Kramer Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 On 7/22/2019 at 8:48 PM, Chumphammer said: The problem you have with Executioners is: 1: They will not get the buffs from Prayers or Witch Brew 2: They will not get the buffs from Cauldron (shield and leadership) and or the ward save. 3: Exe's have a 1 inch reach and no rend Now you dont need 20 snakes, thats just something I am loving to use So, basically you are paying 380pts for a unit thats isnt very good compared to anything else the book can offer (minus maybe bow snakes) As someone who played darkling covens a lot until a year ago: 1. They don’t need offensive buffs if your taking them for mortal wounds. A unit of then should get all in and average 7 mw. 5 blood sisters, while 20 pts cheaper, only does 2,5 mortals. But I’d don’t know how you buff them up. 2. Absolutely true still 10 wounds on a four up vs 10 on a 5 up. But the lack of protecting them (except for mystic shield of course) really hurts them. 3. No rend doesn’t really matter if your taking them solely for the mortal wounds. Every other wound they deal is a bonus in my view. Now the 1” reach is why I would advice @Kaleun on min squads. You get an extra champion attack. Some extra mobility. Forces you opponent to split attacks. And you can still charge the same thing if need be. All in all I think they are pretty good allies but I do also agree if you have the buffs to spare to but on the blood sisters they will do better. If your core is 2 big units of witches and all buffs go there... executioners will still perform 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chumphammer Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 (edited) WiP on my DoK A hag Queen, 10 WE, 5 Snakes, 10 SoS and 5 Heartrenders done so far. Just gotta do another 10 SoS, 5 heartrenders, 20 WE, Medusa, HAg Queen, Slaughterqueen on Cauldron and 15 snakes.....erg Edited July 26, 2019 by Chumphammer 4 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucentia Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 In relation to the Blood Sisters versus Executioners discussion: Hagg Nar Blood Sisters re-rolling hits with Catechism of Murder can pull out a surprising volume of mortal wounds, even from a 5 model unit, but of course it is swingier than the Executioners output. But for me the real value of Blood Sisters is pairing with Mindrazor for that sometimes crucial -2 rend versus high armour, high wound profile targets that you cannot crack with Witch Aelves or a dribbling of mortal wounds. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaleun Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 ok we should compare buffed up Blood Sisters with the Executioners. Imagine you had an army core with 30 Witches, 2x10 Sisters of Slaughter and a big unit of Blood Sister Snakeladys. Support units are a Cauldron, 2 Hag Queens and a Medusa. Which Buffs would you put on the Blood Sisters and which buffs go to the Witch Elve unit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chumphammer Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 5 hours ago, Kaleun said: ok we should compare buffed up Blood Sisters with the Executioners. Imagine you had an army core with 30 Witches, 2x10 Sisters of Slaughter and a big unit of Blood Sister Snakeladys. Support units are a Cauldron, 2 Hag Queens and a Medusa. Which Buffs would you put on the Blood Sisters and which buffs go to the Witch Elve unit? lol that is my army! Temple: Hagg NarRealm: GhurSlaughterqueen on Cauldron - GeneralGryph-feather charm, Blessings of khaine, Devoted Disciples,Bloodwrack Medusa Mind Razor, ShadowstoneHag QueenCatechisms of murderHag Queen Sacrament of blood30 Witch Aelves (buckler)10 sisters of slaughter10 sisters of slaughter20 Blood Sisters5 Khinerai HeartRenders5 Khinerai HeartRendersSlaughter Troupe SoS run naked unless I need them to perform. WE and Snakes get witch Brew, as SQ holds back a bit for buffs and only gets into combat when she really needs to I usually put Catachism and Mind Razor on the Snakes, and sacrament depending who needs it more that turn, but usually the witch aelves The snakes are my solid unit and can take a beating, so depending what the enemy is targetting, Blessing will usually go on the snakes. I like to try and engage with the snakes. Sometimes I will throw everything onto the witch aelves and throw them in to do as much damage as they can do, holding out till wiped out due to Witch Brew, then cleaning up with the snakes. The snake unit has never failed yet. WE have been wiped out twice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chumphammer Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 Tournament Question Topic: Keeping an eye on top DoK, it seems every list has Morathi. This inc ETC lists. Does this mean Morathi is a must to be highly competitive? or is she just a crutch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickFlair Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 9 hours ago, Chumphammer said: lol that is my army! Temple: Hagg NarRealm: GhurSlaughterqueen on Cauldron - GeneralGryph-feather charm, Blessings of khaine, Devoted Disciples,Bloodwrack Medusa Mind Razor, ShadowstoneHag QueenCatechisms of murderHag Queen Sacrament of blood30 Witch Aelves (buckler)10 sisters of slaughter10 sisters of slaughter20 Blood Sisters5 Khinerai HeartRenders5 Khinerai HeartRendersSlaughter Troupe SoS run naked unless I need them to perform. WE and Snakes get witch Brew, as SQ holds back a bit for buffs and only gets into combat when she really needs to I usually put Catachism and Mind Razor on the Snakes, and sacrament depending who needs it more that turn, but usually the witch aelves The snakes are my solid unit and can take a beating, so depending what the enemy is targetting, Blessing will usually go on the snakes. I like to try and engage with the snakes. Sometimes I will throw everything onto the witch aelves and throw them in to do as much damage as they can do, holding out till wiped out due to Witch Brew, then cleaning up with the snakes. The snake unit has never failed yet. WE have been wiped out twice I ran a modified version of this list this weekend. I only have 5 heartrenders, so I added 5 doomfires with the withering and took the extra command point to be at 1970pts. The one major downfall is not having the second artefact on the medusa, which could have helped significantly with casting of mindrazor, I missed by one a few times when rolling for it. As for who got which buffs, that depended on where my opponent places some drops. Sometimes it was the snakes with Catachism, other times, it was the WE. Overall, I went 2-3. I would like to point out that is was the first time I played this list at all, and the first real time I have used SoS since the battletome dropped. I am confident that I could have gone 3-2 if I would have deployed better, and possibly 4-1 if better deployed and slightly more lucky with buff rolls. I was about 50/50 for prayers throughout the weekend, so it was a little difficult. 7 hours ago, Chumphammer said: Tournament Question Topic: Keeping an eye on top DoK, it seems every list has Morathi. This inc ETC lists. Does this mean Morathi is a must to be highly competitive? or is she just a crutch The top DOK lists this weekend all had Morathi. I think her Sorceress Supreme ability shines here. The double of spell distances means you can hang her back and drop spells all over the board, this is especially useful if you are playing in a specific realm like Chamon with and Rule of Burning Iron, only really useful against hordes. The ability to attempt 3 spells and unbind 2 is huge if you don't have other magic support. Once you get past the early rounds, then you can transform her and push her up to add some combat support if needed. These are just my thoughts and I am hardly a top tier player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VorpalPoolNoodle Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 Looks like my Morathi is headed global for Everchosen! I won't win but she'll be there to represent the DoK! 7 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Blade Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 (edited) On 7/26/2019 at 2:17 PM, Chumphammer said: WiP on my DoK A hag Queen, 10 WE, 5 Snakes, 10 SoS and 5 Heartrenders done so far. Just gotta do another 10 SoS, 5 heartrenders, 20 WE, Medusa, HAg Queen, Slaughterqueen on Cauldron and 15 snakes.....erg Love the pink scales. Is that done with a glaze over a light base color? @VorpalPoolNoodle I think you convinced me to go with Khalibron scheme after seeing this blue on her. Also really dig your take on her "shadow metal" wings and crown. Thanks for representing our faction! Edited July 30, 2019 by Black Blade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VorpalPoolNoodle Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Black Blade said: Love the pink scales. Is that done with a glaze over a light base color? @VorpalPoolNoodle I think you convinced me to go with Khalibron scheme after seeing this blue on her. Also really dig your take on her "shadow metal" wings and crown. Thanks for representing our faction! Thanks, though technically it's not so much Khailebron as Frozen inspired! The wings are actually ice wings (check the photo a page back for a better look) If she were not Morathi, she would have blonde hair and there would be snow around her, like my hag queens: Edited July 30, 2019 by VorpalPoolNoodle 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Blade Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 21 hours ago, Chumphammer said: Tournament Question Topic: Keeping an eye on top DoK, it seems every list has Morathi. This inc ETC lists. Does this mean Morathi is a must to be highly competitive? or is she just a crutch I don't think she is a crutch so much as the only option for magic competing in the magic meta. Our wizards are kinda pricy and our only access to dispels outside of the one Slaughter Queen you might take. She comes with 3 casts and 2 dispels in her human sized form. Plus she has utility for holding hero objectives since she is limited to 3 wounds at a time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chumphammer Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 43 minutes ago, Black Blade said: I don't think she is a crutch so much as the only option for magic competing in the magic meta. Our wizards are kinda pricy and our only access to dispels outside of the one Slaughter Queen you might take. She comes with 3 casts and 2 dispels in her human sized form. Plus she has utility for holding hero objectives since she is limited to 3 wounds at a time. But pretty much every game I have seen, people just transform her turn 1, so makes the magic side not as important Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucentia Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 Yeah, in my eye whilst her magic is potentially valuable it is a lot of points to spend for a trickling of long-ranged mortal wounds. The real value for me is that she is one of the truly resilient pieces in the DoK book (and one of the most resilient pieces in the game, to be fair.) You can throw her into a buffed up unit of Death Frenzy Plague Monks and she won't care, or stall a hammer unit for a couple of turns while you get in position. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chumphammer Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Black Blade said: Love the pink scales. Is that done with a glaze over a light base color? @VorpalPoolNoodle I think you convinced me to go with Khalibron scheme after seeing this blue on her. Also really dig your take on her "shadow metal" wings and crown. Thanks for representing our faction! Painting was: Undercoat: Wraithbone Hair: Apothacary white Skin: 2 drops medium to 3 drops Guillimum flesh Armour: Gehennas gold with a top coat of nazdreg yellow Front scales and tabards: Shyish purple Side scales and WE boots: Volpus Pink Back Scale: Blood Angels Red Weapons: Black Templar with Leadbelcher drybrush I then drybrush highlighted with Cermite white Basing is all from greenstuff world. I had a load of stuff I planned to use for the high elves but never did. Bases have sections of greenstuff rolled with elven ruins, then static grass, tuffs and leaf litter (some still to get added) I basically looked at the models on the table and thought that the most thing you see is hair and bases, so wanted them to look good lol Edited July 30, 2019 by Chumphammer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chumphammer Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 3 minutes ago, Lucentia said: Yeah, in my eye whilst her magic is potentially valuable it is a lot of points to spend for a trickling of long-ranged mortal wounds. The real value for me is that she is one of the truly resilient pieces in the DoK book (and one of the most resilient pieces in the game, to be fair.) You can throw her into a buffed up unit of Death Frenzy Plague Monks and she won't care, or stall a hammer unit for a couple of turns while you get in position. yeah, true. I tried to make a list with her last night but still having some snakes, this is what I got:Temple: Hagg NarRealm: GhurSlaughterqueen on Cauldron - General - Gryph-feather charm, Blessings of khaine, Devoted Disciples, MorathiHag Queen - Catechisms of murderHag Queen - Sacrament of blood30 Witch Aelves (buckler)10 sisters of slaughter10 sisters of slaughter10 Blood Sisters5 Khinerai HeartRenders5 Khinerai HeartRenders 10 Drops, but I dont feel I have enough bodies. So no wonder people who use morathi usually have 30 WE, 30 SOS (or 30 WE) then 10 more of WE or SOS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Blade Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 (edited) 9 hours ago, Chumphammer said: But pretty much every game I have seen, people just transform her turn 1, so makes the magic side not as important 9 hours ago, Lucentia said: Yeah, in my eye whilst her magic is potentially valuable it is a lot of points to spend for a trickling of long-ranged mortal wounds. The real value for me is that she is one of the truly resilient pieces in the DoK book (and one of the most resilient pieces in the game, to be fair.) You can throw her into a buffed up unit of Death Frenzy Plague Monks and she won't care, or stall a hammer unit for a couple of turns while you get in position. I should have kept quiet 😅 I'm still pretty new to DoK and I had not yet considered her ability to just gum up death blobs like Plague Monks. Learn something new every day. Edited July 31, 2019 by Black Blade 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chumphammer Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 13 minutes ago, Black Blade said: I should have kept quiet 😅 I'm still pretty new and to DoK and I had not yet considered her ability to just gum up death blobs like Plague Monks. Learn something new every day. lol its ok, I am new also Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaleun Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 Here are the ETC 2019 Team lists btw.https://aosshorts.com/etc-2019-team-lists/ The lists take the Lifetaker or the slaughter troupe battalion. Furthermore we can find Morath or snakes backed up by big blobs of witches or Sisters of Slaughter. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaleun Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 (edited) I have prepared a poster for you with all the DoK lists of ETC 2019, so it will be easier to compare. out of 8 lists we have: 4 lists with Claudron Guard (Witches+Lifetakers) 3 lists with Slaughter troupe (SoS+Heartrenders) 5 lists have Morathi every list makes use of the max. unitsize for point efficiency Leader section of all lists is very simliar (core: Slaughter Queen on Cauldron + 2 Hag Queens + Medusa) DoK ETC 2019 - all.pdf Edited July 31, 2019 by Kaleun 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chumphammer Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 6 minutes ago, Kaleun said: I have prepared a poster for you with all the DoK lists of ETC 2019, so it will be easier to compare. out of 8 lists we have: 4 lists with Claudron Guard (Witches+Lifetakers) 3 lists with Slaughter troupe (SoS+Heartrenders) 5 lists have Morathi every list makes use of the max. unitsize for point efficiency Leader section of all lists is very simliar (core: Slaughter Queen on Cauldron + 2 Hag Queens + Medusa) DoK ETC 2019 - all.pdf 821.46 kB · 1 download Thats great, thank you. Too bad ETC is using the older points though. Think we would all like hags for 60pts still lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaleun Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 21 hours ago, Chumphammer said: Thats great, thank you. Too bad ETC is using the older points though. Think we would all like hags for 60pts still lol yes, we took a hit with the nerf-hammer, but nevertheless we see which warscrolls are favored in the tournament scene. With Morathi vs. 20 Blood Sisters it all comes down to the opposing lists DoK are facing. For me Morathi is a defensive option. Morathi is less damage dealer further more she can tarpit units that would be a problem (aka. Deathstars spoken in old Warhammer terms). The Snakes on the other hand bring Mortal wounds to the table and provide more damage for the army. I consider them a offensive option. Overall I like the Druchii-theme of a glascannon army. Thats why I think the offensive options might be the way to go. Strategies can be built around Morathi for sure however. It is always good to have a unit that can pin down enemy units. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avindskjold Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 I'm going to come into possession of the Devoted of Morathi battleforce in about a week and has some questions. Always wanted to start up DoK and AoS in general and I've been loosely following the thread for the past few days. I'd like to get my feet wet at 1k and I'm thinking of the following: Quote Allegiance: DoK Temple: Hagg Nar Leaders: Slaughter Queen on Cauldron of Blood General Trait: Devoted Disciples Prayer: Blessing of Khaine Hag Queen Prayer: Catechism of Murder Units: 30 x Sisters of Slaughter Buckers 10 x Sisters of Slaughter Bucklers 5 x Khinerai Heartrenders Total: 930 I've taken a liking to SoS, given the 6" activation and 2" range, although I confess to liking the classic witch elf look a bit more. I'm not really certain whether I want to build my collection into a Slaughter Troupe or Cauldron Guard as I add on to it. Both are clearly viable, given the distribution of both at ETC. I'm just undecided as of yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucentia Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 Sisters and Witches are both viable unit choices, so you can't really go wrong with either for the most part. If you're running a large SoS block as your main unit then I would say you would be better off giving them knives instead of shields, 60 attacks for 300 points will only get you so far! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avindskjold Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 (edited) Heh, everyone I talk to has a slightly different take on the WE/SoS & knives/bucklers debate. Makes it tough to decide how to build them! The way it was rationalized to me, the SoS have a 2” range. If they attack from max range, they aren't using the 1” range knives (and you may as well take bucklers for the MW chance and bonus to saves). I see the value of two knives on WE, though. Edited August 2, 2019 by Aristo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swarmofseals Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 Is anyone aware of any posts or podcasts in which any of the top DoK players have talked about their adaptations to the new GHB? All those ETC lists are pretty useless given that they need major changes to fit in under the new points scheme. Jack Armstrong's list went up by 140 points Dagmarja Wajs' list went up by 160 points Rosenramm's list went up by 180 points Samuel Jansson's list went up by 130 points Stefan Gmur's list went up by 100 points Melisa Mumcu's list went up by 130 points Roger Barker's list went up by 170 points I know everyone and his mother is insisting that DoK is still top tier, and that may be so, but these lists are all going to have to drop significant pieces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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