The Rumour Thread

[Lucentia]

For what it's worth, I have basically 0 interest in a narrative campaign book series, I would rather just be able to buy a single book with the complete narrative content.  But I would be very interested in an AoS coffee table art/fluff/world almanac style tome.

Bah, I knew that would tip the top of the page as I was writing it!  Rumour-wise, I'd guess that the rumour engine is some sort of cyber-dog for a 40k weirdo.

Edited June 18 by Lucentia

[Snarff]

2 minutes ago, Ejecutor said:

From the vision I have of GW? Yes.

Just curious: If everything is fully about maximizing profit, why do you think that they haven't they cut smaller and less popular factions from the game? (BS and BoC were rumoured to be cut because of TOW, not sales numbers). Why do they even still have people writing BL books for AoS? Why do they put effort into systems like Path to Glory (special rules for every faction), Anvil of Apotheosis (especially in 4th for every faction separately), and books like Dawnbringers?

And if the answer to all of this is that they apparently still make a good enough profit, then why do you think further narrative content suddenly will not?

[Tonhel]

1 minute ago, Hollow said:

100% YES. The fundamental shift in strategy that Kenvin Rountree has overseen in how GW approaches its products, has been diversification. Kirby had the mentality of cutting more and more things that essentially didn't live up to 40k main lines and sailed the company into troubling, stagnant waters. 

I still think that Black Library should expand their offerings outside of Novels. I'd start by having technical books dedicated to Space Marine armour types. Nicely bound like cool Imperial tomes. Diagrams and spec sheets of the armour types, art etc. I think they would sell like hotcakes and pave the way to do something related to the Mortal Realms. 

One problem I think AoS has is that its lore is so scattered and difficult to enter. I see so many posts across the interwebs of people posting something along the lines of

- "Hey, I liked fantasy, I play 40k, AoS models look cool, 4th is coming up, just where the hell do I begin to wrap my head around the setting, are there infinite realms? What's happening?"

The fact there is still fundamental confusion about what the AoS setting is, should be a major priority for GW and the AoS design studio. 

100% agree, but it also seems that GW is now in a place that there is to much diversification. A lot of stuff temporarily out of stock, can't keep up with their own release schedule. Where is Warcry Briar and Bone? Where are the TOW dwarfs? Why wait so long with Dawnbringer 6 and etc.. It's imo a mess.

[Snarff]

21 minutes ago, Tonhel said:

Sadly, it seems that for GW it is. GW nowadays is churn and burn.

You could even say that Warhammer went downhil from the moment GW became obsessed with short-term profits.

 

I disagree that Warhammer went downhill. For me, it's only been uphill since AoS' launch. Of course, there are a few questionable decisions, but overall the direction has been great. The models have improved tremendously, the game (and by extent the community) has become a lot more diverse and welcoming. In general, the game and playerbase are growing and it has never been as easy for me to find people to play any fantasy (war)game with then it is now for AoS and Warcry. The lore is ever expanding and becoming more interesting with each book that releases.

Then again, I did never care for WFB and AoS with its lore and models are explicitly what drew me in.

Edited June 18 by Snarff

[Snarff]

5 minutes ago, Tonhel said:

100% agree, but it also seems that GW is now in a place that there is to much diversification. A lot of stuff temporarily out of stock, can't keep up with their own release schedule. Where is Warcry Briar and Bone? Where are the TOW dwarfs? Why wait so long with Dawnbringer 6 and etc.. It's imo a mess.

I think they've been 100% focusing on AoS4 and Skaventide for a while now. If it's going to be anything like Dominion (and dare I say it's looking better), it'll once again be the best fantasy launch GW ever for them. They need to be properly prepared to avoid another Cursed City fiasco.

I don't think they're diversifying too much, it's great that they're in the position to do so. Also, factories for books are not the same as those for plastic models.

The wait for Warcry sucks for sure, but we've also never had this many releases for Warcry this frequently before. The biggest problem with Warcry and DB6 IMO is that they announced them too early, the previous releases had barely even come out yet. They could easily have waited another month for both. But they did need to get everything out before AoS4 and 40K just had some big releases before, which probably messed up their schedule.

For TOW I kind of get that they announced Dwarfs early both since Orcs and Goblins apparently did not do very well (from what I've read at least) and since the only thing TOW is going to get for the forseeable future is faction releases. At least knowing which faction is coming is better than complete radio silence for months on end.

They're building a new factory too, so that's a really good sign that things are going well. That should relieve the problem a lot too.

[Hollow]

Just now, Tonhel said:

100% agree, but it also seems that GW is now in a place that there is to much diversification. A lot of stuff temporarily out of stock, can't keep up with their own release schedule. Where is Warcry Briar and Bone? Where are the TOW dwarfs? Why wait so long with Dawnbringer 6 and etc.. It's imo a mess.

A few points. 

GamesWorkshop, as a company, is (and has been) experiencing significant growing pains over the last several years. Those several years have included Brexit, a Global pandemic, Record inflation, electricity grid problems (They literally couldn't expand or do more as they were drawing maximum power from the grid running their 3 factories 24/7) and international conflicts which have driven utterly insane transportation and material cost fluctuations. 

A 4th new factory and large HQ expansion has just been announced (planned opening 2026, which is when I expect GW are hoping to really pop off with 11th edition tying in with potential Amazon content) 

With all that going on they have managed to become one of the THE BEST performing companies.... in. the. world. Think about that for a moment. With all of the stuff that has been going on, this plastic toy maker now has a market cap of over 3 BILLION pounds. 

This was achieved through a number of ways, but one of them has been to understand that a product's "success" should be considered in several different ways. It's all about considering the percentage return on investment rather than directly comparing one product to another. 

If you invest £100,000 in product A and it returns £1,000,000, and £100,000 in product B and it returns £200,000, both products have been a great success! In the past Product B would have been seen as a failure because it didn't perform as well as Product A. The point is that as long as the product makes a profit, it's a success. Full stop. 

If you know your products will turn a profit and the question is more "just how much profit", then the answer is to release as many different products as you can. Which is what GW is doing. 

People have also become a bit insatiable (Which GW has happily driven) You have some people crying "ToW is dead, they haven't had an article in a month! No support for the system!

and I'm over here thinking, damn, they have released over 100 kits, had 3 made to order runs, released 6 publications previewed a 4th faction and talked about plans for the future. In six months.... When I started fantasy 25+ years ago, you'd be lucky for a singular update in a year! 

 

 

 

[Hollow]

12 minutes ago, Snarff said:

For TOW I kind of get that they announced Dwarfs early both since Orcs and Goblins apparently did not do very well (from what I've read at least)

PS - a bit sad to see misinformation being taken as read almost in real-time. The narrative that O+G "did not do well" posted online by somebody who "feels" that's the case or has spoken to a couple of FLGS owners or read completely unverified forum posts. 

[Big Kim Woof-Woof]

1 hour ago, Snarff said:

I want it to be written by a collection of in-universe scholars. Humans, Aelves, Duardin, maybe even Orruks?

There's so much potential for books to really flesh out the mortal realms. A bestiary, botanical guides, geography of known regions, history books, etc.

I've always maintained that the Liber Chaotica books were some of the best material ever produced for Warhammer. Stuff in their vein for AoS would be glorious. 

[Tonhel]

14 minutes ago, Snarff said:

I disagree that Warhammer went downhill. For me, it's only been uphill since AoS' launch. Of course, there are a few questionable decisions, but overall the direction has been great. The models have improved tremendously, the game (and by extent the community) has become a lot more diverse and welcoming. In general, the game and playerbase are growing and it has never been as easy for me to find people to play any fantasy (war)game with then it is now for AoS and Warcry. The lore is ever expanding and becoming more interesting with each book that releases.

Then again, I did never care for WFB and AoS and its lore and models are explicitly what drew me in.

I should have been more clear. With Warhammer I didn't mean Age of Sigmar, but Warhammer the mass ranked battle game.

About the models that are improving tremendously, that is simple technological advancement. Which is ofcourse fantastic.

About the other stuff of your post I can't really comment as that is anecdotal evidence.

 

10 minutes ago, Snarff said:

I think they've been 100% focusing on AoS4 and Skaventide for a while now. If it's going to be anything like Dominion (and dare I say it's looking better), it'll once again be the best fantasy launch GW ever for them. They need to be properly prepared to avoid another Cursed City fiasco.

I don't think they're diversifying too much, it's great that they're in the position to do so. Also, factories for books are not the same as those for plastic models.

The wait for Warcry sucks for sure, but we've also never had this many releases for Warcry this frequently before. The biggest problem with Warcry and DB6 IMO is that they announced them too early, the previous releases had barely even come out yet. They could easily have waited another month for both. But they did need to get everything out before AoS4 and 40K just had some big releases before, which probably messed up their schedule.

For TOW I kind of get that they announced Dwarfs early both since Orcs and Goblins apparently did not do very well (from what I've read at least) and since the only thing TOW is going to get for the forseeable future is faction releases. At least knowing which faction is coming is better than complete radio silence for months on end.

They're building a new factory too, so that's a really good sign that things are going well. That should relieve the problem a lot too.

I could be mistaken, but isn't there always a big drought after a new edition be it AoS or 40K? Around october until early spring? 

The selling or not selling of those old O&G mini's has nothing to do with the dwarfs. It just means that dwarfs were never planned before AoS 4th edition.

Anyway a lot will much clearer when the next financial report arrives.

[Clan's Cynic]

Slaves to Darkness Faction Focus. Ironjawz tomorrow.

Edited June 18 by Clan's Cynic

[Dragon-knight77]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/06/18/warhammer-age-of-sigmar-faction-focus-slaves-to-darkness/

Wasn't the chaos chariot in ToW? Or am i misremembering it

[Big Kim Woof-Woof]

3 minutes ago, Dragon-knight77 said:

 

Wasn't the chaos chariot in ToW? Or am i misremembering it

It definitely was. 

Edited June 18 by Big Kim Woof-Woof

[Tonhel]

8 minutes ago, Hollow said:

A few points. 

GamesWorkshop, as a company, is (and has been) experiencing significant growing pains over the last several years. Those several years have included Brexit, a Global pandemic, Record inflation, electricity grid problems (They literally couldn't expand or do more as they were drawing maximum power from the grid running their 3 factories 24/7) and international conflicts which have driven utterly insane transportation and material cost fluctuations. 

A 4th new factory and large HQ expansion has just been announced (planned opening 2026, which is when I expect GW are hoping to really pop off with 11th edition tying in with potential Amazon content) 

With all that going on they have managed to become one of the THE BEST performing companies.... in. the. world. Think about that for a moment. With all of the stuff that has been going on, this plastic toy maker now has a market cap of over 3 BILLION pounds. 

This was achieved through a number of ways, but one of them has been to understand that a product's "success" should be considered in several different ways. It's all about considering the percentage return on investment rather than directly comparing one product to another. 

If you invest £100,000 in product A and it returns £1,000,000, and £100,000 in product B and it returns £200,000, both products have been a great success! In the past Product B would have been seen as a failure because it didn't perform as well as Product A. The point is that as long as the product makes a profit, it's a success. Full stop. 

If you know your products will turn a profit and the question is more "just how much profit", then the answer is to release as many different products as you can. Which is what GW is doing. 

People have also become a bit insatiable (Which GW has happily driven) You have some people crying "ToW is dead, they haven't had an article in a month! No support for the system!

and I'm over here thinking, damn, they have released over 100 kits, had 3 made to order runs, released 6 publications previewed a 4th faction and talked about plans for the future. In six months.... When I started fantasy 25+ years ago, you'd be lucky for a singular update in a year! 

 

 

 

You are 100% correct. :-), But as I posted today in the TOW subforum for a company with a market cap above 3 billion euro, they do really bizar stuff. (i.e the night goblin mob vs Stabbas).

[Clan's Cynic]

5 minutes ago, Dragon-knight77 said:

Wasn't the chaos chariot in ToW? Or am i misremembering it

There's still a decent chunk of StD stuff that's from the Warriors of Chaos days.

Manticore, Chariot, Spawn, Warshrine, Foot-Lord and Vortex Beast, and maybe others...? 

I think it's just one of those awkward lines for them where there's too much stuff that's iconic and/or core to both Fantasy and AoS, so they grit their teeth and allow them - for now - to co-existent.

Edited June 18 by Clan's Cynic

[Ejecutor]

38 minutes ago, Snarff said:

Just curious: If everything is fully about maximizing profit, why do you think that they haven't they cut smaller and less popular factions from the game? (BS and BoC were rumoured to be cut because of TOW, not sales numbers). Why do they even still have people writing BL books for AoS? Why do they put effort into systems like Path to Glory (special rules for every faction), Anvil of Apotheosis (especially in 4th for every faction separately), and books like Dawnbringers?

And if the answer to all of this is that they apparently still make a good enough profit, then why do you think further narrative content suddenly will not?

Because it is an established pattern that, if they cut those then it would backslash them, but going outside of that? I just don't see it.

Everyone in this forum can agree that they will be ace, but we are the fans between the fans and our vision is not 100% objective.

[Thaliontil]

10 minutes ago, Clan's Cynic said:

Slaves to Darkness Faction Focus. Ironjawz tomorrow.

Very excited with this. I like how the Chaos Knights can actually kill something now, instead of merely being a Nurgly rock (although 4 health! That is very good). And love the change to simplify and improve Eye of the Gods. Will miss the flavourful options of spawn and daemon prince, though

[Ejecutor]

14 minutes ago, Hollow said:

PS - a bit sad to see misinformation being taken as read almost in real-time. The narrative that O+G "did not do well" posted online by somebody who "feels" that's the case or has spoken to a couple of FLGS owners or read completely unverified forum posts. 

I would say this is the sentiment of a few and not just one individual.

[TrawlingCleaner]

So we've got some AoS videos due to be released this weekend looking at content creator's schedules. I'm assuming these will be the "How to Play" videos similar to 40k where they released a couple of weeks before Indexes and Core Rules.

Using TableTopTactics and WHC articles as a guide as I can see all their releases for 40k they had:

 

Spoiler

Thurs 1st June: Interview with Lead Developer

Fri 2nd June: Core Rules chat (Core Rules PDF released then too)

Sat 3rd June: How to Play

Tues 6th June: Review of the entire Leviathan box and book

Thurs 8th June: Tyrandi Index review (and Release)

Fri 9th June: SM Index review (and Release)

10th June: Leviathan Preorders

Another week of Index reviews as they release in chunks based on Imperium, Chaos and Xenos over several days

Sat 16th June: Full battlereport

Tues 20th June: Combat Patrol rules released

Sat 24th June: Leviathan Releases

 

So assuming they're using the same schedule for AoS we're likely to see:
 

Spoiler

Thurs 20th June: Interviews with Lead Developer

Fri 21st June: Core Rules released

Sat 22nd June: How to Plays from various Content Creators

Thurs 27th June: Skaven Index release

Fri 28th June: Stormcast Index Release

Sat 29th June: Skaventide Preorders

Another week of Index releases as they release them in in GAs so something like: Order Monday, Destruction Tuesday, Death Wednesday, Chaos Thursday

Sat 6th July: Full battlereports from Content Creators

Tues 9th July: Spearhead rules released

Sat 24th June: Skaventide Releases

Seems reasonable?

[Ejecutor]

11 minutes ago, Dragon-knight77 said:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/06/18/warhammer-age-of-sigmar-faction-focus-slaves-to-darkness/

Wasn't the chaos chariot in ToW? Or am i misremembering it

To Spearhead or not to Spearhead. That's the... WAAAAGHH!!!

We will see it tomorrow.

Edited June 18 by Ejecutor

[Matrindur]

Clearly The Old World didn't work out so they should just discontinue it and release a prequel called "The Older World" ^^

[cyrus]

12 minutes ago, Clan's Cynic said:

There's still a decent chunk of StD stuff that's from the Warriors of Chaos days.

Manticore, Chariot, Spawn, Warshrine, Foot-Lord and Vortex Beast, and maybe others...? 

I think it's just one of those awkward lines for them where there's too much stuff that's iconic and/or core to both Fantasy and AoS, so they grit their teeth and allow them - for now - to co-existent.

Warshrine , Spawn and Vortex beasts are not part of ToW WoC armylist.

Lately chaos sorcerer has been discontinued to be moved to ToW in the future.

So basically now only Chariot, Manticore and foot lord  are in common. 

 

Edited June 18 by cyrus

[Snarff]

10 minutes ago, Hollow said:

PS - a bit sad to see misinformation being taken as read almost in real-time. The narrative that O+G "did not do well" posted online by somebody who "feels" that's the case or has spoken to a couple of FLGS owners or read completely unverified forum posts. 

Oh I never meant to present it as a fact, just the general sentiment around it that I've seen (not just here). It's not taken as read, that's why I said 'apparently' and added a disclaimer immediately after it. I tried to be careful with my wording, but this thread is made for rumour and speculation is it not?

With Bret and TK it seems there was positive surprise, with orcs it seems negative. Of course, both of these don't say much.

For the initial launxh GW just said the scope of TOW changed, but not to which extent. The earliest TOW previews had great plans about cathay and kislev but those are completely MIA from everything right now without explanation. Yet people seem to have taken it as fact that TOW is going to get new factions even when it GWs comment might just mean that TOW releases go at a faster pace.Everything remains to be seen.

[cyrus]

5 minutes ago, Ejecutor said:

To Spearhead or not to Spearhead. That's the... WAAAAGHH!!!

We will see it tomorrow.

My bet for the Spearhead !!! 😉

[Tonhel]

10 minutes ago, Thaliontil said:

Very excited with this. I like how the Chaos Knights can actually kill something now, instead of merely being a Nurgly rock (although 4 health! That is very good). And love the change to simplify and improve Eye of the Gods. Will miss the flavourful options of spawn and daemon prince, though

Yeah! As a StD player myself everything shown looks good to very good. I was in doubt to start a new army with 4th, but after reading the StD faction focus I can only say that I will not betray my Chaos army. 

[cyrus]

12 minutes ago, TrawlingCleaner said:

So we've got some AoS videos due to be released this weekend looking at content creator's schedules. I'm assuming these will be the "How to Play" videos similar to 40k where they released a couple of weeks before Indexes and Core Rules.

Using TableTopTactics and WHC articles as a guide as I can see all their releases for 40k they had:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Thurs 1st June: Interview with Lead Developer

Fri 2nd June: Core Rules chat (Core Rules PDF released then too)

Sat 3rd June: How to Play

Tues 6th June: Review of the entire Leviathan box and book

Thurs 8th June: Tyrandi Index review (and Release)

Fri 9th June: SM Index review (and Release)

10th June: Leviathan Preorders

Another week of Index reviews as they release in chunks based on Imperium, Chaos and Xenos over several days

Sat 16th June: Full battlereport

Tues 20th June: Combat Patrol rules released

Sat 24th June: Leviathan Releases

 

So assuming they're using the same schedule for AoS we're likely to see:
 

  Hide contents

Thurs 20th June: Interviews with Lead Developer

Fri 21st June: Core Rules released

Sat 22nd June: How to Plays from various Content Creators

Thurs 27th June: Skaven Index release

Fri 28th June: Stormcast Index Release

Sat 29th June: Skaventide Preorders

Another week of Index releases as they release them in in GAs so something like: Order Monday, Destruction Tuesday, Death Wednesday, Chaos Thursday

Sat 6th July: Full battlereports from Content Creators

Tues 9th July: Spearhead rules released

Sat 24th June: Skaventide Releases

Seems reasonable?

we know for sure that :

Wednesday 19th : Ironjawz !!!!

Thursday 20 th : Sylvaneth (probably)

Friday 21th : Khorne (probably)

 

So Core rules release should be at the beginning of next week and then indexes and so on.

Edited June 18 by cyrus