Lhw Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 So you have changed your mind @Isotop? Think it does require LoS? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lhw Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 It's a good point, @Isotop, as the Medusa has the same wording - it mentions visibility. I just think that purely because they do mention it, doesn't change the fact that the core rules now say that missile weapons need line of sight, which is what this is. I'm a Sylvaneth player, so it's not as if I have an agenda here. I love the idea of sitting Drycha in woods spamming out mortals, but just as it is, I don't see any evidence suggesting her missile weapon ignores the core rules for missile weapons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twh30 Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 Maybe could see this as an attempt to balance it for our opponents for los. Would be slight weird that blocks everyone else’s missile weoponsand not ours. Possibly pushing us to play the army in certain ways? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romhi Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 My last addition and a some more food for thought would be a quote from the core book itself: "Most warscrolls include one or more abilities that can be used by the warscroll’s models during a game of Warhammer Age of Sigmar. Abilities take precedence over the core rules." (Core Book, pg.:238) This was the leading argument at the start of my latest tournament. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lhw Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 4 minutes ago, romhi said: My last addition and a some more food for thought would be a quote from the core book itself: "Most warscrolls include one or more abilities that can be used by the warscroll’s models during a game of Warhammer Age of Sigmar. Abilities take precedence over the core rules." (Core Book, pg.:238) This was the leading argument at the start of my latest tournament. Where in Drycha's rules does it say you ignore LoS? That would be the ability taking precedence. Just because it doesn't mention something, doesn't mean it ignores it, if it is in the core rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romhi Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 4 minutes ago, Lhw said: Where in Drycha's rules does it say you ignore LoS? That would be the ability taking precedence. Just because it doesn't mention something, doesn't mean it ignores it, if it is in the core rules. Nowhere, and there is not a word about it requiring any visibility either. That is my point. It is vague enough to warrant discussion, which brings me back to my very original advice: discuss it with your judge/friend/opponent and come to an understanding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaylethia Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 34 minutes ago, Lhw said: Where in Drycha's rules does it say you ignore LoS? That would be the ability taking precedence. Just because it doesn't mention something, doesn't mean it ignores it, if it is in the core rules. I'd argue that the ability takes precedence, since it changes the entire attack sequence and doesn't select targets or pick units. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lhw Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 @Kaylethia equally the ability doesn't specify that it doesn't need Line of Sight. And it is a missile weapon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaylethia Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 @Lhw And the attack sequence (both shooting and melee) state that you need to have line of sight to the target unit. But I'm going with @romhi, until there's an FAQ, it up to talking about it with your TO, judge or opponent and working something out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cblackaus Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 Some help please ... with Dreadwood subterfuge rule do you rollnfor it before or after the choice is made for who takes first turn. on the weekend, I played my first ever AoS tournament and was always used to going first (I have a 2 drop dreadwood lost). But I played a 1 drop nurgle list and opponent said I had to roll for subterfuge and then make movements and then he would decide if it was me or him that took the first turn. FWIW I cam 7/74 and had a great time :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aezeal Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 11 hours ago, Lhw said: @romhi the core rules say: "MISSILE WEAPONS In order to attack with a missile weapon, the model using the weapon must be in range of the target unit (i.e. within the maximum distance, in inches, of the Range listed for the weapon making the attack), and the target unit must be visible to the model with the weapon" It's listed as a missile weapon on Drycha's profile. It may have been played previously as not needing LoS, but I guess it came up less then? Now, with Wyldwoods rules, probs more likely to happen. I really think it clearly needs LoS. No. The ability just says all units for flitterfuries there is no disclaimer that it's otherwise.. it's an AoS ability. Even for squirmlings I don't think line of sight is needed myself it says pick a unit and that is all that is relevant. 10 hours ago, Isotop said: What would be your reaction to my Thundertusk argument? (no offense) My reaction to that argument would that you are right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lhw Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 7 minutes ago, Aezeal said: No. The ability just says all units for flitterfuries there is no disclaimer that it's otherwise.. it's an AoS ability. Even for squirmlings I don't think line of sight is needed myself it says pick a unit and that is all that is relevant. My reaction to that argument would that you are right. It's not an ability. It's a missile weapon. It's listed under her profile as a missile weapon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanoss Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 Subterfuge says you roll a dice at the START of the First Battle Round. Therefore, who takes the First Battle Round must be decided first. So, even if a Dreadwood player doesn’t get to decide who gets first turn, he/she can still control how their stratagems will affect the first turn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aezeal Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 1 hour ago, Lhw said: It's not an ability. It's a missile weapon. It's listed under her profile as a missile weapon. It's a missle weapon with a shooting attack... that activates as an ability which has that wording. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LennyB Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 @Aezeal that is how I interpret it as well, but wasn't sure. Glad (well maybe that's a bad word, rather it be clear) to see I'm not the only one confused by this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoshiya Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 Based on the wording of the Core Rules I'd almost say that the current correct way to play is that Drycha can only shoot if she has line of sight to one unit in range (in order to be able to use a missile attack). Then once the attack starts she activates the ability which simply states all units in range so she would hit all of them. So she would need to see one unit but can hit all which is just a weird way of doing things and why GW really needs to realise that you can't make a new edition and hope for all warscrolls to just keep making sense. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isotop Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 (edited) 20 hours ago, Lanoss said: Subterfuge says you roll a dice at the START of the First Battle Round. Therefore, who takes the First Battle Round must be decided first. So, even if a Dreadwood player doesn’t get to decide who gets first turn, he/she can still control how their stratagems will affect the first turn This is not correct. A player can not "take the first battle round", a player can only take the first turn of the (first) battle round. The Core Rules state: "At the start of each battle round, the players must roll off, and the winner decides who takes the first turn [...] if it is the first battle round, the player that finished setting up their army first chooses who has the first turn." (https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Rulesheets/ENG_AoSSW_Rules_booklet_web.pdf) Subterfuge states: "Roll a dice at the start of the first battle round [...]" (Sylvaneth Battletome, p.126) So, it seems, both effects (deciding who goes first and possible Subterfuge moves/redeployment) happen at the same time. I think in this case players have to determine randomly which effect will happen first. There is a ruling in the Core Rules stating that you roll-off for simultaneous "pre-battle abilities" (and the winner decides what happens first). But this ruling has no influence on the Subterfuge-topic, since it is not a pre-battle ability. @Cblackaus hope I could help Edited October 2, 2018 by Isotop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ebrick Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 I was playing dread wood and doing well, but I think gnarlroot with all the spells is way more powerfull and balanced. Let me know what you guys think. Alarielle, throne of vines, 600 points I can summon kurnoth hunters with the right weapon choice for the match, or 20 dryads. Worth every point. Tree lord ancient, regrowth, with gnarled warrior and oaken armor. Branchwraith 1, ranu lamentiri, verdent blessing Branchwraith 2, throne of vines Branchwych, throne of vines, crown on a 5+ to get command point back, Knight Incantor, with everblaze comet, i have found he is totally worth the points. And autodispel comes in very handy. 5 spit-revants 5 tree-revants 20 dryads Souls snare shackles, quicksilver swords, everblaze comet House hold and gnarlroot, An even 2000pts, and 1 drop I'm either summoning dryads with +1 cast or +D3 cast so very reliable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanoss Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 Yes. Sorry @Isotop I mistyped. I meant to imply First Turn Of First Battle Round. Which, since Dreadwood is a One drop we can choose who goes first. So I believe the order would go - Deploy. Dreadwood One drop. Opponent more than one drop. Dreadwood player finishes deploying first - Dreadwood player chooses to go first. - Rolls D3 stratagems OR - Deploy. Opponent drops One drop first. Dreadwood drops. Opponent finishes deploying first - Opponent chooses to go first - Dreadwood rolls D3 stratagems Hope that clears up the order of things Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isotop Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 3 minutes ago, Lanoss said: Yes. Sorry @Isotop I mistyped. I meant to imply First Turn Of First Battle Round. Which, since Dreadwood is a One drop we can choose who goes first. So I believe the order would go - Deploy. Dreadwood One drop. Opponent more than one drop. Dreadwood player finishes deploying first - Dreadwood player chooses to go first. - Rolls D3 stratagems OR - Deploy. Opponent drops One drop first. Dreadwood drops. Opponent finishes deploying first - Opponent chooses to go first - Dreadwood rolls D3 stratagems Hope that clears up the order of things The Problem is: how do we determine what happens first? (Opponent) choosing who takes first turn or Dreadwood Subterfuge abilities? I would say flip a coin, but as far as I know there is no set method from GW's side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milo Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 6 hours ago, Ebrick said: I was playing dread wood and doing well, but I think gnarlroot with all the spells is way more powerfull and balanced. Let me know what you guys think. Alarielle, throne of vines, 600 points I can summon kurnoth hunters with the right weapon choice for the match, or 20 dryads. Worth every point. Tree lord ancient, regrowth, with gnarled warrior and oaken armor. Branchwraith 1, ranu lamentiri, verdent blessing Branchwraith 2, throne of vines Branchwych, throne of vines, crown on a 5+ to get command point back, Knight Incantor, with everblaze comet, i have found he is totally worth the points. And autodispel comes in very handy. 5 spit-revants 5 tree-revants 20 dryads Souls snare shackles, quicksilver swords, everblaze comet House hold and gnarlroot, An even 2000pts, and 1 drop I'm either summoning dryads with +1 cast or +D3 cast so very reliable. Hello, i never use a knight incantor in my Sylvaneth list, i’m curious, how you play it? And you use the comet the first turn? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milo Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 Hello everybody, i have a question, in a match against Nurgle with this list: Treelord Ancient Branchwraith Branchwhich 1x5 Tree Revenants 1x20 Dryads 1x20 Dryads 1x3 Kurnoth with Schytes Houshold+Gnarloot is better take in Alarielle (Who summon other 3 Kurnoths) or Durthu and 3 Kurnoth? Thank you!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ebrick Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 29 minutes ago, Milo said: Hello, i never use a knight incantor in my Sylvaneth list, i’m curious, how you play it? And you use the comet the first turn? I use it every turn and use one of the 12 spell slots to unbind it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 Very quick question, do the Sylvaneth in the the "Alliance of Wood and Sea" Idoneth Warscroll Battalion use up the "allies" points (usually about 400) or not? My gut feeling is not as the Faction at the top is listed as Idoneth Deepkin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ojay180 Posted October 5, 2018 Share Posted October 5, 2018 On 10/3/2018 at 9:04 PM, Charlo said: Very quick question, do the Sylvaneth in the the "Alliance of Wood and Sea" Idoneth Warscroll Battalion use up the "allies" points (usually about 400) or not? My gut feeling is not as the Faction at the top is listed as Idoneth Deepkin. Any factions units used in another factions battalion (as you’ve described) do not use up the allies allowance so you would still have 400 pts of allies available. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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