Milano Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 21 minutes ago, jhamslam said: Hagg Nars 5 up FNP is now wholly within 12. so if your cauldron wants to keep up CA to keep up is just.. really bad. A command ability to extend cauldrons bubble or make it more potent would be more like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feii Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 1 hour ago, Jacek said: 1. You use it in hero phase cant read THANKS! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutton Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 (edited) Oh wait, f- me. I just realized Avatars increase nearby prayer rolls by 1. So if priestesses are near any avatars, they can't stab themselves anymore. Edited February 12, 2021 by Mutton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhamslam Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 27 minutes ago, Fred1245 said: TL: DR The book is bad and it should feel bad. This is peak comedy. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhamslam Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Milano said: CA to keep up is just.. really bad. A command ability to extend cauldrons bubble or make it more potent would be more like it. yeah because the 5 up FNP is really strong on a 30 block. not to mention the general itself. No kidding. Extending it would literally counteract the balancing to it Cant give one temple everything Edited February 12, 2021 by jhamslam 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred1245 Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 10 minutes ago, jhamslam said: yeah because the 5 up FNP is really strong on a 30 block. not to mention the general itself. No kidding. Cant give one temple everything Except you can't ever charge anything more than 12" away from that Cauldron without losing everything. That means that thirty block is now prisoner of that cauldron. The +3 movement might just be the best CA we have because it's 1CP to be closer to as good as we were before this book nerfed literally every aspect of the army. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacek Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 14 minutes ago, Fred1245 said: Except you can't ever charge anything more than 12" away from that Cauldron without losing everything. That means that thirty block is now prisoner of that cauldron. The +3 movement might just be the best CA we have because it's 1CP to be closer to as good as we were before this book nerfed literally every aspect of the army. Theoretically you can if you use mirror dance spell? You can teleport your cauldron 9" from enemy and then if you charge with your 30 block you should be wholly within that 12"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnholyRevenant Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 (edited) I cant understand why people are upset about the inclusion of Wholly Within. It should have been clear to anyone with a Brain stem it was comming. Every other book has followed the same format, no way Daughters were going to escape it. That said I Iike the update. The only two things I dislike is the CV 8 on mindrazor and the changes to Witch Brew. Edited February 12, 2021 by UnholyRevenant 1 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lirieth Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 1 hour ago, Fred1245 said: I don't know what book you guys are looking at but this is a pretty massive nerf across the board. The point drops were necessary to keep us from being a joke army. We're now a stagnant, immobile bubble army that still has no meaningful ranged threats. It'll take you 3 turns to hit your enemies deployment zone with ANY buffs, let alone all of them and long bomb charges are out of the question because you'll lose 60% of your melee damage output getting that far away from your characters. It nerfed everything we were good at, gave us nothing in return, and didn't help any of the issues we had with shooting armies. We were better off not getting updated. The temples are massively nerfed by being forced to take a relic. Every single relic inherent to the temples is a completely useless 'this character whose melee doesn't matter is slightly better (or slightly worse in the case of that stupid D6 mortal wounds relic). That means to get anything useful you HAVE to include a battalion, which sucks because they're all massively overpriced still. The additional temple benefits are mediocre across the board with significant nerfs to Hagg Narr and Khailebron (the teleport being a CA makes it largely useless and the new CT is completely useless). Blood sisters are still terrible with the new Crystal gaze and are even worse losing their max unit discount. Witch Aelves now only get the bonus attack when WHOLLY WITHIN 12, which combined with the nerfs to witchbrew mean they're losing between 25-50% of their damage output on average. Let's talk about the nerf to witchbrew. This kills the army outright. Being wholly within 12 means you'll only realistically get to use it once per game(unless you're just not charging ever, which considering the rest of the asinine 12" wholly within bubbles seems like our best option, honestly) and guess what? That once per game it's on a 4+ unless you're using massively nerfed Hagg Narr. So we're going to hit like wet noodles while ALSO losing 3/4ths of every unit to battleshock. The buff to mindrazor and both bloodwracks is irrelevant because Teclis, LoC, Knight Incantor, Nagash, etc, still mean you'll never actually be able to cast it, even if you do somehow swing an 8 for the cast roll(WHICH IS EVEN HARDER BECAUSE THEY NERFED SHADOWSTONE FOR NO FETHING REASON!). Also, wholly within which means you better be casting it on something in your deployment zone. Making the heroes cheaper didn't fix the issue with them being FAR too easy to snipe. The Ironscale is still mostly useless due to her +1 attack ability being impossible to use and her CA affecting a bad unit (blood sisters). We now have 2 potential lists that could actually win games and one of them has literally 0 chance against any army that has even a small amount of shooting. You can take Morathi and a bunch of blood stalkers and hope shooting 80 shots per turn is enough(probably not after the totally unnecessary nerfs to our shooting). Actually NOPE! The nerf to Khailebron TP means this doesn't really work anymore either. Hope you guys like camping! The other is camping 2 objectives wholly with 12 of a Hagg Narr Cauldron and not moving for 5 turns and hope that your opponent is stupid enough to charge into 5+5++5+++ -1 damage. Which is still worse that the equivalent strategy would have been before because now you have to take the stupid fething useless freaking stock relic so you get no chance to help your prayer chances without a relic. TL: DR The book is bad and it should feel bad. So True! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnholyRevenant Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 Also every other book has followed the format of sub factions forcing artifacts, it's another change we were never going to escape. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonesplitterz Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 50 minutes ago, Mutton said: Oh wait, f- me. I just realized Avatars increase nearby prayer rolls by 1. So if priestesses are near any avatars, they can't stab themselves anymore. Where is that rule ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutton Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 Just now, Bonesplitterz said: Where is that rule ? It's the first ability on the left of the warscroll. And I checked, the cauldron versions don't have this ability---it's only the Avatar on foot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonesplitterz Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 Just now, Mutton said: It's the first ability on the left of the warscroll. And I checked, the cauldron versions don't have this ability---it's only the Avatar on foot. Oh that’s why! Thanks for pointing it out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonesplitterz Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 4 minutes ago, Mutton said: It's the first ability on the left of the warscroll. And I checked, the cauldron versions don't have this ability---it's only the Avatar on foot. The warscroll for the Avatar of Khaine on foot is not in the leak or I’m blind ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swarmofseals Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 @Fred1245 you are absolutely correct that this book is a nerf, but beyond that I think you are way off base. I've been playing DoK almost exclusively against top tier lists for the last couple months, and the optimal pre-book DoK lists were utterly overpowered. The hero phase teleport basically made the faction a better version of KO, and don't get me started on the Lauchon/Mirror Dance/Morathi ******. That stuff absolutely needed to be taken out of the game. Once I realized how broken those builds were I focused on playing lower tier DoK lists that I thought were realistic representations of how the faction would play once these obviously overpowered abilities got nerfed. I was playing lots of tough opponents: lots of Fangs of Sotek Kroak lists, Teclis lists, Archaon/Kairos Tzeentch lists, Changehost, KO, and some oddball lists that are surprisingly decent like the Archaon/Katakros list that's been floating around. The only top tier army that I didn't really get much chance to test against was Idoneth. What I found is that the faction played absolutely fine and was competitive in most of these matchups. I think that all of your concerns have some basic validity to them, but they can be adapted to. If you just keep playing DoK the way you did before you are going to have a bad time, but I think if you take the time to learn the new rules you will find that DoK are still very competitive and might even still have some S tier builds. 3 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStreicher Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 (edited) I really like that all of the Temples have a solid appeal now. Edit: I am happy for DoK since I find the Hedonites Warscrolls so abhorrantly bad that, in fact, I am not even tempted anymore to buy anything of that faction Edited February 12, 2021 by JackStreicher 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chumphammer Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 (edited) Morathi-Khaine & The shadow queen both lost 1 rend somewhere stabbing sigmar in the back lol Both now rend 1 on heartrender Edited February 12, 2021 by Chumphammer 1 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutton Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 1 hour ago, Bonesplitterz said: The warscroll for the Avatar of Khaine on foot is not in the leak or I’m blind ? Warscrolls are on GW's new zealand site now. 5 minutes ago, Chumphammer said: Morathi-Khaine & The shadow queen both lost 1 rend somewhere stabbing sigmar in the back lol Both now rend 1 on heartrender Not happy about this. An unnecessary change that now means she's far less effective against a plethora of enemies that ignore -1 rend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eternalis Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 6 minutes ago, Chumphammer said: Morathi-Khaine & The shadow queen both lost 1 rend somewhere stabbing sigmar in the back l Someone has to email GW! We need an errata ASAP! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutton Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 9 minutes ago, Eternalis said: Someone has to email GW! We need an errata ASAP! What was the email address for that stuff again? I have to believe it's a mistake---everything else from Broken Realms is the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigmarusvult Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 (edited) EDIT : Someone had mentionned it above ^^ Edited February 12, 2021 by Sigmarusvult Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonesplitterz Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 Let’s get this question out of the way early 😁: Witch Aelves / Sisters of Slaughters: Paired Sacrifial Knives or Bladed Buckle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silphid Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 2 minutes ago, Bonesplitterz said: Let’s get this question out of the way early 😁: Witch Aelves / Sisters of Slaughters: Paired Sacrifial Knives or Bladed Buckle? Bucklers, ‘cause I’m not snapping my models apart to change them 😒 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaskier Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 Bloodwracks are incredible. That is all. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mcprowlington Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 (edited) kind of amazed hag narr keeps the chance of a 5+ rerollable FNP hag queens are definitely rather overpriced when hag brew isn't guaranteed though, probably should've come down from 90 slaughter queen on foot can still use orgy of slaughter command ability, that's pretty neat Edited February 13, 2021 by Mcprowlington Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.