AoS 2 - Skaventide Discussion

[W1tchhunter]

How does death frenzy work on heroes? When they fight do they fight on full bracket or lowest bracket?

[Skreech Verminking]

Just now, W1tchhunter said:

How does death frenzy work on heroes? When they fight do they fight on full bracket or lowest bracket?

Firstly normal deathfrenzy cast by a grey seer, doesn’t work on any skaven heroes.

dreaded deathfrenzy on the other hand does.

if you are casting dreaded deathfrenzy on a hero that has a bracket system you’ll use the bracket system as describe.

which is in the skaven case always the lowest.

After-all with 0 wounds remaining they will have lost the max. Amount of wounds+ more for having to take the lowest bracket 

[Cosmicsheep]

44 minutes ago, W1tchhunter said:

Cheers for that! Anything you'd change with the list? I'm missing a few things but definitely want to try it out soon!

I'd probably split the monks into MSU of 10. They die too quick and don't leave any behind to buff the censer bearers

And i'd maybe swap Thanquol for a Warbringer, and drop a priest for some more censer bearers or a screen of nightrunners

 

41 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

More rattling guns 

I do have another list with 3 ratling guns (cos that's how many i have) to utilise the new GC Aspect to give all 3 AoA

[W1tchhunter]

2 hours ago, Cosmicsheep said:

I'd probably split the monks into MSU of 10. They die too quick and don't leave any behind to buff the censer bearers

And i'd maybe swap Thanquol for a Warbringer, and drop a priest for some more censer bearers or a screen of nightrunners

 

I do have another list with 3 ratling guns (cos that's how many i have) to utilise the new GC Aspect to give all 3 AoA

Is the second plague Priest not important for the great plagues? I feel like if you take a warbringer you should ditch the grpyh feather and put one of the verminus artefacts on him, they are all really good 

[Cosmicsheep]

8 minutes ago, W1tchhunter said:

Is the second plague Priest not important for the great plagues? I feel like if you take a warbringer you should ditch the grpyh feather and put one of the verminus artefacts on him, they are all really good 

Because 1 priest is my general, he gets the +1 already and I usually start him next to a gnawhole.

and yeah, if I took the Warbringer I’d take ratcursed armour probably

[W1tchhunter]

5 minutes ago, Cosmicsheep said:

Because 1 priest is my general, he gets the +1 already and I usually start him next to a gnawhole.

and yeah, if I took the Warbringer I’d take ratcursed armour probably

Couldn't decide between that or the distraction shield 🤔 

[Skreech Verminking]

34 minutes ago, W1tchhunter said:

Couldn't decide between that or the distraction shield 🤔 

Well…. Lets say this.

last time I used the shield I and my opponent forgot what it did😂.

well, hopefully I’ll see how good it is next time

[W1tchhunter]

Just now, Skreech Verminking said:

Well…. Lets say this.

last time I used the shield I and my opponent forgot what it did😂.

well, hopefully I’ll see how good it is next time

Haha just seems like it would be a really good way to keep him alive, cause let's be honest they ain't great at surviving  😛

[Scythian]

Skaven Thanquol Army

[Lord Krungharr]

21 hours ago, Scythian said:

Skaven Thanquol Army

Jezzails, eh?  Guess if you have the models already might as well use them, but seems like 2 Lightning Cannons would be superior.  Rat Ogors though, those seem very good these days.  I shoulda picked up the lot I saw a couple years ago for cheap.  Oh well, I like my warpstone nutjobs, and now, their ninja friends!  Here's my next list.....assuming the Verminlord arrives and I can get it built before the next game.  Haven't decided on the artefacts, but I'm gonna use a Command Entourage I think for an extra one.  There's that new battalion Sharpshooters too, might be good for the Acolytes and Gutter Runners.

[Skreech Verminking]

13 hours ago, Lord Krungharr said:

Jezzails, eh?  Guess if you have the models already might as well use them, but seems like 2 Lightning Cannons would be superior.  Rat Ogors though, those seem very good these days.  I shoulda picked up the lot I saw a couple years ago for cheap.  Oh well, I like my warpstone nutjobs, and now, their ninja friends!  Here's my next list.....assuming the Verminlord arrives and I can get it built before the next game.  Haven't decided on the artefacts, but I'm gonna use a Command Entourage I think for an extra one.  There's that new battalion Sharpshooters too, might be good for the Acolytes and Gutter Runners.

Awesome built.

I see your going all out on a skryre eshin wipe.

personally love it.

now if just gutter runners would look more ratlike then monkey like

[Milford]

Here's my current list (I'm very much a noob when it comes to actually *playing* the game): 

[Lord Krungharr]

On 1/22/2023 at 8:26 AM, Skreech Verminking said:

Awesome built.

I see your going all out on a skryre eshin wipe.

personally love it.

now if just gutter runners would look more ratlike then monkey like

Thanks!  I think the gutter runners are okay, but the night runners are awful and very primatey looking.  Must mean rats are our genetic ancestors.   

....regarding the Skaven weapon teams hiding in a unit of Clanrats.   The Warp grinder says one unit can join it in tunneling deepstrike.  But if a weapon team, or four, hide in a unit of 40-60 Clanrats, does that mean it can not join the Warp Grinder since its then more than one unit actually?  I see some strategery on the Facebook forum about doing this, which seems crazy good, but wasn't sure about it.   Need Clanrats to do it though.  

On 1/22/2023 at 12:05 PM, Milford said:

Here's my current list (I'm very much a noob when it comes to actually *playing* the game): 

That looks like a great alpha strike to me!  Do the Deathmasters die though if the night runners they hide in die first?   The enemy will certainly have their hands full with the other stuff, but I could see an wiser opponent nuke them first if they have spare arrows. Can you fit all those heroes in a battle regiment?    If not maybe go for 2 drops,...OR command entourage to get a Brass Orb and relocate someone who you don't want to be in your backfield.  

[fishwaffle2232]

Spoiler

 

Interesting list, but I don't love the big block of stormfiends without protection. I feel like without sufficient screening, unless that is how you plan on using your eshin, the stormfiends will get charged and have their shooting shut down. I mean you could just use one of the eshin units to screen, but at that point, you might just be better off with a unit of clanrats. 

[Cosmicsheep]

13 hours ago, Lord Krungharr said:

The Warp grinder says one unit can join it in tunneling deepstrike.  But if a weapon team, or four, hide in a unit of 40-60 Clanrats, does that mean it can not join the Warp Grinder since its then more than one unit actually?

This was answered in an FAQ. Yes, technically the FAQ says "a" weapon team rather than multiple weapons teams, but i read that as being ok

[Cosmicsheep]

13 hours ago, Lord Krungharr said:

Do the Deathmasters die though if the night runners they hide in die first?

This is answered on the warscroll, the deathmaster suffers 1 MW if the unit it is hiding in is destroyed

[Skreech Verminking]

7 minutes ago, Cosmicsheep said:

This was answered in an FAQ. Yes, technically the FAQ says "a" weapon team rather than multiple weapons teams, but i read that as being ok

Yeah to answer the question even better, the weapon team must be hidden inside a unit of clanrats.

that doesn’t mean that the u it of clanrats counts as more their own unit, thus can take the path a warpgirnder teams tunnels for them.

the weapon team in all instances is considered to not even exist as it doesn’t count as a drop when setting up your army.

it comes into existence when you reveal its hiddy hole 

[Milford]

@fishwaffle2232 @Lord Krungharr Thanks for the comments.

My main motivation for the list was just that I love stormfiend models (suitably converted) and (unpopular opinion) the old 2002 night runner models (and Eshin in general). I have about 80 of those models that I got when they released! (As an aside, I also dislike the new clan rat models and their lore. Much prefer the Jes Goodwin sculpts and the lore that they're at least somewhat competent and ordered fighters. But that's another story 😛 )

My plan was to keep the night runners to screen the storm fiends, but maybe clan rats or storm vermin would be better for the job.

I wonder whether it's even worth investing in the three eshin hero buff if my only serious eshin troops are 10 gutter runners. Perhaps it is worth it for those guys and the heroes alone. 

Also, I did think about dropping Devious Adversary for Unrivalled Killer, allowing me to keep the buff and drop a death master, but I'm not sure that's worth it.

 

[Skreech Verminking]

2 hours ago, Milford said:

@fishwaffle2232 @Lord Krungharr Thanks for the comments.

My main motivation for the list was just that I love stormfiend models (suitably converted) and (unpopular opinion) the old 2002 night runner models (and Eshin in general). I have about 80 of those models that I got when they released! (As an aside, I also dislike the new clan rat models and their lore. Much prefer the Jes Goodwin sculpts and the lore that they're at least somewhat competent and ordered fighters. But that's another story 😛 )

My plan was to keep the night runners to screen the storm fiends, but maybe clan rats or storm vermin would be better for the job.

I wonder whether it's even worth investing in the three eshin hero buff if my only serious eshin troops are 10 gutter runners. Perhaps it is worth it for those guys and the heroes alone. 

Also, I did think about dropping Devious Adversary for Unrivalled Killer, allowing me to keep the buff and drop a death master, but I'm not sure that's worth it.

 

Clanrats do a majestic job at keeping stormfiends alive, but oersonally go for whatever you want to have in your army.

Personally it is great to hear that you enjoy stormfiends.

I personally, don’t really enjoy them as one if their many factors that screams out skaven, doesn’t really quit describe their playstyle.

personally there is just missing one slight thing and in my personal opinion, it could be added so easily.

-just give them the rule that every unmodified hit role of a 1 made with a shooting weapon hits the nearest friendly unit that isn’t this u it of stormfiends.

-and make them cheaper.

Those two points for stormfiends are in my opinion missing, although the price decrease in my opinion is only necessary when adding the risk factor when using stormfiends.

[Riff_Raff_Rascal]

Why do stormfiends have the same save as rat ogres? same wounds to boot? They are literally wearing power armor. Ugh. Make them cheaper, if they're afraid of MMMWP making them OP, just make them unable to be reinforced.

I need independent operators that don't need no man. 

[Skreech Verminking]

24 minutes ago, Riff_Raff_Rascal said:

Why do stormfiends have the same save as rat ogres? same wounds to boot? They are literally wearing power armor. Ugh. Make them cheaper, if they're afraid of MMMWP making them OP, just make them unable to be reinforced.

I need independent operators that don't need no man. 

The reason they did that is probably to just say they updated the rat ogre warscroll, which in fact was just a part of 3 different mutation you could give them via the broken realms book.

sadly only one stayed and the rest got removed as it is with halve of the missing stuff removed from the new book.

Personally they didn’t care about the skaven and the battletome is sadly a good example for their laziness

[W1tchhunter]

8 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

The reason they did that is probably to just say they updated the rat ogre warscroll, which in fact was just a part of 3 different mutation you could give them via the broken realms book.

sadly only one stayed and the rest got removed as it is with halve of the missing stuff removed from the new book.

Personally they didn’t care about the skaven and the battletome is sadly a good example for their laziness

I was under the wide eyed hopeful bunch when we only got one model for our battletome that GW  was holding off updating the armies like skaven beasts and seraphon till the old world. 

But with seraphon getting a massive refresh with there new book I've decided GW just hate skaven and BOC

[Lord Krungharr]

4 hours ago, W1tchhunter said:

I was under the wide eyed hopeful bunch when we only got one model for our battletome that GW  was holding off updating the armies like skaven beasts and seraphon till the old world. 

But with seraphon getting a massive refresh with there new book I've decided GW just hate skaven and BOC

BOOOOOOOO!!!!!  Seraphon will NERFED, at least a little bit.  On the other claw, WE got deepstriking masses of 60 rats loaded with sneaky machine guns:

Clawlord (tunnel master, warpstone charm)

ArchWarlock (nightflyer cloak)

Plague Priest

2x60 Clanrats

1x20 Clanrats

12 Ratling Guns

2 Warp Grinders

Doomflayer

Vermintide

2000 pts......201 wounds.  KA-POW!

Edited January 28, 2023 by Lord Krungharr

[Skreech Verminking]

On 1/28/2023 at 5:52 PM, Lord Krungharr said:

BOOOOOOOO!!!!!  Seraphon will NERFED, at least a little bit.  On the other claw, WE got deepstriking masses of 60 rats loaded with sneaky machine guns:

Clawlord (tunnel master, warpstone charm)

ArchWarlock (nightflyer cloak)

Plague Priest

2x60 Clanrats

1x20 Clanrats

12 Ratling Guns

2 Warp Grinders

Doomflayer

Vermintide

2000 pts......201 wounds.  KA-POW!

Firstly I love that list, secondly I was able to get a read on the new ghb, I know I’m a bit laid but I wasn’t interested to read through some badly done potato cam shots, when I could get a better view over the official rule, although it didn’t really matter too much as I was unable to secure one ghb in my preferred language, so I’m still waiting for its arrival.

Non then no less, I still would like to prefer towards one of the combination we skaven players have been chittering with high hopes for stormvermins.

I believe everyvody has heard of the combination with the deathmaster equipped with the artefact that lets him

attack first in the combat phase, while accompanied by a bodyguard unit via the new battailons of stormvermins.

While many of us including myself thought that this could mean the return of stormvermins, as they are great damage dealers, while some consider them even the best damage dealers in the wholesome of aos, I must admit, that I sadly don’t believe that being the case

with the current prize reduction stormvermins are sitting at a 130points of cost.

at 30 they will cost 390points and at a unit size of 20 their cost lies on 260.

now My believe is, that a unit of plague censer bearers is in every way better then the stormvermins we hope to see being played one day.

the reason why I believe that plague censer bearers are the better bodyguard unit for the deathmaster, is because of their raw damage potential.

every mode in this unit does 3attacks hitting and wounding the enemy just like any stormvermin would, and while they do trend to have the same amount of rend, plague censer bearers have a damage characteristic of 2 instead of one.

with the current points plague censer bearers are in a raw damage potential kind of state at every kind of way better then stormvermins.

A unit of 20 stormvermins cost 260points while a unit of 15 plague censer bearers cost 10 points more.

the different yet can be seen at the attacks characteristic as 15 plague censer bearers will throw out 45 attacks if they haven’t charged or 60 attacks if they jave with damage 2 on the enemy.

while 20 stormvermins will be attacking with 41 attacks at damage 1.

What makes 15plague censer bearers of the price for 20stormvermins so interesting though is probably that their damage potential is even more then that of 30stormvermins, while they will be attacking with 60attacks, those attacks are still just one damage.

now you can buff stormvermins up in such a way they could gain another 2 attacks (the new ca or gnash gnaw on their bones and skavenbrew, yet so can the plague censer bearers be buffed as well, but better.

While gnash gnaw on their teeths doesn’t work on pestilence unit we have rabid-rabid, a prayer that does exactly the same thing.

giving them skavenbrew and activating the new ca, allows us to give plague censer bearers 3 extra attacks, so basically every plague censer bearer is now attacking with 7attacks if it made a charge, which allows it to basically deal a 100attacks, and while a unit of 30 stormvermins can put out a 120attacks, we do have to remember that the full raw damage output if everything hits and wounds and not a single save is made would still be just a 120,

while plague censer bearers if everything hits and wounds and no save were successfully made would deal 200damage.

all in all plague censer bearers are just in my opinion in every way better then stormvermins

 

[Skreech Verminking]

On 1/28/2023 at 12:37 PM, Riff_Raff_Rascal said:

Why do stormfiends have the same save as rat ogres? same wounds to boot? They are literally wearing power armor. Ugh. Make them cheaper, if they're afraid of MMMWP making them OP, just make them unable to be reinforced.

I need independent operators that don't need no man. 

I should also mention to my last point ,

personally I don’t mind if they get reinforced, but something I’m really missing with stormfiends is the risk factor.

if we lowered their points by a bit and added in a rule, where every unmodified hit role of 1 would hit the nearest friendly unit withing range that isn’t this unit of stormfiends, I think the unit in total would not only fee more skaveny, but would also make them a bit more risky to play when having your heroes to near.

Edit: as for rat ogres, personally Gw did a terrible job.

and I really do not think that rat ogres are in need of being this unit that is basically what stormfiends are just worser.

I really believe that the idea of the mutation table for rat ogre was a great idea, this is probably something they should have sticked to, adding in the mutations either through the allegiance abilities or making it some sort of an ability that is given to them on their warscrolls.

Personally I am currently working on some add on content to my fan made skaven faq.

In which I am including mutations for giant rats and rat ogres, and changing the moulder allegiance abilities a bit up, as I personally don’t like the rule of three they made, at least not the way they made it.

it should be different 

Edited January 31, 2023 by Skreech Verminking