AoS 2 - Ironjawz Discussion

[Malakree]

9 minutes ago, Kasper said:

For me its probably Mean > Fast > Smelly. Not sure what you guys think or have experienced already.

Personally I'll be going fast un and won't be bothering with the second mount trait. It's not as valuable as the second artefact and I don't think I'd ever want to go double magnificent. If I did it would probably be for an extra spell in big waaagh rather than a mount trait.

[Tizianolol]

9 hours ago, Ganigumo said:

You can only use each command once per phase. There's a command trait (mega bossy) that lets your general use mighty destroyers even if another unit issued that command that phase. So if you had a mega bossy megaboss on maw krusha, and a foot megaboss you could mighty destroyers 5 units. If you had double maw krusha you could mighty destroyer 6 units.

Wow that seems very strong!!

[Kasper]

1 hour ago, Malakree said:

Personally I'll be going fast un and won't be bothering with the second mount trait. It's not as valuable as the second artefact and I don't think I'd ever want to go double magnificent. If I did it would probably be for an extra spell in big waaagh rather than a mount trait.

I dont see myself not playing 2 MKs in this edition in Ironjawz, so by default I wont ever be below 5 drops since Warlord feels mandatory for such a list. At this point does it really matter if you are 5 drops or 10-11? Probably not, so might as well go double Warlord imo.

Im currently considering 1 MK as general with Hulking Brute trait + Mean'un mount trait + Amulet of Destiny artefact. Survivable with a bunch of impact hits when charging/Stomping.

I played the other with Fast 'Un and Destroyer and while the damage from that one turn with Waagh and Destroyer activated was awesome, Im thinking of trying Armor of Gork + Smelly 'Un. The damage is "good enough" without Destroyer, unless you play something like Archaon I guess, but in that case you probably want to destroy the rest of his army anyways. 

Alternatively I could go Arcane Tome on a Warchanter for Mystic Shield, but gonna give Smelly 'Un a try.

Edited September 21, 2021 by Kasper

[Malakree]

11 minutes ago, Kasper said:

I dont see myself not playing 2 MKs in this edition in Ironjawz, so by default I wont ever be below 5 drops since Warlord feels mandatory for such a list. At this point does it really matter if you are 5 drops or 10-11? Probably not, so might as well go double Warlord imo.

Im currently considering 1 MK as general with Hulking Brute trait + Mean'un mount trait + Amulet of Destiny artefact. Survivable with a bunch of impact hits when charging/Stomping.

I played the other with Fast 'Un and Destroyer and while the damage from that one turn with Waagh and Destroyer activated was awesome, Im thinking of trying Armor of Gork + Smelly 'Un. The damage is "good enough" without Destroyer, unless you play something like Archaon I guess, but in that case you probably want to destroy the rest of his army anyways. 

Alternatively I could go Arcane Tome on a Warchanter for Mystic Shield, but gonna give Smelly 'Un a try.

I'm actually going to go Amulet on my general and Fast Un + armour of gork on the 2nd to offset the -2 move penalty. Means when I want to go I can actually go.

Have a tournament coming up this weekend which has a bunch of really solid players, will give a report with my feelings on it afterwards. It's worth noting that unique characters aren't allowed there so it skews it somewhat.

[Kasper]

2 minutes ago, Malakree said:

I'm actually going to go Amulet on my general and Fast Un + armour of gork on the 2nd to offset the -2 move penalty. Means when I want to go I can actually go.

Have a tournament coming up this weekend which has a bunch of really solid players, will give a report with my feelings on it afterwards. It's worth noting that unique characters aren't allowed there so it skews it somewhat.

Im curious what direction you are going, wanna share or keep it tight due to the tournament coming up?

[Scurvydog]

26 minutes ago, Malakree said:

I'm actually going to go Amulet on my general and Fast Un + armour of gork on the 2nd to offset the -2 move penalty. Means when I want to go I can actually go.

Have a tournament coming up this weekend which has a bunch of really solid players, will give a report with my feelings on it afterwards. It's worth noting that unique characters aren't allowed there so it skews it somewhat.

That is a really nice environment for Ironjawz, no Teclis, Archaons, Kairos, Belakors.. What a wonderful world for a Waaagh  Interested in hearing the results from this though and the list performance. 

[Malakree]

11 minutes ago, Scurvydog said:

That is a really nice environment for Ironjawz, no Teclis, Archaons, Kairos, Belakors.. What a wonderful world for a Waaagh  Interested in hearing the results from this though and the list performance. 

To be honest I wish more tournaments would do it, most of the unique characters are cancerous atm. Gotrek, Morathi, Archaon etc.

Quote

Allegiance: Ironjawz
- Warclan: Ironsunz
- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
- Triumphs:

Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (480)*
- General
- Command Trait: Mighty Waaagh! Leader
- Artefact: Amulet of Destiny (Universal Artefact)
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (480)**
- Artefact: Armour of Gork
- Mount Trait: Fast 'Un
Orruk Warchanter (115)**
- Warbeat: Get 'Em Beat
Orruk Warchanter (115)**
- Warbeat: Fixin' Beat

Battleline
10 x Orruk Brutes (320)*
- Pair of Brute Choppas
- Reinforced x 1
10 x Orruk Ardboys (170)**
- Reinforced x 1
5 x Orruk Ardboys (85)*
5 x Orruk Ardboys (85)*

Units
3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (150)*
- Pig-iron Choppas

Core Battalions
*Battle Regiment
**Warlord

Total: 2000 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 2 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 133
Drops: 5

That's my list. Idea being that when I want to go I can have the 2 cabbages and the GG's rush forward and Waaagh! with the charge reroll. Gives me potentially 18" move on the GG's, 24" on the general, and 30" on the 2nd cabbage, all with charge reroll so I should have a pretty solid alphastrike if I need it. I get a ward save on both cabbages which is so tasty.

EDIT: Even Gordrakk can be pretty toxic in big waaagh! with 3 unleash hell triggers for a CP.

Spoiler

Allegiance: Big Waaagh!
- Grand Strategy:
- Triumphs:

Leaders
Gordrakk the Fist of Gork (560)

Battleline

Units
6 x Man-skewer Boltboyz (240)
- Reinforced x 1
6 x Man-skewer Boltboyz (240)
- Reinforced x 1
6 x Man-skewer Boltboyz (240)
- Reinforced x 1

Total: 1280 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 3 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 56
Drops: 4

Tell me that isn't some kind of dirty.

Edited September 21, 2021 by Malakree

[Malakree]

Spoiler

Allegiance: Big Waaagh!
- Grand Strategy:
- Triumphs:

Leaders
Gordrakk the Fist of Gork (560)
Orruk Warchanter (115)
- General
- Command Trait: Master of Magic
- Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)
- Lore of the Weird: Foot of Gork
Swampcalla Shaman with Pot-grot (105)
- Artefact: Mork's Eye Pebble
- Lore of the Swamp: Nasty Hex
Wurrgog Prophet (150)
- Artefact: Glowin' Tattooz
- Lore of the Savage Beast: Gorkamorka's War Cry
Wardokk (80)
- Lore of the Savage Beast: Gorkamorka's War Cry
Swampcalla Shaman with Pot-grot (105)
- Lore of the Swamp: Choking Mist

Battleline
10 x Savage Orruks (165)
- Chompas
10 x Savage Orruks (165)
- Chompas
10 x Savage Orruks (165)
- Chompas

Artillery
Beast-skewer Killbow (130)
Beast-skewer Killbow (130)
Beast-skewer Killbow (130)

Core Battalions
*Warlord
**Warlord

Additional Enhancements
Artefact
Artefact

Total: 2000 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 0 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 125
Drops: 12

Some notable inclusions.

• Triple killbow overwatch with potential to have gordrakk replace one if you just want number of shots (6 at 2+/3+/-1/1 is not shabbby)
• Foot of Gork with reroll for that warchanter. Especially nice once you hit that +1 to cast/unbind/dispell.
• Mork's eye pebble giving a 5++ ward save bubble for one enemy shooting phase. Great for if lumineth decides to try and gun down big G.
• Warchanter with rerollable foot of gork cast. Especially nice once you trigger that +1 to cast/unbind/dispel
• Nasty hex for when gotrek decides to be gotrek. 
• The +2 to ward save on the Wurrgog for a 3++ under the pebble or a 4++ native. Combine with the Mask for hilarity then heal up with both fixin beat and the wardokk before going for round 2!

[Kasper]

25 minutes ago, Malakree said:

To be honest I wish more tournaments would do it, most of the unique characters are cancerous atm. Gotrek, Morathi, Archaon etc.

That's my list. Idea being that when I want to go I can have the 2 cabbages and the GG's rush forward and Waaagh! with the charge reroll. Gives me potentially 18" move on the GG's, 24" on the general, and 30" on the 2nd cabbage, all with charge reroll so I should have a pretty solid alphastrike if I need it. I get a ward save on both cabbages which is so tasty.

EDIT: Even Gordrakk can be pretty toxic in big waaagh! with 3 unleash hell triggers for a CP.

  Reveal hidden contents

Allegiance: Big Waaagh!
- Grand Strategy:
- Triumphs:

Leaders
Gordrakk the Fist of Gork (560)

Battleline

Units
6 x Man-skewer Boltboyz (240)
- Reinforced x 1
6 x Man-skewer Boltboyz (240)
- Reinforced x 1
6 x Man-skewer Boltboyz (240)
- Reinforced x 1

Total: 1280 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 3 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 56
Drops: 4

Tell me that isn't some kind of dirty.

But does 5 drops really matter? I mean against the armies that you want to alpha/punish, they will likely be lower drops. I feel like 5 is too high a drop count to matter compared to getting Mystic Shield on one of your MKs or a 2nd mount trait.  

[Malakree]

3 minutes ago, Kasper said:

But does 5 drops really matter? I mean against the armies that you want to alpha/punish, they will likely be lower drops. I feel like 5 is too high a drop count to matter compared to getting Mystic Shield on one of your MKs or a 2nd mount trait.  

I mean, a lot of the ones I want to alphastrike are going to force me to go first...

Oh and I don't have the heroes for double warlord or command entourage. 

Edited September 21, 2021 by Malakree

[Kasper]

2 minutes ago, Malakree said:

I mean, a lot of the ones I want to alphastrike are going to force me to go first...

Oh and I don't have the heroes for double warlord or command entourage. 

Yeah the hero count is an issue. Thats why I took 2x MK, 3x Warchanter (tripple buff on 3 units that are also tripple MD'd) and 1 Weirdnob. My list is light on bodies for sure, but Im not sure you need a whole lot of bodies with 3 major threats in 2 MKs and 1 unit of 6 Pigs. When/if they die they should hopefully have traded or carved out a large portion of the opponent's units. Im tempted to split the 6 Pigs into 2x3 and keep 1 unit back for a bit of oomph if needed for the later turns once the 2 MKs and 3 Pigs have gone off to do their work.

[Scurvydog]

Similar to the previous list, I think this list here is pretty well optimized for 3.0 with 2 MKs, 6 Gruntas, a second wave of brutes and some ardboyz for objective grabbing and/or a bit of screening. Running IronSunz

The idea is as usual a terrifying alpha potential from very long distance, even if the opponent tries to flank, IronSun allow for counter charges, making it hard to lock down one thing without taking a massive counter punch. 

3 Huge threats with fast movement and a 2nd wave of brutes that can clean up most things left standing. 

The fast MK with destroyer should kill a Mega Gargant on average, with a monstrous 38 average damage against a 3+ save during Waagh and if he uses all out attack + finest hour. This should basically kill anything and trigger smashing and bashing, to really cripple the opponent.

Of course the usual weaknesses are present, such as poor reach, so armies with screens are as always a problem. Gotrek and Morathi are of course also a problem, as they are impossible to kill and will murder the relatively squishy Ironjawz.

Might not be 5/5 potential, but it any lists without the tools to deal with these guys will get bashed good...

 

Spoiler

Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (480)*
- General
- Boss Choppa and Rip-tooth fist
- Command Trait: Mighty Waaagh! Leader
- Artefact: Amulet of Destiny (Universal Artefact)
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (480)
- Boss Choppa and Rip-tooth fist
- Artefact: Destroyer
- Mount Trait: Fast 'Un
Orruk Warchanter (115)*
Orruk Warchanter (115)*
10 x Orruk Brutes (320)**
- Pair of Brute Choppas
6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (300)**
- Pig-iron Choppas
- Reinforced x 1
5 x Ardboyz(85)**
5 x Ardboyz (85)*
*Warlord
**Hunters of the Heartlands
Artefact

Total: 1980 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 1 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 124
Drops: 9

 

[dnusha]

I think Destroyer is good when you are FOR SURE have to activate Smashing and Bashing on that one unit of 10 brutes (on waagh turn) with 3A -3 -1(2) near that one expensive/important/multi wounds enemy unit while simultaneously also killing something important behind the enemy lines with MK.

- md charge brutes into position (yeah)

-md/fly MBMK far away to his target

-waagh- MBMK Destroyer -SnB- Brutes smash something near them into small pieces.

 

 

All out MW charge build is kinda random. Warlord Trait + Mount Trait + Bulk = d3  + d6 + 3(w/o degradation). AVG 8-9 wounds (not bad!), 12 at best, zero at worse(it's hard to not roll +2 though.) from your first charge. And 6-7 from subsequent stomps.(w/o charge) Only one monster can do a Stomp per turn.  Actually it doesn't look that bad. (warlord trait - we are probably gonna cast all out defence on MKs anyway, waagh charge rerolls - that may hurt but ok) (mount traits - no fast un or other un - bad) .  Kinda maybe it's gonna work with turn 1 gore gruntas charge for additional MWs, or maybe charge 1 target with two MKs one by one (well that sounds like a waste but). The only reliable way to free MK from combat is to kill everyone around it with other units. BUT IMAGINE HOW HILLARIOUS WOULD IT BE TO ONE SHOT NEW SC 8 WOUNDS BIG DADDY THAT FULLY HEALS HIMSELF EVERY TURN ON YOUR FIRST CHARGE.

 

[Ganigumo]

Destroyer had some use last edition as well, Sometimes you really want to make sure something dies in one activation (mega gargants are a good example).

[Kasper]

54 minutes ago, Scurvydog said:

Similar to the previous list, I think this list here is pretty well optimized for 3.0 with 2 MKs, 6 Gruntas, a second wave of brutes and some ardboyz for objective grabbing and/or a bit of screening. Running IronSunz

The idea is as usual a terrifying alpha potential from very long distance, even if the opponent tries to flank, IronSun allow for counter charges, making it hard to lock down one thing without taking a massive counter punch. 

3 Huge threats with fast movement and a 2nd wave of brutes that can clean up most things left standing. 

The fast MK with destroyer should kill a Mega Gargant on average, with a monstrous 38 average damage against a 3+ save during Waagh and if he uses all out attack + finest hour. This should basically kill anything and trigger smashing and bashing, to really cripple the opponent.

Of course the usual weaknesses are present, such as poor reach, so armies with screens are as always a problem. Gotrek and Morathi are of course also a problem, as they are impossible to kill and will murder the relatively squishy Ironjawz.

Might not be 5/5 potential, but it any lists without the tools to deal with these guys will get bashed good...

 

  Hide contents

Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (480)*
- General
- Boss Choppa and Rip-tooth fist
- Command Trait: Mighty Waaagh! Leader
- Artefact: Amulet of Destiny (Universal Artefact)
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (480)
- Boss Choppa and Rip-tooth fist
- Artefact: Destroyer
- Mount Trait: Fast 'Un
Orruk Warchanter (115)*
Orruk Warchanter (115)*
10 x Orruk Brutes (320)**
- Pair of Brute Choppas
6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (300)**
- Pig-iron Choppas
- Reinforced x 1
5 x Ardboyz(85)**
5 x Ardboyz (85)*
*Warlord
**Hunters of the Heartlands
Artefact

Total: 1980 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 1 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 124
Drops: 9

 

Very similar to what I posted. It just feels bad not to have both MKs and Pigs Warchanted.. Maybe 3 Warchanters is too greedy. I also do like the Weirdnob, if anything the threat of the teleport - Though I would likely cast Mystic Shield most times anyways. 

[Scurvydog]

3 hours ago, Kasper said:

Very similar to what I posted. It just feels bad not to have both MKs and Pigs Warchanted.. Maybe 3 Warchanters is too greedy. I also do like the Weirdnob, if anything the threat of the teleport - Though I would likely cast Mystic Shield most times anyways. 

Idea is to lead with warchanter on the "missile" Krusha to for sure murder the toughest thing possible, this is of course mostly against armies with little to no screens, which does happen sometimes. If there is no such clear target, this could be delayed a bit. Gruntas is a good target for a warchanter and highly efficient, you ideally want to at least trigger 2 smashing and bashing, so the tanky Krusha can manage without and still do some horrific damage by itself, they are still plenty scary, especially during waaagh just with the base warscroll stats.

Problem with the Weirdnob is just how unreliable it is, any half decent enemy caster will just make him a waste of points most of the time I think.

[Aelfric]

1 hour ago, Scurvydog said:

Problem with the Weirdnob is just how unreliable it is, any half decent enemy caster will just make him a waste of points most of the time I think.

I think I'm just going to take a Fungoid Cave-Shaman for Mystic Shield- better defense, chance of a CP each turn, 2 spells for one turn, all for 5 points more. 

[riddlesworth]

Enjoying the possibilities with double megaboss right now:

Mawkrusha and 2x pigs  get warchanter buffs, mighty destroyers into a flank for turn 1 to just be a "problem"

 

Foot megaboss (the general) with 2x brutes to mighty destroyers into the mid board, to own it and clear objectives.

Ard boyz to follow up, with footboss MD moves putting them where they need to be. Alternative is gutrippas being put there by hand of gork in big waagh

[Malakree]

1 hour ago, riddlesworth said:

Enjoying the possibilities with double megaboss right now:

Mawkrusha and 2x pigs  get warchanter buffs, mighty destroyers into a flank for turn 1 to just be a "problem"

 

Foot megaboss (the general) with 2x brutes to mighty destroyers into the mid board, to own it and clear objectives.

Ard boyz to follow up, with footboss MD moves putting them where they need to be. Alternative is gutrippas being put there by hand of gork in big waagh

One of the list ideas I had was 2x(mk+6pigs+3pigs)+warchanter in bloodtoofs. Combine with megabossy and you have 2 independent blocks which are both scary in their own right. With megabossy you can MD all 6 units in one turn giving you an unbelievable amount of mobility. There's also the massive alphastrike potential followed up by 4 charges from the pigs afterwards, honestly pretty fricking horrific.

Oh wow, hand of gork is just orruk. I automatically assumed it would be ironjawz only. That's got some pretty nasty implications with it, the thirty gutripperz with a killaboss on gnashtooth rushing up behind for the bs immunity. Welcome to turn 1, I hope you enjoy being stuck in your deployment zone!

Edited September 21, 2021 by Malakree

[riddlesworth]

50 minutes ago, Malakree said:

Oh wow, hand of gork is just orruk. I automatically assumed it would be ironjawz only. That's got some pretty nasty implications with it, the thirty gutripperz with a killaboss on gnashtooth rushing up behind for the bs immunity. Welcome to turn 1, I hope you enjoy being stuck in your deployment zone!

I did have a little double take reading it. Propa sneaky! 

I'm undecided on swampcalla or killaboss for backup. Running brutes in 5s means I only really need to inspiring presence the gutrippas. Needs testing. As does the "here's a mawkrusha with d6+3 stomp and 2 buffed units of pigs. Dela with them while I grab some points" and the "can't believe its not a wizard" megaboss on foot

[Kasper]

16 hours ago, Scurvydog said:

Idea is to lead with warchanter on the "missile" Krusha to for sure murder the toughest thing possible, this is of course mostly against armies with little to no screens, which does happen sometimes. If there is no such clear target, this could be delayed a bit. Gruntas is a good target for a warchanter and highly efficient, you ideally want to at least trigger 2 smashing and bashing, so the tanky Krusha can manage without and still do some horrific damage by itself, they are still plenty scary, especially during waaagh just with the base warscroll stats.

Problem with the Weirdnob is just how unreliable it is, any half decent enemy caster will just make him a waste of points most of the time I think.

Yeah my first couple of games with the new book I was alphing with 2 MKs and 6 Pigs in one unit, hence why I wanted all 3 buffed with Warchanter. I think this is the wrong play in majority of games.. Although it can be valuable to force your opponent back in his deployment zone for a turn or two. 

I used the same list (2 MK, 3 WC, 1 Weirdnob, 3x 5 Ardboyz, 6 Pigs in double Warlord) but decided to split the 6 Pigs into 2x3 this time against Morathi and 15 Bowsnakes. I went with Amulet on my General MK and then Gork + Fast 'Un as suggested by @Malakree, the third enhancement went to a Warchanter so he can buff Mystic Shield.

My opponent gave me first turn and I buffed 5 Ardboyz + 3 Pigs + MK with Fast 'Un, then tripple moved the MK (got Mystic Shield) and double moved the Pigs on the front/right side of his castle. The 5 Ardboyz got teleported on the far left flank of his castle. I made all 3 charges and my MK easily killed 20 Witch Elves (screen), triggered Smashing and Bashing which allowed my Pigs to pile in 3" forward and then kill 18 out of 20 Witched Elves (so close!!!, the Pigs failed all 3 impact hits.. AND the MK failed his Stomp and I was a dum-dum and forgot the shooting on my MK, was too eager to charge). My Ardboyz went into 10 Witches but the ladies activated first due to lack of SnB, they killed 2 Ardboyz in return but the 3 buffed Ardboyz killed 6 Witch Elves in return. Obviously I rolled 6 on battleshock so only the Champion stood remaining..

This left him with basically nothing but 1 Medusa, 1 Hag, 15 Bow Snakes and then Morathi and Shadow Queen. All his shots and magic went into the 3 Pigs and it left 1 Pig remaining 1 wound. He didnt want to shoot it in the shooting phase with the 15 Bow Snakes because he wanted to use it to slingshot the Shadow Queen into my Maw Krusha. The Pig was basically standing between Shadow Queen and MK with the MK like 4" behind the Pig. He charged the Pig and couldnt reach far enough to get to the MK on the charge alone, so I activated Ironsunz CA which sent the MK flying forward into the 15 exposed Bow Snakes. That was game, he conceeded on the spot. 

Even if he had made a long enough charge to my MK, he literally had no screens now and the board was wide open for my remaining 3 Pigs or MK to destroy the 15 Bow Snakes at almost any given turn with double move or potentially a teleport (had Arcane terrain piece - We rolled for one side and then mirrored the effects on the other side).  

 

Fun fact: The GHB booklet is wrong, it says Unleash Hell can only be used in the enemy's charge phase - This is false. The Core Rules simply state that it can be used "in the charge phase", so charging something with Ironsunz mean they can Unleash Hell on you!

Scratch the above - I was made aware that since we get to countercharge at the END of the charge phase, a command ability that is used DURING the charge phase can not be used, so we can freely countercharge without suffering any damage!

 

Mental note: Not alphaing creates for a great and properly more controlled game for you. Clearing him from his screens is such a big thing while still keeping 2 big threats at home to be a clear-up crew. I should probably have sent the 3 Pigs and my general MK further up the board in a position to countercharge with Ironsunz CA in his following turns, but I was somewhat scared of facing a double turn. 

 

Thoughts on list: 2x3 Pigs certainly seems more versatile than 1 big blob even if you can do the fancy half-flower formation.

I cant really decide on the list - Im at 1950 so I have a triumph every game (99/100 properly) which will likely always be +1 wound triumph. This feels great on the MK with Gork artefact to limit odds of whiffing.

I have mixed feelings on the Weirdnob because its 50/50 on the Teleport but it does create a fear effect for the opponent and it leaves options later in the game to get into the enemy's territory or the good old teleport 12,5" away, MD 3" away and charge.

I get 3 enhancements which can unlock Arcane Tome because Mystic Shield is boss on the MKs. I guess I could swap the 3rd Warchanter for a Madcap Shaman  though, since it would also give me Mystic Shield. Then I can spend the artefact on something else or give the 2nd MK a mount trait like Smelly 'Un/Mean 'Un. 

Edited September 22, 2021 by Kasper

[dnusha]

4 hours ago, Kasper said:

Fun fact: The GHB booklet is wrong, it says Unleash Hell can only be used in the enemy's charge phase - This is false. The Core Rules simply state that it can be used "in the charge phase", so charging something with Ironsunz mean they can Unleash Hell on you!

I'm not sure about this. In Core Rules Command abilities are sorted by Phases. (in case of Unleash Hell with a note "You can use the following command abilities in the charge phase") On the other hand while Unleash Hell is under Charge Phase part in core rules it's description states that it can be used "after an enemy unit finishes a charge move."  In addition it's said that "The unit that receives the command can shoot in that phase".

Other CA usually have some indication of a phase when you can use them:

Rally - at the start of the hero phase.

At the Double - after you declare that a friendly unit will run. (you can only run in movement phase, right?)

Redeploy - in the enemy movement phase after an enemy unit finishes a normal move, run or retreat.

Forward to Victory - after you make a charge roll for a friendly unit.

Unleash Hell - after an enemy unit finishes a charge move. 

All-out-Attack - when you pick a friendly unit to shoot in your shooting phase or fight in the combat phase (actually this command is under 'ATTACKING' part of the rules)

All-out-Defence - when a friendly unit is picked as the target of an attack in the shooting or combat phase. (also under ATTACKING)

Inspiring Presence - at the start of the battleshock phase.

 

From what it looks like i don't see why Unleash Hell won't be working in other phases (at least from the wording of it) Ah at least they can't Redeploy if someone charges with MD. Ironsuns ability wording is "at the end of enemy charge phase". So he charges first with all of his units and then we can charge.  Thanks for battle report!

 

UPD. I actually think this is maybe going to be FAQed? Rules for Phases and Command abilities : "A model cannot issue more than 1 command in the same phase and a unit cannot receive more than 1 command in the same phase. In addition, you cannot use the same command ability more than once in the same phase (even for different units)." Isn't it too much unleash hell shooting in different phases for one turn? (even for 2-3 cp) 

 

 

Edited September 22, 2021 by dnusha

[Kasper]

1 hour ago, dnusha said:

'm not sure about this. In Core Rules Command abilities are sorted by Phases. (in case of Unleash Hell with a note "You can use the following command abilities in the charge phase") On the other hand while Unleash Hell is under Charge Phase part in core rules it's description states that it can be used "after an enemy unit finishes a charge move."  In addition it's said that "The unit that receives the command can shoot in that phase".

The last part of 1.6.1 explains why you cant use Unleash Hell on a unit that is charging with the Ironsunz command ability. 

[Malakree]

Also worth noting that the person whose turn it is does all their end of turn stuff first. It means that Ironsunz charge ability is the last thing that happens in the round with no response possible.

[dnusha]

1 hour ago, Kasper said:

The last part of 1.6.1 explains why you cant use Unleash Hell on a unit that is charging with the Ironsunz command ability. 

Right, so basically Unleash Hell not specifies when it happens(means you can't use it in the end of the phase), while ironsunz ability specifies(in the end of the phase) and that means it can't be countered by unleash hell?

 

"Abilities can only be used in the phase specified in their rules."  UH only wording is "that phase" does it  mean any phase when enemy unit ended it's charge within 9' from that unit or "that phase" is actually a chrage phase. 

 

Spoiler

Also maybe if Unleash Hell rules aren't specify it's phase maybe it shouldn't even work!!Here we go.We defeated UH boyz. Checkmate Luminets! 

 

Edited September 22, 2021 by dnusha