Rachmani Posted June 18, 2021 Share Posted June 18, 2021 6 hours ago, GrandAdmiralAutumn said: What do you guys think? I think they might change it to „Monster“ instead of behemoth thanks to that idea. >.< Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratigo Posted June 18, 2021 Share Posted June 18, 2021 1 hour ago, Rachmani said: I think they might change it to „Monster“ instead of behemoth thanks to that idea. >.< I’d be fine if they also changed the artillery one to war machine instead of artillery Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beliman Posted June 18, 2021 Share Posted June 18, 2021 It It seems that we can't use Fly High if our boats are in melee range. What do you think ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratigo Posted June 18, 2021 Share Posted June 18, 2021 15 minutes ago, Beliman said: It It seems that we can't use Fly High if our boats are in melee range. What do you think ? There's also a line that says clearly that it can retreat and disengage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beliman Posted June 18, 2021 Share Posted June 18, 2021 4 minutes ago, stratigo said: There's also a line that says clearly that it can retreat and disengage. But I don't want to Retreat or Disengage, I want to Fly high within 3"!! /sadface Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratigo Posted June 18, 2021 Share Posted June 18, 2021 15 minutes ago, Beliman said: But I don't want to Retreat or Disengage, I want to Fly high within 3"!! /sadface It can retreat and disengage after you declare it will fly high. Least how I read that line there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwydion Posted June 18, 2021 Share Posted June 18, 2021 Heh. I posted about that in this thread back on Tuesday and no one commented. I was surprised it didn't get more attention. It's not the Zilfin move, though. It's different in some very significant ways. It happens after deployment, not during your hero phase. Which means you're leaving your behind hanging out in the breeze if you try to use it too offensively and end up not going first. The Zilfin move is much lower risk. Still, it's an amazing ability for getting into early positions for denying objectives or battle tactics. I think your list could work out quite well so long as there aren't too many amazing one-drop lists in your meta. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwydion Posted June 18, 2021 Share Posted June 18, 2021 (edited) Derp. Edited June 18, 2021 by Gwydion Double post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boar Posted June 18, 2021 Share Posted June 18, 2021 1 hour ago, Beliman said: It It seems that we can't use Fly High if our boats are in melee range. What do you think ? Waiting for launch day/whenever FAQs etc. It was actually FAQed in 2.0 as wording isn't the best for this edition or previous honestly 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwydion Posted June 18, 2021 Share Posted June 18, 2021 There is another thing that came up when I was discussing competitive builds with one of my friends the other day. The new Battle Tactics system encourages you to not table your opponent at the earliest possible opportunity. Because if you do that, you're unable to farm points off of their stuff dying at the right time over the whole course of the game. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratigo Posted June 18, 2021 Share Posted June 18, 2021 5 minutes ago, Gwydion said: There is another thing that came up when I was discussing competitive builds with one of my friends the other day. The new Battle Tactics system encourages you to not table your opponent at the earliest possible opportunity. Because if you do that, you're unable to farm points off of their stuff dying at the right time over the whole course of the game. A win is a win and most tourneys count a tabling as max points Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badlander86 Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 On 6/18/2021 at 4:56 AM, Arzalyn said: KO points from the GHB 2021 (no changes in unit size or roles): Arkanauts 100 Frigate 250 Ironclad 490 Khemist 90 Navigator 95 Admiral 125 Thundrik 150 Brokk 255 Endrinmaster with Dirigible 190 Endrinmaster 105 Endrinriggers 120 Gunhauler 155 Thunderers 135 Skywardens 115 No points for Dagnai Holdenstock? Or does it fall under Cities of Sigmar? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakithe Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 (edited) Derp Edited June 19, 2021 by Malakithe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakithe Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 19 hours ago, Beliman said: It It seems that we can't use Fly High if our boats are in melee range. What do you think ? Book rules always supersede core rules so these new movement rules wont/dont apply Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bjørn Gunnerson Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 12 minutes ago, Malakithe said: Book rules always supersede core rules so these new movement rules wont/dont apply The thing is that the book rules require you to be able to make a normal move by saying INSTEAD. You cannot make a normal move in three inches per core rules so you can’t fulfill the instead of a normal move requirement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beliman Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 6 minutes ago, Malakithe said: Book rules always supersede core rules so these new movement rules wont/dont apply I agree, but only if they are contradictory. In this case, I don't see any contradiction. The Fly High rule clearly states that "Instead of a Normal Move...", does that means that you should be allowed to make that Normal Move to use Fly High? If I don't need to be allowed to make a Normal Move, can I use Fly High in the Charge, Shooting, Melee, etc.. phase? I'm pretty sure that we can't, so what's the deal with that. "It can retreat or disengage..." is pointless in Fly High description because this moves don't have anything to do with Fly High, FAQs clearly states Fly High is just Set-Up (you can't mix them, you use Fly High or a Normal Move). I still think that we can use Fly High within 3",and I've got an idea to support that (KO FAQs), but it contradicts other armies FAQs so I'm not so sure... /facepalm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratigo Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 14 minutes ago, Beliman said: I agree, but only if they are contradictory. In this case, I don't see any contradiction. The Fly High rule clearly states that "Instead of a Normal Move...", does that means that you should be allowed to make that Normal Move to use Fly High? If I don't need to be allowed to make a Normal Move, can I use Fly High in the Charge, Shooting, Melee, etc.. phase? I'm pretty sure that we can't, so what's the deal with that. "It can retreat or disengage..." is pointless in Fly High description because this moves don't have anything to do with Fly High, FAQs clearly states Fly High is just Set-Up (you can't mix them, you use Fly High or a Normal Move). I still think that we can use Fly High within 3",and I've got an idea to support that (KO FAQs), but it contradicts other armies FAQs so I'm not so sure... /facepalm It's only pointless if you decide it is, considering the wording is utterly unclear and open to interpretation in reading. When it says you can retreat and disengage, to me, it means literally that. Tis the words as written. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beliman Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 (edited) 18 minutes ago, stratigo said: It's only pointless if you decide it is, considering the wording is utterly unclear and open to interpretation in reading. When it says you can retreat and disengage, to me, it means literally that. Tis the words as written. But I didn't decide that!! Quote In your movement phase, you can pick 1 friendly unit that is more than 3" from all enemy units and declare that it will make a normal move or that it will run, or you can pick 1 friendly unit that is within 3" of an enemy unit and declare that it will retreat. So, we have 3 types of Moves: Normal Move, Run and Retreat (Disengage is a Retreat move with some bonus added). Fly High is a Set-Up. And we even have FAQs that they are not linked with other abilities: Quote Q: Some abilities allow you to remove a unit from the battlefield and set it up again, and say that this ‘counts as their move for the movement phase’ (or words to that effect). Do these units count as having made a move for the purposes of any other rules or abilities? A: No, it simply restricts them from making a move later on. So, they are all diferent things. You can't mix a bit of a Normal Move or a Set-Up. Or mix Disengage and a Normal Move. Or an ability that Set-Up one of your units and Disengage. Fly High's description states that you can Disengage and Retreat, and it's 100% true if you are within 3" of the enemy, but that doesn't allow you to mix all this Moves.... unless Fly High turns to be a Normal Move (like Disengage is a Retreat). Edited June 19, 2021 by Beliman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratigo Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 1 minute ago, Beliman said: But I didn't decide that!! So, we have 3 types of Moves: Normal Move, Run and Retreat (Disengage is a Retreat move with some bonus added). Fly High is a Set-Up. And we even have FAQs that they are not linked with other abilities: So, they are all diferent things. You can't mix a bit of a Normal Move or a Set-Up. Or mix Disengage and a Normal Move. Or an ability that Set-Up one of your units and Disengage. Fly High's description states that you can Disengage and Retreat, and it's 100% true if you are within 3" of the enemy, but that doesn't allow you to mix all this Moves.... unless Fly High turns to be a Normal Move (like Disengage is a Retreat). Except it says clearly that a fly high can disengage and retreat. So... I'm going to read that literally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beliman Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 3 minutes ago, stratigo said: Except it says clearly that a fly high can disengage and retreat. So... I'm going to read that literally. The description talks about what the model can do: Quote It (This model) can retreat and disengage. It's true, your skyvessel can retreat and disengage (if you within 3"). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratigo Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Beliman said: The description talks about what the model can do: It's true, your skyvessel can retreat and disengage (if you within 3"). Or It(fly high). Welcome to the english language. rules writers should avoid indefinite pronouns. Edited June 19, 2021 by stratigo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakithe Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 I think the 'it can retreat and disengage' part is more important then we think here. Why include that part at all if its a totally different thing? Including it implies that is part of Fly High in some manner. So Fly High allows you to retreat and disengage? So if someone is within 3" you cant use Fly High which is also considered retreating and disengaging? Thats how it reads to me at least...huh...I just contradicted and confused myself when I said it out loud...ima sit this one out till a FAQ lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beliman Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 2 hours ago, Malakithe said: I think the 'it can retreat and disengage' part is more important then we think here. Why include that part at all if its a totally different thing? Including it implies that is part of Fly High in some manner. So Fly High allows you to retreat and disengage? So if someone is within 3" you cant use Fly High which is also considered retreating and disengaging? Thats how it reads to me at least...huh...I just contradicted and confused myself when I said it out loud...ima sit this one out till a FAQ lol That's how High Fly should have been since the begining! Even FAQs says that using Fly High is not counted as a retreat move... then why put it on the descriptions!! Quote Q: If I use the ‘Fly High’ ability with a Skyvessel that is within 3" of an enemy unit, does that count as a retreat move? A: No. Common GW, that's so confusing!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zappgrot Posted June 20, 2021 Share Posted June 20, 2021 On 6/18/2021 at 7:08 PM, Gwydion said: There is another thing that came up when I was discussing competitive builds with one of my friends the other day. The new Battle Tactics system encourages you to not table your opponent at the earliest possible opportunity. Because if you do that, you're unable to farm points off of their stuff dying at the right time over the whole course of the game. Yea an neither can they. You jsut need 1 more point not 5. Killing them is always a good plan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakithe Posted June 20, 2021 Share Posted June 20, 2021 11 hours ago, Beliman said: That's how High Fly should have been since the begining! Even FAQs says that using Fly High is not counted as a retreat move... then why put it on the descriptions!! Common GW, that's so confusing!!! Yeah that makes no sense at all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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