ardboys aren't actually "Ironjawz". That or give them all reduce rend by 1.
• a 6++ ward save built into the book as a whole, it's basically mandatory for any form of elite army to compete properly now.
• Increase the bravery of everything but Ardboys/GG's by 1.
• Ironjawz Waaagh! to be board wide.
• Warbeats to automatically work rather than a 4+. Maybe make fixin beat 1-3 heal 1, 4+ heal d3.
• A bunch of our redundant hit modifiers to be reworked into useable stuff, thinking Ironjawz Waaagh going back to a MB warscroll thing would be fine with 3.0.
• Return of Foot of Gork. Would be such an amazing invocation.
• Reintergrate the MK buffs which were stripped out to make traits and give us real options. Really annoys me that they took our 4+ impact hits, nerfed it to 5+ then said "here's an amazing mount trait that makes it 4+"....

Then for real wishlisting

• Swap the Brute +1 to hit vs stuff with 4+ wounds to something which makes them actually scary. "If this unit makes an attack against a unit with 4+ wounds then that unit cannot make wards against any damage inflicted. If that unit has has 10+ wounds then increase the rend characteristic by 1."
• Megaboss weapons increased to rend 2.

I could probably go on but we're running into brain wracking territory and true wish listing.

You pretty much hit most of my wishlisting.

I think we're going to get Orruk endless spells. The Foot of Gork is perfect endless spell bc the enemy could try to use it as well.

I agree with your assessment that Brutes must be more distinct from Ardboyz. Brutes are the distinct Ironjawz unit and should represent as much. I think their old weapons profile should come back. The streamlining stats during 2.0 hurt them and gave rise to ardboyz dominant lists. 

Same with megaboss on foot and MB on MK.

Gore Gruntas are perfect and shouldn't be touched.

[Boggler]

10 hours ago, Malakree said:

Warbeats to automatically work rather than a 4+. Maybe make fixin beat 1-3 heal 1, 4+ heal d3.

I really don't mind the 4+. Just make the Get'Em Beat proc in the Hero phase. It won't be OP at all and will give us a better idea about where we can go and how we can work around the Unleash Hell/Redeploy.

[Jabbuk]

Good day everyone,

I'm having a 1500pts match next week and I want to run BW. I can't make up my mind between two lists and I was wondering what you guys thought about it. Basically, the dilemma for me is: Do I take 20 Arrowboys to synergize with my Wardokk and Wurgogg or I just fill up with IJ units instead? Would appreciate if some guys who have run those in the past could share their thoughts. Here are the lists:

Arrowboys version

Spoiler

Allegiance: Big Waaagh!
- Grand Strategy:
- Triumphs:
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (495)
- General
- Boss Choppa and Rip-tooth fist
- Command Trait: Ironclad
- Artefact: Metalrippa's Klaw
- Mount Trait: Weird 'Un
Orruk Warchanter (120)
Wurrgog Prophet (170)
Wardokk (85)
20 x Savage Orruk Arrowboys (260)
- Reinforced x 1
10 x Orruk Ardboys (190)
- Reinforced x 1
3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (170)
- Pig-iron Choppas

Total: 1490 / 1500
Reinforced Units: 2 / 3
Allies: 0 / 300
Wounds: 108
Drops: 7

Ironjawz version
 

Spoiler

Allegiance: Big Waaagh!
- Grand Strategy:
- Triumphs:
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (495)
- General
- Boss Choppa and Rip-tooth fist
- Command Trait: Ironclad
- Artefact: Metalrippa's Klaw
- Mount Trait: Weird 'Un
Orruk Warchanter (120)
Wurrgog Prophet (170)
Wardokk (85)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (190)
- Reinforced x 1
10 x Orruk Ardboys (190)
- Reinforced x 1
5 x Orruk Brutes (150)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
5 x Orruk Ardboys (95)

Total: 1495 / 1500
Reinforced Units: 2 / 3
Allies: 0 / 300
Wounds: 98
Drops: 8

Thanks!
 

Edited August 12, 2021 by Jabbuk

[Spiky Norman]

I've had a couple of games against Mannfred with my Ironjawz and even though he hasn't been too damaging or dominating, his is extremely slippery and without being strong in ranged damage, I was wondering if any of you had any advice on how to deal with Mannfred?

Apart from just ignoring him and goad him into a melee fight, where we potentially can fight twice with Mighty Destroyer before he can slip away again.

Edited August 13, 2021 by Spiky Norman
goad not goat

[The Damascus]

Mob ’Em, Skewer ’Em, or Zap ’Em – Three Ways to Waaagh! in the New Orruk Warclans Battletome - Warhammer Community (warhammer-community.com)

Only mention of Jawz is one spell, that's not even new. Looks like we're not going to have many (if any) changes and most likely will not get anything new. 

I want to stay positvie, but I have a sad feeling that Ironjawz will end up being the weakest of the Orruks and it will be much better (stronger) option to play as Big Waaagh. My pure Ironjawz heart is bleeding today. Maybe it's time to try a new army.

[mrteige]

9 hours ago, Spiky Norman said:

I've had a couple of games against Mannfred with my Ironjawz and even though he hasn't been too damaging or dominating, his is extremely slippery and without being strong in ranged damage, I was wondering if any of you had any advice on how to deal with Mannfred?

Apart from just ignoring him and goad him into a melee fight, where we potentially can fight twice with Mighty Destroyer before he can slip away again.

I killed him once by using the Mighty destroyers trick.

Charge him in the hero phase, retreat in the movement phase (3,1" away) then pile in and smack him in the face at some point in the combat phase.

[Malakree]

2 hours ago, The Damascus said:

Mob ’Em, Skewer ’Em, or Zap ’Em – Three Ways to Waaagh! in the New Orruk Warclans Battletome - Warhammer Community (warhammer-community.com)

Only mention of Jawz is one spell, that's not even new. Looks like we're not going to have many (if any) changes and most likely will not get anything new. 

I want to stay positvie, but I have a sad feeling that Ironjawz will end up being the weakest of the Orruks and it will be much better (stronger) option to play as Big Waaagh. My pure Ironjawz heart is bleeding today. Maybe it's time to try a new army.

It's not new or changed at all.

[Spiky Norman]

2 hours ago, mrteige said:

I killed him once by using the Mighty destroyers trick.

Charge him in the hero phase, retreat in the movement phase (3,1" away) then pile in and smack him in the face at some point in the combat phase.

Ah, that one I hadn't thought of myself or read anywhere. Thanks for mentioning that little trick 😄

[mrteige]

56 minutes ago, Spiky Norman said:

Ah, that one I hadn't thought of myself or read anywhere. Thanks for mentioning that little trick 😄

you are very welcome Its the only kunnin' part of my IJ force

[Bruteforce]

7 hours ago, The Damascus said:

Mob ’Em, Skewer ’Em, or Zap ’Em – Three Ways to Waaagh! in the New Orruk Warclans Battletome - Warhammer Community (warhammer-community.com)

Only mention of Jawz is one spell, that's not even new. Looks like we're not going to have many (if any) changes and most likely will not get anything new. 

I want to stay positvie, but I have a sad feeling that Ironjawz will end up being the weakest of the Orruks and it will be much better (stronger) option to play as Big Waaagh. My pure Ironjawz heart is bleeding today. Maybe it's time to try a new army.

Yes this was my feeling. I really hope IJ don't get left in the dust.

[Malakree]

35 minutes ago, Bruteforce said:

Yes this was my feeling. I really hope IJ don't get left in the dust.

To be fair the thing we really need is updated warscrolls rather than rules. The weirdnob is a great example of something which is to expensive to be a basic magic include but is to cheap to actually bring magical power to the table. Green puke is shockingly bad, it's got 1 cast and the free green puke requires a double reinforced 285 point unit.

If it was given 2 casts or had it's warscroll spell/ability improved with a bump to 150-170 it suddenly becomes more than just a 120point hand of gork tax.

The same is true of a bunch of our warscrolls.

 

[ShaneHobbes]

3 minutes ago, Malakree said:

To be fair the thing we really need is updated warscrolls rather than rules. The weirdnob is a great example of something which is to expensive to be a basic magic include but is to cheap to actually bring magical power to the table. Green puke is shockingly bad, it's got 1 cast and the free green puke requires a double reinforced 285 point unit.

If it was given 2 casts or had it's warscroll spell/ability improved with a bump to 150-170 it suddenly becomes more than just a 120point hand of gork tax.

The same is true of a bunch of our warscrolls.

 

Brutes made more interesting. They don't necessarily have to be "better", just do something different than Ardboyz. I will die on this hill lol

[Jabbuk]

7 hours ago, mrteige said:

I killed him once by using the Mighty destroyers trick.

Charge him in the hero phase, retreat in the movement phase (3,1" away) then pile in and smack him in the face at some point in the combat phase.

But how can you pile in if you're 3.1in away?

[Aelfric]

46 minutes ago, Jabbuk said:

But how can you pile in if you're 3.1in away?

Because you charged earlier in the turn before you retreated, which means you can still pile in in the combat phase.

[Bruteforce]

8 hours ago, Malakree said:

To be fair the thing we really need is updated warscrolls rather than rules. The weirdnob is a great example of something which is to expensive to be a basic magic include but is to cheap to actually bring magical power to the table. Green puke is shockingly bad, it's got 1 cast and the free green puke requires a double reinforced 285 point unit.

If it was given 2 casts or had it's warscroll spell/ability improved with a bump to 150-170 it suddenly becomes more than just a 120point hand of gork tax.

The same is true of a bunch of our warscrolls.

 

Yeah gotta agree here, if the weirdnob was 150-170 and similar warscroll to the Wurgogg Prophet he'd be a lot more useful.

[Jabbuk]

12 hours ago, Aelfric said:

Because you charged earlier in the turn before you retreated, which means you can still pile in in the combat phase.

Wow,  I gotta reread the rules carefully because I don't compute how this works,  haha. I thought you could only pile in and fight if you were within 3in.

[Jabbuk]

22 hours ago, Aelfric said:

Because you charged earlier in the turn before you retreated, which means you can still pile in in the combat phase.

Is this the rule you're referring to? 

"A unit is eligible to fight if it is within 3" of an enemy unit and it has not fought in that phase, or if it made a charge move in the same turn and it has not fought in that phase."

So if I understand correctly, you can charge in the hero phase, retreat to be out of combat in the move phase, but can then pile in later, even if you're outside of 3", because you made a charge move in the same turn. That's some next level sh--. 

In which scenario would you want to do that exactly? Could you elaborate a bit on your strategy?

[Aelfric]

1 hour ago, Jabbuk said:

Is this the rule you're referring to? 

"A unit is eligible to fight if it is within 3" of an enemy unit and it has not fought in that phase, or if it made a charge move in the same turn and it has not fought in that phase."

So if I understand correctly, you can charge in the hero phase, retreat to be out of combat in the move phase, but can then pile in later, even if you're outside of 3", because you made a charge move in the same turn. That's some next level sh--. 

In which scenario would you want to do that exactly? Could you elaborate a bit on your strategy?

Well, for a start, it would negate "Unleash Hell" as that can only be done in the charge phase.  You could use it to charge one unit, then use the movement phase to retreat towards another unit and pile in to them - esp with pigs or MK with a longer move.  It could allow you to slingshot past a screen to hit a meatier target, or to get to an objective that was otherwise out of reach.  you only require one model to be within half an inch when you charge, so the others can be towards your intended target within coherency, making the rereat distance shorter.  It's a way of creating extra movement in the right circumstances.  It's more of a tactic than a strategy, really.  You don't even have to get within 3" with your pile-in, you only have to pile-in so you finish no further away from the nearest enemy unit - depends whether you want to fight anything or not. 

Hope that helps.

[5kaven5lave]

Do we think today might be THE DAY when all the pre-order stuff is announced then?

[Magnus The Blue]

27 minutes ago, 5kaven5lave said:

Do we think today might be THE DAY when all the pre-order stuff is announced then?

Would be nice , but I suspect it's next weekend.

[Malakree]

On 8/14/2021 at 11:31 PM, Jabbuk said:

Is this the rule you're referring to? 

"A unit is eligible to fight if it is within 3" of an enemy unit and it has not fought in that phase, or if it made a charge move in the same turn and it has not fought in that phase."

So if I understand correctly, you can charge in the hero phase, retreat to be out of combat in the move phase, but can then pile in later, even if you're outside of 3", because you made a charge move in the same turn. That's some next level sh--. 

In which scenario would you want to do that exactly? Could you elaborate a bit on your strategy?

There's 2 big tactics you can use with this.

Charge a unit then retreat, you are no longer within 3" so the enemy unit cannot pile in and attack until your own unit has already done so. You're essentially removing that combat from the activation priority.

The other is to charge a unit then hop over it so you are now in a gap in the enemy back line. You then pile in and attack onto a high priority target having bypassed the enemy screen. This is way harder now you can't just add +6" to the retreat using a run as it makes the move a lot tighter.

[mrteige]

On 8/15/2021 at 12:31 AM, Jabbuk said:

Is this the rule you're referring to? 

"A unit is eligible to fight if it is within 3" of an enemy unit and it has not fought in that phase, or if it made a charge move in the same turn and it has not fought in that phase."

So if I understand correctly, you can charge in the hero phase, retreat to be out of combat in the move phase, but can then pile in later, even if you're outside of 3", because you made a charge move in the same turn. That's some next level sh--. 

In which scenario would you want to do that exactly? Could you elaborate a bit on your strategy?

like i said earlier. this is probably the only real way to deal with manfred when playing IJ because he cant use his "Mortarch of night" rule

Other than that the other guys hve covered its uses