DrDemento Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 1 hour ago, Hannibal said: Personally I refuse to play wizards. In my opinion 1 wizard is a gamble, even 2 might be. The reason is: against magic heavy foes your wizards will do nothing, no casting, no dispelling. Due to the fact, that magic heavy armies offer multiple ways to increase chance of casting and / or dispelling. Against low magic users, magic is nothing but a thorn in the side. I do not know any potentially game changing spell on a 90 pts wizard, meaning I see no reason to bring a "dispel wizard" on my own. In addition, the really powerfull spells often have casting values above 7+ making it a real gamble to successfully cast such a spell. That being said, I think that Hand of Gork is one of the best spells in the game. Cast on a unit of 20 Grots with some hidden Fanatics is able to cause major mayhem in the enemies backfield. I’ve had similar thoughts and experiences. I’ve only played a couple games with the new gloomspite, but even my 6 wizard LoN castinngs can be disappointing betweeen say 50% on average to cast and enemy unbinds, I’m getting two spells successful and an unbind or two every round. But the Hand of Gork is enough to make your opponents have to think about it and be prepared. So maybe Fungoid for the shot at command points (even though I haven’t had a successful roll in two games!), or Zarbag for the +2 to cast (and his Gitz instead of a unit of herders or hoppers). I think if going spiderang with cauldron magic might be a better bet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfernalStone Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 @Malakree Ah, that makes things a good bit more relevant. That had slipped my mind entirely. Especially the realm spells. I guess that's a fault of diving a bit more head on into this system than usual. (Trying to plan at least the first 1000 points of a 500, 1k, 1.5k escalation league that starts in a few weeks) What book are those located in? I have the General's Handbook 2018 and Gloomspite book. So I'm guessing Malign Portents or something? @Hannibal I can totally see that. I know magic / psychic / what-not is always a higher risk for return, which I'm okay with in some situations depending on what the potential pay off is. (I never ran psychic in my 7e 40k orks, but I did in my 7e harlequins.) And if it doesn't work out, I can drop them from normal play later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
borghe Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 23 minutes ago, Malakree said: @InfernalStone one of the most important things to remember is that in a gloomspite army any gloomspite wizard heroes get to take an extra spell from their lore. Combine this with any realm spells and the strength of their personal spell is kind of irrelevant. not Gloomspite. only Moonclan Wizard and Spiderfang Wizard. Hag (for example) doesn't get the extra spell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miguel_fernan Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 Sorry if this doesnt go here, but I didnt know where I could ask. Will gw update the paint app to include the gloomspite gitz? It has been quite a while since they release and nothing. And I could really use some guide on my trogoths and the shrine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakree Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 (edited) 1 minute ago, miguel_fernan said: Sorry if this doesnt go here, but I didnt know where I could ask. Will gw update the paint app to include the gloomspite gitz? It has been quite a while since they release and nothing. And I could really use some guide on my trogoths and the shrine. Posting a message on the Age of Sigmar facebook page is probably the best idea. They might get duncan to do a video on it for you. Edited January 30, 2019 by Malakree 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sorokyl Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 1 hour ago, Malakree said: @InfernalStone one of the most important things to remember is that in a gloomspite army any gloomspite wizard heroes get to take an extra spell from their lore. Combine this with any realm spells and the strength of their personal spell is kind of irrelevant. Most people do not play with Realm spells, since it usually strongly favors 1 army over the other. So... the warscroll spell is half the unique spells for the model (not really counting arcane bolt / mystic shield).. I'd say it's pretty important. Situationally it may not always make sense to cast the spell you chose from the lore. Also, The Gobbapolooza wizards, as well as the Troggoth Hag, can not take Moonclan (or spiderfang) spell lores) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakree Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 1 minute ago, sorokyl said: Most people do not play with Realm spells, since it usually strongly favors 1 army over the other. So... the warscroll spell is half the unique spells for the model (not really counting arcane bolt / mystic shield).. I'd say it's pretty important. Situationally it may not always make sense to cast the spell you chose from the lore. There is usually the Core Rules realm spell played at most tournaments, mystic Shield/Arcane Bolt combined with a Lore spell means you have 4 potential options even without it. If you often find yourself being unable to cast the Lore spell then it means either you have to many wizards or you're picking the wrong spell. Realistically the personal spells on the Fungoid and Zarbag are irrelevant to their usage in any army while the Deathcap spell functions as an extra bonus spell for the situations it is useful. If none of them had any of those spells it wouldn't affect their usability. 1 hour ago, borghe said: not Gloomspite. only Moonclan Wizard and Spiderfang Wizard. Hag (for example) doesn't get the extra spell. 7 minutes ago, sorokyl said: Also, The Gobbapolooza wizards, as well as the Troggoth Hag, can not take Moonclan (or spiderfang) spell lores) I'm aware the Hag doesn't get a Lore, she's also not in the book, a forgeworld model and has one of the best personal spells in the game. Honestly she's irrelevant for this particular conversation. The specific quote in question Quote But I'm having a really hard time being excited about the non-spiderfang Gloomspite wizards built in spells. It feels other than Loonking or Gobbapalooza, Isn't referencing the Hag, you can tell by the rest of their post. While the second is excluding the Gobbapalooza just as I did when I said "Gloomspite Wizard Heroes" 1 hour ago, InfernalStone said: @Malakree Ah, that makes things a good bit more relevant. That had slipped my mind entirely. Especially the realm spells. I guess that's a fault of diving a bit more head on into this system than usual. (Trying to plan at least the first 1000 points of a 500, 1k, 1.5k escalation league that starts in a few weeks) What book are those located in? I have the General's Handbook 2018 and Gloomspite book. So I'm guessing Malign Portents or something? Most tournaments run the realm spell from the Core Book. There are also another 6 realm spells in Malign Sorcery which are occasionally used. For the Moonclan lore. Hand of Gork is one of the best spells in the game. The Great Green Spite and Squig Lure are both amazing depending on the list you're playing. Itchy Nuisance is a reasonable option which can really dump on an opponents key characters. (ManglerBoss with the retreat after attacking) Vindictive Glare is a shorter range Arcane Bolt that is otherwise strictly better. Call da Moon is a map wide Arcane Bolt on a slightly higher cast value that always gets the D3 and can situationally be rerolled. Honestly the Gloomspite Lores are really good and make most of the personal spells irrelevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a74xhx Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 51 minutes ago, Malakree said: Honestly the Gloomspite Lores are really good and make most of the personal spells irrelevant. I'm wondering if this is intentional to stop mixed Destruction being overpowered and Bonesplitterz/Grots/Greenskinz from being competitive, as none of them can use our spell lore without use of the Arachnacauldron. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfernalStone Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 3 hours ago, sorokyl said: Also, The Gobbapolooza wizards, as well as the Troggoth Hag, can not take Moonclan (or spiderfang) spell lores) I'm curious, why can't the Gobbapolooza wizards take spells? They have the keywords the other wizards have, minus HERO. Or is that the one the require? Again, my book is at the house, so it may be listed there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amysrevenge Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 They worded the spell lores very carefully and precisely (they did this for a lot of rules in this book - I find the deliberate precision very admirable). GLOOMSPITE GITZ WIZARD HERO to even get a chance to look at the tables, and then MOONCLAN WIZARD or SPIDERFANG WIZARD for each of the lores. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skabnoze Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 5 hours ago, borghe said: not Gloomspite. only Moonclan Wizard and Spiderfang Wizard. Hag (for example) doesn't get the extra spell. The cauldron solves that issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlasticCraic Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 3 hours ago, a74xhx said: I'm wondering if this is intentional to stop mixed Destruction being overpowered and Bonesplitterz/Grots/Greenskinz from being competitive, as none of them can use our spell lore without use of the Arachnacauldron. I'd almost say it's the opposite...this is the first and only time that you can access a Spell Lore without taking that Allegiance. If anything they have gone out of their way to throw those other Allegiances a bone...unless they intended it mainly for Spiderfang and Gobbapalooza Wizards, and didn't think about the applications outside of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfernalStone Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 So this is what I'm thinking at 1000 and 1500, let me know if you see anything terrible: 60 Stabbas 6 Squigs 1 Loonboss with Attack Squig 1 Madcap Shaman 6 Snufflers 3 Fellwater Troggoths 5 Boingrot Bounders Some endless spell (At 960 points before spell, so it'll be a cheap one) at 1500, the list moves to 60 Stabbas 20 Shootas 6 Squigs 1 Skraggott the Loon King 1 Loonboss with Attack Squig 1 Mollog 6 Snufflers 3 Fellwater Troggoths 10 Boingrot Bounders The intention being post campaign to add in a Gobbapalooza w/ Battalion, 3 more Fellwaters or 10 more Bounders, depending on which I enjoy. to get to the 2k. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlasticCraic Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 6 minutes ago, InfernalStone said: Some endless spell (At 960 points before spell, so it'll be a cheap one) Good news, the best Endless Spell in the game is only 40 points! Chuck Geminids in there, you won't regret it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakree Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 2 hours ago, PlasticCraic said: If anything they have gone out of their way to throw those other Allegiances a bone...unless they intended it mainly for Spiderfang and Gobbapalooza Wizards, and didn't think about the applications outside of that. I'm so tempted to try and take something like this for heat 1. Quote Allegiance: IronjawzMortal Realm: AqshyLeadersOrruk Megaboss (140)Gordrakk the Fist of Gork (580)Madcap Shaman (80)- AlliesBattleline5 x Orruk Brutes (180)- Pair of Brute Choppas5 x Orruk Brutes (180)- Pair of Brute Choppas5 x Orruk Brutes (180)- Pair of Brute Choppas3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)- Pig-iron Choppas3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)- Pig-iron ChoppasUnits6 x Rockgut Troggoths (320)- AlliesEndless SpellsScrapskuttle's Arachnacauldron (50)Total: 1990 / 2000Extra Command Points: 0Allies: 400 / 400Wounds: 125 Cast Cauldron Put Voice of Gork on Rockguts Use Madcap to cast Hand of Gork. 3d6 charge with 6 Rockguts who have +2 attacks each. ??? Profit Just for the hilarity against people who aren't expecting Ironjawz to have any redeployment stuff. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlasticCraic Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 Very cool...I had to double check, but Endless Spells do not count towards Allies points. Nice! I do like the Arachanrok Shammy too for Mixed / Allied purposes. +1 to cast natively, then a further +1 from the Cauldron. Plus it's pretty tasty in its own right. Similar with the Hag, with the added bonus that she can heal up the wounds she incurs from the Cauldron. The downside being that she only casts one spell (unless someone else casts Cogs, and she manipulates it to slow down time - she'd be a real handful with Etheral Amulet on top of that). By this stage it's becoming very expensive though. Both of those of course severely limit what else you can take in Allies, unlike your minimum caster. Worthy of consideration though. The other option is taking it with a Weirdfist. Maxes out at +5 to Cast I think? +2 native +1 Arcane +1 Rogue Idol ally +1 Arachnacauldron You'd want to take a healing artefact or even Emerald Lifeswarm I guess! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlasticCraic Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 I do want to write a Hag Star list for Gloomspite with the following attributes: - Someone casts Cogs, she slows it down - She casts Arachnacauldron - She heals back up - Someone Hand of Gorks her straight into range of her Vomit and her Warscroll spell (or an Endless spell if it's situationally better) - Hopefully get her into the Moon quadrant and / or near Arcane with the Hand too - Give her Etheral Amulet and she is rerolling all saves, ignoring all rend and healing up D6 per turn - She is up in their grill, casting and unbinding multiple spells* with bonuses to everything, damaging their wizards with her unbinds and vomitting all over them - Tell your opponent to have fun dealing with that *You could also take the artefact that gives an extra unbind, so she is unbinding 3 spells per turn with bonuses to all, potentially damaging their casters with each 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahemme Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 Hey guys. I´m sorry if this has been answered before, but i couldn´t find it with a search and the 87 pages of this thread is a little much to go through. But concerning the fanatics and their whirling death ability: If I release them in my own charge phase and their charge goes through, they have to attack first. But after they have attacked, do I also get to pick another unit to attack with, or does their attack count as my first pick for that combat phase? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakithe Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 13 hours ago, PlasticCraic said: I do want to write a Hag Star list for Gloomspite with the following attributes: - Someone casts Cogs, she slows it down - She casts Arachnacauldron - She heals back up - Someone Hand of Gorks her straight into range of her Vomit and her Warscroll spell (or an Endless spell if it's situationally better) - Hopefully get her into the Moon quadrant and / or near Arcane with the Hand too - Give her Etheral Amulet and she is rerolling all saves, ignoring all rend and healing up D6 per turn - She is up in their grill, casting and unbinding multiple spells* with bonuses to everything, damaging their wizards with her unbinds and vomitting all over them - Tell your opponent to have fun dealing with that *You could also take the artefact that gives an extra unbind, so she is unbinding 3 spells per turn with bonuses to all, potentially damaging their casters with each Nasty nasty...what would you include in a 2k to support this idea? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williegoat Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 2 hours ago, Ahemme said: Hey guys. I´m sorry if this has been answered before, but i couldn´t find it with a search and the 87 pages of this thread is a little much to go through. But concerning the fanatics and their whirling death ability: If I release them in my own charge phase and their charge goes through, they have to attack first. But after they have attacked, do I also get to pick another unit to attack with, or does their attack count as my first pick for that combat phase? They get to fight first. After all fanatics have gone, then you go to normal picking and alternating of units to fight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnaleinad Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 23 hours ago, Malakree said: For the Moonclan lore. Hand of Gork is one of the best spells in the game. The Great Green Spite and Squig Lure are both amazing depending on the list you're playing. Itchy Nuisance is a reasonable option which can really dump on an opponents key characters. (ManglerBoss with the retreat after attacking) Vindictive Glare is a shorter range Arcane Bolt that is otherwise strictly better. Call da Moon is a map wide Arcane Bolt on a slightly higher cast value that always gets the D3 and can situationally be rerolled. Honestly the Gloomspite Lores are really good and make most of the personal spells irrelevant. I personally find that Itchy Nuisance is so useful in all army build of Gloomspite Gitz. Even mortal wounding spiders or Troggoths Heavy list. You can charge 3 small units into one enemy unit that you cast this spell on and you attack 3 times. Doing away with Wizard is no good for this army, it has so many debuffing spells! I personally think that the endless spells of Gloomspite is the best of all we seen.. Against horde army like Daughters of Khaine? Hand of Gork your Arachnarok Shaman and Mork Mighty Mushroom. Can also use to area deny an objective. Against caster heavy Tzeentch? Hand of Gork your Arachnarok Shaman and cast Malevolent Moon to cripple his shaman (with the Bad Moon you can give -3 to casting..) Against any army, just Scuttletide and area deny or block their movement. The Arachnacauldron give +1 to casting and it is so good with Arachnarok Shaman. You also can gamble with Fungoid Shaman 4+ mortal wound save for it to cast a big spell with +2 to casting if the Bad Moon is on your side.. We have so many choice here. Awhile ago I posted one build with a Rogue Idol for a +4 to casting for Shragrott Loonking when there is a Bad Moon. What you all think of the Endless Spell? Especially the Mork Mighty Mushroom! Meh or Whoohooo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adreal Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 So after flirting with the idea of going full spider (which I want to do but it gets expensive with direct only models) I've decided a mix list will be more fun (and strangely more affordable) LEADERS Skragrott, The Loonking (220)- General- Lore of the Moonclans : The Great Green Spite Loonboss (70) Fungoid Cave-Shaman (90)- Lore of the Moonclans : The Hand of Gork Scuttleboss on Gigantic Spider (100)- Artefact : The Black Fang Webspinner Shaman on Arachnarok Spider (300)- Lore of the Spiderfangs : Scuttling Terrors UNITS 60 x Stabbas (360)- Pokin Spears & Moon Shields- 9 x Barbed Nets- 2 x Moonclan Flag Bearers- 1 x Badmoon Icon Bearers 6 x Squig Herd (70) 6 x Squig Herd (70) 15 x Spider Riders (300) 10 x Boingrot Bounderz (200) 3 x Rockgut Troggoths (160) ENDLESS SPELLS Scrapskuttle's Arachnacauldron (50) So the thinking here is to hand of gork the rock guts up and force people to deal with them (3d3 mortal wounds to units with 6 or more models seems good), and put the arachnacauldron on the loonking, for spell buffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skabnoze Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 12 minutes ago, adreal said: So the thinking here is to hand of gork the rock guts up and force people to deal with them (3d3 mortal wounds to units with 6 or more models seems good), and put the arachnacauldron on the loonking, for spell buffs. It seems like you may be a bit mistaken about how the boulder attack for the Stone Trolls works (or I am reading your post incorrectly). The unit makes a single attack, not each model, so with one unit in your list you will only get 1d3. In addition, the attack roll is based on the size of the Troll unit and not the enemy unit. You have to roll equal to or under the number of trolls in the unit that is throwing boulders (think accuracy by volume of rocks thrown) so with 3 models the unit has a 50/50 chance to hit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adreal Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 11 minutes ago, Skabnoze said: It seems like you may be a bit mistaken about how the boulder attack for the Stone Trolls works (or I am reading your post incorrectly). The unit makes a single attack, not each model, so with one unit in your list you will only get 1d3. In addition, the attack roll is based on the size of the Troll unit and not the enemy unit. You have to roll equal to or under the number of trolls in the unit that is throwing boulders (think accuracy by volume of rocks thrown) so with 3 models the unit has a 50/50 chance to hit. Oh......yeah no, completely mistook that one.....well then rockguts dont seem all that good now, might swap them for either fellwater or fanatics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skabnoze Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 8 minutes ago, adreal said: Oh......yeah no, completely mistook that one.....well then rockguts dont seem all that good now, might swap them for either fellwater or fanatics They are still a deceptively good unit. They are fairly durable, hit quite hard, have a good ranged attack, and are fairly well costed. The tactic of hurling them into the teeth of the enemy and forcing someone to deal with them is not necessarily a bad one. But Fellwater and Fanatics are good units also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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