Magnus The Blue Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 No universal prayer or spell lores! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neverchosen Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 I feel like the way people are talking about Chaos Warriors, is not really considering that they are not simply armoured Darkoath but highly trained and disciplined expressions of the military might of Archaon's unending warmachine. Keep in mind that a large number of Chaos Warriors have dedicated themselves in part or fully to Khorne. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arzalyn Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 (edited) Also no universal artifacts or traits! Edited June 21 by Arzalyn 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Red King Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Neverchosen said: I feel like the way people are talking about Chaos Warriors, is not really considering that they are not simply armoured Darkoath but highly trained and disciplined expressions of the military might of Archaon's unending warmachine. Keep in mind that a large number of Chaos Warriors have dedicated themselves in part or fully to Khorne. The problem is a chaos warrior dedicated to khorne is better at fighting than a blood warrior who's entirely dedicated to khorne. Points aside that doesn't make sense. It's fine. Maybe Beasts of Chaos aligned to Khorne make better proxies for StD anyway. I liked running them Blades of Khorne for flavor but with only one faction rule the flavor is somewhat lacking anyway. Edited June 21 by The Red King 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonhel Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 15 minutes ago, MitGas said: Yeah, this feels hella wrong. If they wanna depict Khornates as raging who can‘t fight well, then they need to up their dmg or something in return. Khorne Lords have always been tremendous fighters, so the basic warriors that follow this path should be capable - at least on the level of vanilla CWs - as well. And the Curseling too. That‘s the one proper human fighter we have in DoT and he‘s on 4+/4+ Yeah, ignoring Slaanesh. This is one of my only complaints for Chaos. It not because you are berserking that you will miss more, maybe untrained mortals, but Blood Warriors are not mere mortals at all. It should have been a 3+/3+ while keeping the 3 attacks. They should be better in close combat than Chaos Warriors. The 2 mortal wounds on a 5+ when killed is nice, but I would have prefered a more formidable combat profile when alive. Same for the Curselings, they are described as formidable warriors and are hero class, so it is indeed a bit strange they are stuck with a 4+/4+. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neverchosen Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 1 minute ago, The Red King said: The problem is a chaos warrior dedicated to khorne is better at fighting than a blood warrior who's entirely dedicated to khorne. Points aside that doesn't make sense. I personally feel like a well disciplined Knight dedicated to a God of Murder riding under the banner of the Everchosen outclassing a maddened berserker makes sense to me. 🤷♂️ 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScionOfOssia Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 2 minutes ago, Neverchosen said: I personally feel like a well disciplined Knight dedicated to a God of Murder riding under the banner of the Everchosen outclassing a maddened berserker makes sense to me. 🤷♂️ Except they’re both maddened berserkers- One has a lot more blessing directly and it’s not the one in Chaos Undecided. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStreicher Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 (edited) Erm, I thought summoning was gone? Bloodthirster recursion sounds a hell lot like summoning tbh. It’s basically a Durthu with wings recursion Blades of Khorne look powerful Edited June 21 by JackStreicher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonhel Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 14 minutes ago, Magnus The Blue said: No universal prayer or spell lores! 6 minutes ago, Arzalyn said: Also no universal artifacts or traits! Is this from the Honest Wargamer stream? Damn, that's sad news. Not saying that I used the universal command traits or universal artifacts a lot, but I certainly liked mystic shield/arcane bolt. Not much choice if there is only 1 spell lore with 3 spells, 3 heroic traits, 3 artefacts of power. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arzalyn Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 1 minute ago, Tonhel said: Is this from the Honest Wargamer stream? Damn, that's sad news. Not saying that I used the universal command traits or universal artifacts a lot, but I certainly liked mystic shield/arcane bolt. Not much choice if there is only 1 spell lore with 3 spells, 3 heroic traits, 3 artefacts of power. It is, there are some pdf circling around with the pages from the stream. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Red King Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 8 minutes ago, Neverchosen said: I personally feel like a well disciplined Knight dedicated to a God of Murder riding under the banner of the Everchosen outclassing a maddened berserker makes sense to me. 🤷♂️ That would be the bloodreavers which judging from the blood warrior will be inexplicably worse at fighting than a marauder. Blood warriors are warriors (presumably chaos warriors) who fought so good Khorne blesses them and claims them as his own. If the blessing of khorne is -1 to hit with your melee attacks he's a pretty poor God of war don't you think? Like yes they are more berserk than a chaos warrior but that doesn't seem to come with any benefit except dying? It's just a flavor failure. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonhel Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Neverchosen said: I personally feel like a well disciplined Knight dedicated to a God of Murder riding under the banner of the Everchosen outclassing a maddened berserker makes sense to me. 🤷♂️ 9 minutes ago, ScionOfOssia said: Except they’re both maddened berserkers- One has a lot more blessing directly and it’s not the one in Chaos Undecided. I would say they lose a bit of their discipline with the pledge to Khorne "Khorne is the most violent and destructive of the four major Chaos Gods. He represents unrestrained aggression, mindless frenzy, and bloodshed on the battlefield." There is really no reason why a blood warrior who is basically a chaos warrior with the mark of Khorne should have a lower to hit attribute than a StD Chaos warrior with the Mark of Khorne. They are basically the same with the small difference that Blood Warriors went all the way compared to the chaos warriors. Edited June 21 by Tonhel 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Red King Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 6 minutes ago, Tonhel said: I would say they lose a bit of their discipline with the pledge to Khorne "Khorne is the most violent and destructive of the four major Chaos Gods. He represents unrestrained aggression, mindless frenzy, and bloodshed on the battlefield." There is really no reason why a blood warrior who is basically a chaos warrior with the mark of Khorne should have a lower to hit attribute than a StD Chaos warrior with the Mark of Khorne. They are basically the same with the small difference that Blood Warriors went all the way compared to the chaos warriors. I'll add that Skullfrays show that isn't a requirement. Khorne is also the God of Martial might and discipline. Skullfray beastmen march in ranks and columns like a real military thanks to the influence of Khorne though they do still devolve into brutal violence once the blood starts flowing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neverchosen Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 (edited) The reality is that with the addition of buffs and blood tithe points the Blood Warriors will eventually outclass a Chaos Warrior in combat. I just personally think that it makes sense that they loose a little of their discipline in reaching that frenzy but as blood starts to flow they will outclass a chaos warrior. But I also didn't write the rules I just think that I can see the logic behind it personally. Personally I would have given them a 4+, 3+ and then further increased the profile with an additional rend to show the brutality of aligning with Khorne. But again I didn't write the rules. Edited June 21 by Neverchosen 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucentia Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 If the intent is to limit save stacking Mystic Shield had to go, or be changed substantially, it's been a bit of a bugbear of mine throughout 3rd that the best spell in the game is the default option everybody learns in wizard school. Now, if they can't write 3 actually compelling/useful spell options for every lore than I may change my words, but on its face I don't think killing the generic lore is a bad move. Even if just from a narrative perspective, with different armies having fundamentally different magics. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScionOfOssia Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 2 minutes ago, Lucentia said: If the intent is to limit save stacking Mystic Shield had to go, or be changed substantially, it's been a bit of a bugbear of mine throughout 3rd that the best spell in the game is the default option everybody learns in wizard school. Now, if they can't write 3 actually compelling/useful spell options for every lore than I may change my words, but on its face I don't think killing the generic lore is a bad move. Even if just from a narrative perspective, with different armies having fundamentally different magics. It’s not even like Arcane Bolt wasn’t already outclassed in pretty much every faction besides the Idoneth (Who made up the difference with just having a few other legitimately good spells). Generic spells was basically just Lore of Mystic Shield. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cdance93 Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 (edited) 44 minutes ago, JackStreicher said: Erm, I thought summoning was gone? Bloodthirster recursion sounds a hell lot like summoning tbh. It’s basically a Durthu with wings recursion Blades of Khorne look powerful Literally several factions have gotten a recursion ability for even cheaper. heck - dead Alarielle can bring HERSELF back 8 BT is a hefty cost and they have to have died in the first place so no, this is not summoning Edited June 21 by Cdance93 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sahrial Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 9 minutes ago, ScionOfOssia said: It’s not even like Arcane Bolt wasn’t already outclassed in pretty much every faction besides the Idoneth (Who made up the difference with just having a few other legitimately good spells). Generic spells was basically just Lore of Mystic Shield. You’re not wrong. The only time I ever cast arcane bolt was when I ran out of valid targets for my other more useful spells, or really needed that one specific guaranteed mortal wound for a battle tactic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutton Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 I'm glad Blood Tithe still exists--most fun battle trait in the game. I'm sad Hatred of Sorcery is gone--my favorite battle trait in the game. Bloodthirsters getting non-random big damage is awesome. 5+ ward with the other greater daemons, also awesome. Bloodletters still cool. Surprised and happy to see a mixed mortal/daemon subfaction. We need more of those in AoS. Karanak still sucks and will probably always suck. They don't know what to do with that doggo. Blood Warriors being worse in combat than Chaos Warriors is ridiculous nonsense. Finally, onward to the Core Rules release and full Indexes! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonic Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 Bloodwarriors aren't chaos warriors marked by Khorne. They are bloodreavers ascending to bloodwarriors and are expressly stated to be beserkers. Conceptually they fit "marked chaos warriors" in the same way blightkings do, but they are very different things lorewise. Their product description: Spoiler Creatures whose rage has taken them over completely, who know nothing but the appropriate red mist of anger, whose fury is such that it literally radiates off them in visible waves of livid heat, the Blood Warriors of Khorne are a mass of intense aggression and sheer bloodlust. Even striking one down offers no respite, as even the most traumatically wounded of these terrifying warriors will fight on in a trancelike frenzy . They are absolutely less disciplined vs even the marked warriors of Archaon's legions who are much closer to the old school conception of a marked warrior. Swinging wild but with all the buffs doing better is where they should be. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jagged Red Lines Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 (edited) 1 hour ago, JackStreicher said: Bloodthirster recursion sounds a hell lot like summoning tbh. My favourite line in the whole preview. 'Pick a friendly... bloodthirster' Edited June 21 by Jagged Red Lines 2 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Red King Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Colonic said: Bloodwarriors aren't chaos warriors marked by Khorne. They are bloodreavers ascending to bloodwarriors and are expressly stated to be beserkers. Conceptually they fit "marked chaos warriors" in the same way blightkings do, but they are very different things lorewise. Their product description: Reveal hidden contents Creatures whose rage has taken them over completely, who know nothing but the appropriate red mist of anger, whose fury is such that it literally radiates off them in visible waves of livid heat, the Blood Warriors of Khorne are a mass of intense aggression and sheer bloodlust. Even striking one down offers no respite, as even the most traumatically wounded of these terrifying warriors will fight on in a trancelike frenzy . They are absolutely less disciplined vs even the marked warriors of Archaon's legions who are much closer to the old school conception of a marked warrior. Swinging wild but with all the buffs doing better is where they should be. Imagine if Slaanesh marked chaos warriors were faster than Painbringers nurlge marked tougher than blightkings (aren't they?) And tzeentch marked better than... oh sorry Mitgas. It's just dumb for chaos warriors (sorry warriors who are dedicated to the ruinous powers of chaos) blessed by a God to be worse at that gods speciality than chaos warriors dedicated to a God. Edited June 21 by The Red King 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonhel Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 (edited) 32 minutes ago, Colonic said: Bloodwarriors aren't chaos warriors marked by Khorne. They are bloodreavers ascending to bloodwarriors and are expressly stated to be beserkers. Conceptually they fit "marked chaos warriors" in the same way blightkings do, but they are very different things lorewise. Their product description: Hide contents Creatures whose rage has taken them over completely, who know nothing but the appropriate red mist of anger, whose fury is such that it literally radiates off them in visible waves of livid heat, the Blood Warriors of Khorne are a mass of intense aggression and sheer bloodlust. Even striking one down offers no respite, as even the most traumatically wounded of these terrifying warriors will fight on in a trancelike frenzy . They are absolutely less disciplined vs even the marked warriors of Archaon's legions who are much closer to the old school conception of a marked warrior. Swinging wild but with all the buffs doing better is where they should be. Valid points, but in what way does this mean that their to hit value should be worse than a chaos warrior? Suddently discipline is reflected in the To hit value? Martial combat skill is imo atleast of the same value and should be reflect in the To hit value. Now the Blood warrior is a lesser fighter compared to a chaos warrior with the mark of Khorne and has the exact same combat prowness of a squig. Imo, a 3+/3+ would have been more flavourful. 10 minutes ago, The Red King said: Imagine if Slaanesh marked chaos warriors were faster than Painbringers nurlge marked tougher than blightkings (aren't they?) And tzeentch marked better than... oh sorry Mitgas. It's just dumb for chaos warriors (sorry warriors who are dedicated to the ruinous powers of chaos) blessed by a God to be worse at that gods speciality than chaos warriors dedicated to a God. Exactly. Edited June 21 by Tonhel 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ejecutor Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 2 hours ago, Double Misfire said: They all started wearing armour and became Ironjawz/They all found religion and became the marked beastmen in the Tzeentch and Slaanesh lists? They all entered into a Realmgate to never be seen again. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitGas Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 22 minutes ago, The Red King said: Imagine if Slaanesh marked chaos warriors were faster than Painbringers nurlge marked tougher than blightkings (aren't they?) And tzeentch marked better than... oh sorry Mitgas. My time will come! 😤 ❤️ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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