The Rumour Thread

[Arzalyn]

50 minutes ago, MythicKhan said:

I seriously wonder about the benefits of these faction previews to advertise and build hype for a new edition.

They are exciting and intriguing in and of themselves, but the online discourse always then kills the mood with people declaring that the sky is falling.

I dunno... I'm not sure what else they could do in the space. Maybe breakdown a single warscroll each day instead? In detail?

My hypothesis is that while it generated lot of negative buzz, in don't have much of a negative effect. Imagine many negative reactions usually die out after people discuss more and see other points of views. Also, the negativity doesn't get to the point people leave the hobby. On the contraire, since 4e has been announced I've being more and more new players coming to those communities asking for advice in picking a faction to start. The factions focus and negative posts didn't change that in anyway so far.

[Jagged Red Lines]

1 hour ago, MythicKhan said:

I seriously wonder about the benefits of these faction previews to advertise and build hype for a new edition.

They are exciting and intriguing in and of themselves, but the online discourse always then kills the mood with people declaring that the sky is falling.

I dunno... I'm not sure what else they could do in the space. Maybe breakdown a single warscroll each day instead? In detail?

I think there's a few issues. People have spent hundreds of pounds and hundreds of hours painting their armies. And they may have played dozens, if not hundreds of games with their army.

They invested all that time and money into the army because of a specific playstyle which they enjoy. For ogors it may have been the adrenaline hit of charge mortals.

It's understandable if the army is completely overhauled to the extent it no longer plays the same at all (ie. trampling charge) that people may be upset. You may not understand that, because it doesn't affect you personally, or you may have never been invested in an army to the same extent before. 

It's not about 'negativity', it's people who care a lot being upset and wanting to express themselves. 

Personally, I'm going to take the ogors and kragnos out for a GT next month and enjoy the dopamine of boosted trampling charges while I can. Afterward, they'll go away in the loft. 

Conversely, what I heard yesterday about tzeentch has me interested in them as a new army. But I totally understand and emphasise with the backlash from established tzeentch players.

Sometimes change, especially when its major and to something you are familiar with and love, is unwelcome.

[Gitzdee]

Many people just cant handle change. We dont know if its good or bad yet.

Also, these are just index rules. Dont compare them to the tomes.

Dont know if im the only one, but i quite like everything i have seen so far. It seems like they have put some thought into redesigning 4th edition and i am happy to try it out. Especially since i didnt like 3rd that much compared to 2nd edition.

Edited May 30 by Gitzdee

[Jagged Red Lines]

2 minutes ago, Gitzdee said:

Also, these are just index rules. Dont compare them to the tomes.

Lol, say that in three years time when your army is still using the index, while everyone else is riding the high wave of power creep with their respective tomes. If you're unlucky, you might only have a proper book for six months before the next edition rolls around again.

[ArcLight]

8 hours ago, ScionOfOssia said:

I’m curious as to how they’re going to do the OBR now that I think about it- Deathless Warriors is baked in as a native 6+ Ward, Relentless Discipline needs to be reworked (again), Ranks Unbroken By Dissent means nothing without Battleshock, which leaves Nadirite Weapons which could be baked into the scrolls, and Ossiarch Commands which would eat up most of a page. 

They could just have them similar to Cities of Sigmar for the index - I.e. the battle traits are boiled down to ~4 special commands/orders they can use. The 6+ Ward and Nadirite Weapons - Crit (2 Hits) - will just be on the warscrolls I would've thought. 

[Ejecutor]

10 minutes ago, Gitzdee said:

Many people just cant handle change. We dont know if its good or bad yet.

Also, these are just index rules. Dont compare them to the tomes.

Dont know if im the only one, but i quite like everything i have seen so far. It seems like they have put some thought into redesigning 4th edition and i am happy to try it out. Especially since i didnt like 3rd that much compared to 2nd edition.

Definitely the new rules team "knows what they are doing" or at least how to give the community some stuff to be delighted with.

[Chikout]

5 hours ago, Tonhel said:

Yet, the AoS ruleset seems very focussed on tournament games.

Edit: And GW balances the game through tournament results.

This is another point I disagree with. Tournament players don’t want a simplified game with a lower skill floor. Tournament players certainly don’t want underdog mechanics. GW uses tournament data to balance the game but they are doing that for new players. If I’m a tournament player, I’m already fully invested. I’ve bought and painted a 2000 point army and agreed to pay more money to play the game. If I lose at the bottom or round 2, I’ll be annoyed but I’ll move on and play the next game. If I’m a new player I get thrashed in my first few games by an army that is simply better than mine, there’s a fair chance I might just decide that gaming isn’t for me. The balance is for that new player more than the tournament player. 
They use tournament data because it’s much easier to gather that than it is to visit everyone’s garages or living rooms and ask them how their game went. 

[Rachmani]

A better balanced game will also ultimately lead to a better casual experience.

That‘s why internal & external balance bith matter.

In the matter of Kragnos I have had the experience so far, that he‘s only problematic when you play a) on the more casual side & b) bring different types of lists. Once both Kragnos & Nagash face off, Both sides start overkilling stuff.

[Gitzdee]

51 minutes ago, Jagged Red Lines said:

Lol, say that in three years time when your army is still using the index, while everyone else is riding the high wave of power creep with their respective tomes. If you're unlucky, you might only have a proper book for six months before the next edition rolls around again.

How is this different from any other edition? These things are unavoidable unless they release all tomes at once. At least we are all starting with a fresh index now.

[ScionOfOssia]

1 hour ago, Jagged Red Lines said:

Lol, say that in three years time when your army is still using the index, while everyone else is riding the high wave of power creep with their respective tomes. If you're unlucky, you might only have a proper book for six months before the next edition rolls around again.

I’ll take being able to even play the same game as everyone else, because OBR were unplayable until their tome. 

[Vasshpit]

Why these faction focus articles don't go more in depth so players might actually have more to latch onto, and prep for so as to hit the ground running day one is beyond me. 🤪

 

Don't do my bog boyz wrong, Geedubs. 

Don't you zogging do it...  

[KarrWolves]

1 hour ago, Chikout said:

This is another point I disagree with. Tournament players don’t want a simplified game with a lower skill floor. Tournament players certainly don’t want underdog mechanics. GW uses tournament data to balance the game but they are doing that for new players. If I’m a tournament player, I’m already fully invested. I’ve bought and painted a 2000 point army and agreed to pay more money to play the game. If I lose at the bottom or round 2, I’ll be annoyed but I’ll move on and play the next game. If I’m a new player I get thrashed in my first few games by an army that is simply better than mine, there’s a fair chance I might just decide that gaming isn’t for me. The balance is for that new player more than the tournament player. 
They use tournament data because it’s much easier to gather that than it is to visit everyone’s garages or living rooms and ask them how their game went. 

I'm a tournament player and even though I'm usually at the top tables I'm definitely for a lower skill floor: easy to learn, hard to master is great imo.

And I'm pretty neutral to underdog mechanics.

So please don't say "Tournament players don't want X", just say that you, as a tournament player, don't want it.

[Chikout]

20 minutes ago, KarrWolves said:

I'm a tournament player and even though I'm usually at the top tables I'm definitely for a lower skill floor: easy to learn, hard to master is great imo.

And I'm pretty neutral to underdog mechanics.

So please don't say "Tournament players don't want X", just say that you, as a tournament player, don't want it.

Apologies. That was a bit of a generalisation. I'm actually not a tournament player myself. I'm basing it off players I've talked to and interviews I've seen. I was trying to make a point that balance is not done primarily for tournament players but for new players who might be more badly effected by a negative experience. 

[KarrWolves]

1 minute ago, Chikout said:

Apologies. That was a bit of a generalisation. I'm actually not a tournament player myself. I'm basing it off players I've talked to and interviews I've seen. I was trying to make a point that balance is not done primarily for tournament players but for new players who might be more badly effected by a negative experience. 

No worries

I've talked to the lead designer and he seems to really want to make the game both easier to access for newer player but still interesting for tournament players.

That's not an easy task though, we'll see soon if his team succeeded or not! (I'm quite optimistic personally)

[ScionOfOssia]

12 minutes ago, KarrWolves said:

No worries

I've talked to the lead designer and he seems to really want to make the game both easier to access for newer player but still interesting for tournament players.

That's not an easy task though, we'll see soon if his team succeeded or not! (I'm quite optimistic personally)

Honestly, there’s a lot of doomsaying at the moment but I suspect it’s due to them being salty that their faction got nerfed. I’m fully expecting OBR to lose some Rend, Protection of Nagash and either Soul Release or Mortal Contract (Though I hope it’s not Mortal Contract or that spell is transferred to Vokmortian because it’s thematic for him). I’m also expecting Katakros to lose Do Nothing! This One Is Mine! 

[Neverchosen]

Sorry if I missed it in the article but with the Ogor Mawtribes keyword is Kragnos locked to one faction now?

Sorry if I missed this answer but I am having a hard time finding an answer while reading through the rampant speculation of competitive viability. 

[Gailon]

6 minutes ago, Neverchosen said:

Sorry if I missed it in the article but with the Ogor Mawtribes keyword is Kragnos locked to one faction now?

Sorry if I missed this answer but I am having a hard time finding an answer while reading through the rampant speculation of competitive viability. 

Nagash also had the keyword, but somewhere it was confirmed that he will have a warscroll in each index with the keyword for each faction. But I’m sorry I can’t remember where that was confirmed. 

[Chikout]

6 minutes ago, Gailon said:

Nagash also had the keyword, but somewhere it was confirmed that he will have a warscroll in each index with the keyword for each faction. But I’m sorry I can’t remember where that was confirmed. 

It was in the article that first talked about warscrolls. I'm sure it will be the same for Kragnos. 

[Mutton]

1 hour ago, ScionOfOssia said:

Honestly, there’s a lot of doomsaying at the moment but I suspect it’s due to them being salty that their faction got nerfed. I’m fully expecting OBR to lose some Rend, Protection of Nagash and either Soul Release or Mortal Contract (Though I hope it’s not Mortal Contract or that spell is transferred to Vokmortian because it’s thematic for him). I’m also expecting Katakros to lose Do Nothing! This One Is Mine! 

It's not about power level. It's about the Mawtribes losing basically everything that made them fun and replacing those rules with abilities that do almost nothing or literally have a chance of doing nothing. They didn't even use the full page to write new traits. It feels very low effort compared to what we've seen from everyone else. The ogres got punched harder than any faction we've seen previewed thus far. It's the only preview that trashed my excitement to play a faction.

Mawtribes players have a right to feel gutted (no pun intended).

[Dragon-knight77]

1 hour ago, Neverchosen said:

Sorry if I missed it in the article but with the Ogor Mawtribes keyword is Kragnos locked to one faction now?

Sorry if I missed this answer but I am having a hard time finding an answer while reading through the rampant speculation of competitive viability. 

[JackStreicher]

6 hours ago, Jagged Red Lines said:

Lol, say that in three years time when your army is still using the index, while everyone else is riding the high wave of power creep with their respective tomes. If you're unlucky, you might only have a proper book for six months before the next edition rolls around again.

It’s sadly how the edition cycle usually goes.

4.0 looks way better than 3.0. I pretty much quit AoS for the past months except for a 2vs2. The game currently isn’t fun to me. It’s bloated and the mortality is completely out of whack.

That‘s the nice part about the current ToW: I get to play with my minis while in 40K and AoS one is constantly removing models. 

[Beliman]

1 hour ago, Mutton said:

It's not about power level. It's about the Mawtribes losing basically everything that made them fun and replacing those rules with abilities that do almost nothing or literally have a chance of doing nothing.

I completely understand that.

I periodically have the same conversation with the national Kharadron group, and some people just focus on what we lost (The Code, Subfaction, Aethergold, Vehicles, Endless Spells/Spell in the Bottle, Special Weapons like Grapnel launchers, etc...), and even if they are right, I think that this edition has more flavour than the last one because each race has their own stats, and just that makes the whole game more coherent, and in return, it's easier to believe AoS as an "universe", something that I can't say about 3rd edition.

Don't get me wrong, all armies lost some stuff in the process, and I believe that Battletomes will not bring back any fo this stuff in the same form as before. Without knowing anything about Mawtribes, how do they compare with the other faction focuses? Not about power level (that it's hard to tell without the full picture and points), but how many flavourful things they lost?

[AquaRegis]

8 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

 

That‘s the nice part about the current ToW: I get to play with my minis while in 40K and AoS one is constantly removing models. 

Its the current state of GW unfortunalty. 

The two main games, get most of the attention so steady the bloat and cost for the game increases, and a the once or twice a year a busted codex comes out which shakes up the entire meta (Votann), which gets nerfed after a few months. Every month or so a ew expansion book roles out for £30 which while adding some interesting rules and lore, just adds more bloat. outside of one semi-official tournament i never used the Gallet rules ever. 

Meanwhile the specialist games like TOW, HH, MESBG, necromunda have a lower cost (hh-tow being an exception to an extent), have a tighter rule set that releases all at once so internal balancing can happen afterwards and theres no new shocks to the system like in 40k, and allow you way more flexability for hobbying and gameplay. The fact that for example Tomb Guard chariots exist and have rules, despite never having models is indicative to me that theres an emphasis of "your dudes" rather then the stringent locked in rules that 40k and Aos have. 

Also the HH boxes and the TOW starter boxes are a way better value for money. for roughly the same price as a combat patrol or spear head, you get way more models and only really need to add a hero and lord to get going. With the price increase a 40k combat patrol will net you 20-30 models, 40 if you get one with chaff in it. 

[Someravella]

This Kragnos issue reminds me the when KB had VEW (hit rolls of 6+ made mortals). It was so good they were at the bottom of meta reviews every time (and they could use Kragnos, too!).

Edited May 31 by Someravella

[Someravella]

2 hours ago, Gailon said:

Nagash also had the keyword, but somewhere it was confirmed that he will have a warscroll in each index with the keyword for each faction. But I’m sorry I can’t remember where that was confirmed. 

Yes, but I wouldn't expect a different warscroll (I think it will only change the keywords).