AaronWilson Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 1 minute ago, Backbreaker said: You can prepare a list to get this bonus round 2 of course. But it is only if none of your characters are shoot off the board, it costs you CP, you need to cast a spell successfully, ... Whereas in IJ, you get your rules round 1 and that's all. But it's litterally the game mechanic of BW, when you are full buff, you are stronger than in IJ. But the road to get there can be a bumpy ride That's fair, I've played both IJ & The Big Waagh a bit now, both have different stengths and both peak at different points. Ironjawz peak that 1-2 and hope they've done enough to hold onto the 3-5, Big Waagh needs to hold on 1-2 and then powers through the 3-5. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerZauberer Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 Do you guys think IJ still needs a Weirdnob for Big Green Hand? In my AoS3 games i've had the feeling several times now that he's just not worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AaronWilson Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 1 minute ago, DerZauberer said: Do you guys think IJ still needs a Weirdnob for Big Green Hand? In my AoS3 games i've had the feeling several times now that he's just not worth it. I like one in big waagh as he can reliably cast it with sacrificing points. I don't him in IJ but I feel he forces you to take a Warlord batallion for Skullcap, without I'd just go battle regiment and leave him home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerZauberer Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 1 hour ago, AaronWilson said: I like one in big waagh as he can reliably cast it with sacrificing points. I don't him in IJ but I feel he forces you to take a Warlord batallion for Skullcap, without I'd just go battle regiment and leave him home. Its such a hard investment to make just for the teleportation alone. I get that he offers tactical flexibility and a threat to the board by teleporting whole squads in benefitial postions, but on its own its unreliable. And giving him a artifact just to get +1 to make it less risky blocks up ironsunz and destiny trinket for example. We need the artifact slot somewhere else imo, ironsunz seem to be outright great in AoS3 as the command ability just went stronger on smaller boards and the CA changes. It makes battle round 1 so comfortable to go as ironsunz. But you need to get the "worse" artifact and a second megaboss to get for example the destiny trinket on our Mawkrusha. And here is where the Weirdnob is in direct competetion with a second megaboss. I guess lets wait and see what the new tome brings - my guess tho is that Big Waaagh will outshine IJ due to the lack of shooting and casting in IJ - and in Big Waaagh we should have plenty of good caster choices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakree Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 7 hours ago, Backbreaker said: But you don't have all these buffs immediately. Round 3 at least. And for me it's often too late. I play a lot of gore gruntas, and when I charge, I tend to end up with 2+/2+ anyway. And Ardboyz have some sort of 6+ against non MW. Finally, I play a lot of units and the Ironjawz Waaagh is often a +2 attacks, much more effective than the BW's Waaagh. But it's just the way I play You get the 6++ turn 1 and the rest of them turn 2. That's how any Big Waaagh lists should be designed. I often won't waaagh with BW, there's no need and the bonus waaagh points get sunk into casts/unbinds instead. Against some armies the +2 to unbind is the only way you'll stop key casts. 6 hours ago, Backbreaker said: You can prepare a list to get this bonus round 2 of course. But it is only if none of your characters are shoot off the board, it costs you CP, you need to cast a spell successfully, ... Whereas in IJ, you get your rules round 1 and that's all. But it's litterally the game mechanic of BW, when you are full buff, you are stronger than in IJ. But the road to get there can be a bumpy ride 2x Warchanter, 40 Orruks, wurrgog+wardokk. 10+d6 per round. Alphastrikes are essentially none existent at the moment and are so easy to stop with good deployment so it's super rare your support characters get nuked. Since most turn 1s are both players shrugging at each other you end up with so many spare cp's round 1 it's ridiculous. 4 hours ago, DerZauberer said: Do you guys think IJ still needs a Weirdnob for Big Green Hand? In my AoS3 games i've had the feeling several times now that he's just not worth it. He was bad before, with the reduced board size he's even worse. Problem is his warscroll is so awful that you're paying 120 points for a blank warscroll which won't get the HoG off most of the time (CV7 vs all the heavy wizards out there atm). Even in Big Waaagh where it's much easier to get it off it the playstyle is slower and doesn't even want the turn 1 alphastrike. Combine with how small the boards are, the objectives being closer together and heroic willpower you're realistically not getting off at any point it matters. Hopefully the new book actually fixes his warscroll rather than it being a bad version of the wardokk which costs 35 points more... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orkmann Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 I find the teleport is still crucial, because even if you never get it off, it keeps your opponent honest with his deployment and movements. If you don't want the shaman you can just take the arcane tome on the chanter. Having both the shaman and the wizard chanter is good for redundancy, and it also gives you the option to cast mystic shield on the cabbage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tezia99 Posted September 1, 2021 Share Posted September 1, 2021 18 hours ago, Backbreaker said: You can prepare a list to get this bonus round 2 of course. But it is only if none of your characters are shoot off the board, it costs you CP, you need to cast a spell successfully, ... Whereas in IJ, you get your rules round 1 and that's all. But it's litterally the game mechanic of BW, when you are full buff, you are stronger than in IJ. But the road to get there can be a bumpy ride Agree with others. I’ve currently been running MBoMK, 3 chanters(one with tome), 3x10 ardboyz 1x5 ardboyz 2x5 brutes 3 pigs. It’s 6+D6 +CA is another 5. It’s guaranteed 6+ward round one if not +1 to hit. I’ll agree that IJ plays a lot more aggressively but waaagh is really about the build up, I deploy kind of deep in my zone and try to make people either deploy aggressively and make my movement easier or wait out my push across the board as I get stronger and stronger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Backbreaker Posted September 1, 2021 Share Posted September 1, 2021 @Malakree @Tezia99 I agree with both of you, in theory, but facing a lot of shooting armies, I know my key characters (WC, MK) won't be staying on the tabletop for long. Overall, I don't think that there is a strengh gap betwen IJ and BW. Both allegiance are different and I just feel like have more tools when playing IJ (even if I have a really cool list with Rogue Idol and a MK in my head). I cannot wait to see the new book, with so many new entries, we're going to have so much to try Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakree Posted September 1, 2021 Share Posted September 1, 2021 3 hours ago, Backbreaker said: @Malakree @Tezia99 I agree with both of you, in theory, but facing a lot of shooting armies, I know my key characters (WC, MK) won't be staying on the tabletop for long. Overall, I don't think that there is a strengh gap betwen IJ and BW. Both allegiance are different and I just feel like have more tools when playing IJ (even if I have a really cool list with Rogue Idol and a MK in my head). I cannot wait to see the new book, with so many new entries, we're going to have so much to try I would personally say that prior to the new book Big Waaagh! is just better purely due to combination of Brutish Cunning (so you get your 1 mighty destroyers for free anyway) and the 6++ being ridiculously important at the moment. Outside of that Big Waaagh! has the general throughput advantage but the Ironjawz tricks bag is extensive, especially when you add in the clans. That said it's basically meaningless at this point with the new book coming out. As I said if the 6++ goes or IJ get access to it aswell then the field is wide open and I'd even say that for lists which are more "pure" then IJ is better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlayerJ Posted September 1, 2021 Share Posted September 1, 2021 Brutes new build instructions have one updated weapon profile: The 2 handed reach weapon is now -2 rend! 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkahn Posted September 2, 2021 Share Posted September 2, 2021 7 hours ago, PlayerJ said: Brutes new build instructions have one updated weapon profile: The 2 handed reach weapon is now -2 rend! Source ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boggler Posted September 2, 2021 Share Posted September 2, 2021 (edited) If it is the Gore Choppa then ok... If it is the Jagged Gore Hackas then OMG! Edit: Edited September 2, 2021 by Boggler 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakree Posted September 2, 2021 Share Posted September 2, 2021 (edited) 33 minutes ago, Boggler said: If it is the Gore Choppa then ok... If it is the Jagged Gore Hackas then OMG! It's both the special and the 2" ranged weapon. Holy gods those 2" range brutes are unbelievably good now. EDIT: Also you aren't supposed to post leaks on this forum. Edited September 2, 2021 by Malakree 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShaneHobbes Posted September 2, 2021 Share Posted September 2, 2021 Should we assume Gore Grunta versions will be upgraded as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PainfullyMediocre Posted September 2, 2021 Share Posted September 2, 2021 55 minutes ago, Malakree said: It's both the special and the 2" ranged weapon. Holy gods those 2" range brutes are unbelievably good now. EDIT: Also you aren't supposed to post leaks on this forum. Is it a leak if its freely available in a retail box? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber SunStorm Posted September 2, 2021 Subscriber Share Posted September 2, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, PainfullyMediocre said: Is it a leak if its freely available in a retail box? If someone has bought a box and that card is in there, i'd say it is ok, but would need a Mod to confirm. I have my 20 brutes split between 2x5 with 1 handers and 1x10 with 2 handers, so have the option to take either. Edited September 2, 2021 by SunStorm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scurvydog Posted September 2, 2021 Share Posted September 2, 2021 3 hours ago, Boggler said: If it is the Gore Choppa then ok... If it is the Jagged Gore Hackas then OMG! Option 2 is the hackas and 3 is the gore choppa. Basically both got 1 better rend than before. Standard 2 choppas is the same. Due to the coherency rules the hackas are far superior. If Ard boys do not get rend 2 on anything, that for sure brings the Brutes forward with a clear purpose to smash heavy armor. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabbuk Posted September 2, 2021 Share Posted September 2, 2021 3 hours ago, Boggler said: If it is the Gore Choppa then ok... If it is the Jagged Gore Hackas then OMG! Edit: Finally!! God I've been holding onto those last 2 boxes of Brutes, waiting to see if they would get a change like this. I was wondering if I would sell them. GUESS NOT! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabbuk Posted September 2, 2021 Share Posted September 2, 2021 (edited) Quick question guys. So with the new FAQ rules that non ward saves now stack with ward saves... Does this mean that Ardboys in Big Waaagh! are now going back to getting two 6++ after saves? (One for the shield + one for the BW ability) Edited September 2, 2021 by Jabbuk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gothmaug Posted September 2, 2021 Share Posted September 2, 2021 Hmm... time to dust off all those brute units again. Im curious whether the new book will allow for a solid foot slogging list. I'd love to field 2-3 Footbosses with 5-6 min-sized squads of brutes, just for the spectacle of it. I think there was an old battalion warscroll for something simmilar in a white dwarf a while back. Love the aesthetic of the newer Ironjawz models, and love to get more use from the footbosses. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tezia99 Posted September 2, 2021 Share Posted September 2, 2021 47 minutes ago, Jabbuk said: Quick question guys. So with the new FAQ rules that non ward saves now stack with ward saves... Does this mean that Ardboys in Big Waaagh! are now going back to getting two 6++ after saves? (One for the shield + one for the BW ability) Until they FAQ the FAQ, rules as written says yes you can stack “allocate when a wound is taken” abilities. I only say faq the faq because there was a Twitter post the day it came out that sounded like they may be looking into it. Furthermore on the subject, if the updated rogue idol warscroll is any glimpse into the future they will probably be rewording all the allocate after a wound wordings to be wards. We won’t really know until we see the first battle tomes though. Personally, we have a few people in our meta who insist that it was intended so when I play them I guess I’ll be using it, most other people in the area see how GW has been avoiding stacking abilities throughout 3.0 and are erring on the side of it being patched/reworded. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanoss Posted September 2, 2021 Share Posted September 2, 2021 Soooooo Gordrakk has 20 wounds (18 for MBMK) and a 4+ now…? Attacks got a bit better too 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superninja Posted September 2, 2021 Share Posted September 2, 2021 Saw that, and brutes have -2 rend on the 2" reach weapons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tezia99 Posted September 2, 2021 Share Posted September 2, 2021 6 minutes ago, Superninja said: Saw that, and brutes have -2 rend on the 2" reach weapons. Time to buy more brutes since all mine are choppa choppa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bolty Posted September 2, 2021 Share Posted September 2, 2021 28 minutes ago, Lanoss said: Soooooo Gordrakk has 20 wounds (18 for MBMK) and a 4+ now…? Attacks got a bit better too Whaaat ? o_0 where ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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