cyrus Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 27 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said: Island of Blood was released on 2010 and discontinued as Spire of Dawn in 2017. I would hazard a guess that 7 years later it is not impacting sales of Skaventide anymore. I mean they really add nothing , same for new liberators . 1 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Red King Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 8 minutes ago, Tonhel said: I don't know. I have still those clanrats and one box of clanrats and the metal sling upgrade kit. I wish I still had the high elves from that set. The new clanrats are amazing, but in the big picture of a Skaven army there is zero reason to replace your clanrats with the 40 new ones. The difference is only noticeable from painting distance. The box should have had 20 stormvermin and 20 clanrats. About the box selling good or not. Perception wise you would think it isn't selling great, but this is common with lots of AoS boxes (I.e Darkoath armybox still available). But in the meantime GW is doing better each financial year. So they are certainly making a lot of profit with AoS. It's a relief that you have time to buy the box, hopefully this will be the future for Kill Team and TOW too. I am going to be really frustrated if the dwarfs Arcane Journal and new mini's are sold out before I can buy mine. I've still got a lot of those high elves if you're interested pm me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ejecutor Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 9 minutes ago, cyrus said: I mean they really add nothing , same for new liberators . If that's adding nothing... then I don't know why GW is producing new minis. 11 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michu Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 Honestly, maybe this kit is an upgrade sculpt-wise but it's a complete downgrade hobby-wise. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vakarian Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 18 minutes ago, cyrus said: I mean they really add nothing , same for new liberators . This is exactly why new Liberators were so enticing. After the Vindictors came out and the Thunderstrike armor update started, there is no way I was buying old Liberators. Having ten new ones in the Skaventide box was a huge selling point to get me back into working on Stormcast. As for the Skaven, I’m sure not everyone starting an army wants to hunt down old, OOP models on EBay or similar sites. Some will, but given the numbers of Skaventide made and the indications it’s actually selling pretty well, I doubt that’s a majority (when the main reason some people are seeing Skaventide as a failure is that it didn’t sell out on day 1 like most 40K boxes, that’s an indicator of GW’s ongoing *success*, not failure). 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asbestress Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 4 minutes ago, michu said: Honestly, maybe this kit is an upgrade sculpt-wise but it's a complete downgrade hobby-wise. I don't know if you mean it's a downgrade as conversion material or paint wise, but I stand by the fact that more complicated sculpts make painting to an ok standard easier. If a sculpt is simpler (i.e.: Space Marines) even if you make just a few mistakes those are incredibly visible, while if you have some paint overspill on a Clan Rat or CoS Steelhelm it's pretty difficult to notice. And if new sculpts mean that we move away from the old "squatting while holding weapon at the side to fit next to other minis on square bases" pose, I'm all in. 13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boingrot Bouncer Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 To be honest i have been wanting to start a Skaven army for years, but have not started it since the sculpts are old and often very ugly. So for me this box is perfect to share with a friend, and I have no doubt I am not alone wanting to start a Skaven army. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michu Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 1 minute ago, Asbestress said: I don't know if you mean it's a downgrade as conversion material or paint wise, but I stand by the fact that more complicated sculpts make painting to an ok standard easier. If a sculpt is simpler (i.e.: Space Marines) even if you make just a few mistakes those are incredibly visible, while if you have some paint overspill on a Clan Rat or CoS Steelhelm it's pretty difficult to notice. And if new sculpts mean that we move away from the old "squatting while holding weapon at the side to fit next to other minis on square bases" pose, I'm all in. That is completely untrue. My Black Orcs are more forgiving than my new Vampire Lord. Source: painted both and every mistake on the Lord was super visible. No issue with Black Orcs because simpler sculpts don't need so many colours and mistakes are easier to correct. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonhel Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 15 minutes ago, Ejecutor said: If that's adding nothing... then I don't know why GW is producing new minis. The new Skaven Clanrats are amazing and when you are painting them side by side the difference will be very noticeable. But on the battlefield they probably mix great and from that point of view there is zero reason to shelf your clanrats that you already painted as those clanrats still looking great. The problematic sculpts were never the Clanrats. Same for the liberators. The new ones are better, but if you already have the old ones painted to a standard you are happy with..Why paint them again? As with Clanrats there is way more exciting stuff to paint than the most basic troops. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michu Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 I would really strongly question the claim that new Liberators are better. But I have that opinion about Thunderstrike in general. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ejecutor Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 31 minutes ago, Tonhel said: The new Skaven Clanrats are amazing and when you are painting them side by side the difference will be very noticeable. But on the battlefield they probably mix great and from that point of view there is zero reason to shelf your clanrats that you already painted as those clanrats still looking great. The problematic sculpts were never the Clanrats. Same for the liberators. The new ones are better, but if you already have the old ones painted to a standard you are happy with..Why paint them again? As with Clanrats there is way more exciting stuff to paint than the most basic troops. Well, I guess not all the hobbyists want the same, but if there's a newer version of a mini I already have, and it is inside a super discounted box I don't doubt. I will buy it without seeing it. On the topic of not distinguishing the new sculpts in the middle of a game, then why would someone care about not having all the minis with the same pose, or even sculpting something to make them special? In the end... they all look the same during a game, so why should we even put care into painting them? I just find this argument too naive and just trying to validate a point. Some will care about painting those new clanrats at the same standard as others paint their heroes. And I am sure some players will notice it and put time to enjoy them. And as @Asbestress, I think those newer minis are easier to paint to a decent standard. 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtistDog Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 1 hour ago, Asbestress said: I don't know if you mean it's a downgrade as conversion material or paint wise, but I stand by the fact that more complicated sculpts make painting to an ok standard easier. If a sculpt is simpler (i.e.: Space Marines) even if you make just a few mistakes those are incredibly visible, while if you have some paint overspill on a Clan Rat or CoS Steelhelm it's pretty difficult to notice. And if new sculpts mean that we move away from the old "squatting while holding weapon at the side to fit next to other minis on square bases" pose, I'm all in. I was just talking about this with my local hobby group! For me at least, textured & finely sculpted models tend to speedpaint better than those with big, flat surfaces because you can throw washes at them without stressing about tidemarks too much. While too much detail can be overwhelming for new painters, GW walks that line pretty well with Thunderstrike SCE. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitGas Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 You wanna paint Skaven fast? Oil or enamel washes! yeah, you need a few new tools but you‘ll crank them out in minutes and it‘ll look better than any other fast method. The only annoying thing is that you need to varnish them after the wash… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bosskelot Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 5 hours ago, CommissarRotke said: Why is everyone suddenly saying Skaven are low popularity? They're like a landmark of Warhammer. Everyone went nuts when they came with Total Warhammer 2. as a Reptile Kid this definitely feels more like a snake. They're well loved and highly regarded but have never been all that popular in-game. They've always, across Fantasy and AOS, been a horde army that is difficult to paint. Everybody who is into Warhammer loves Skaven, even the solo-40k people, but those two factors make them a daunting prospect to actually collect. I'm someone who is an experienced hobbyist who is well-versed in "cheating" with paint schemes and even I'm looking at the new Skaventide models that are coming in the mail to me with trepidation. _____________________________________________ As for Skaventide's success I think it's very hard to judge it right now. At the end of the day how GW internally quantifies success is just almost impossible to tell and it's not like you can even glean that info from Investor Reports either because those are obtuse and wanting to minimise or not really call attention to any failures as much as possible. It is just a fact though that AOS has this consistent.... "issue", I guess with their Limited Special Edition stock never actually selling out whereas the 40k stuff is often disappearing anywhere from within 10 minutes to 24 hours later. You can argue that's good for the consumers who are into those AOS products, but as I've said like 10 times on this site within the past 2 years GW doesn't have unlimited production capacity so excessive production (with all its associated costs, not just financial but also energy and carbon footprint wise) that goes into products designed to sell-out that then don't sell out, during a time period where the company is undergoing a production-crunch and other ranges are struggling to stay in-stock, isn't actually a good thing for either the company or other consumers. These boxes are also not designed to be on sale long term, so if they don't sell out they'll all just have to be sent back to be destroyed which is an extra waste. And for what it's worth, anecdotally, this doesn't mean there is no enthusiasm locally for AOS. There's a few interested people looking to get into 4th, more than there were for 3rd which just seemed to kill the scene off for the most part. But on the flipside none of these people are buying Skaventide. I think my local sold even less of it than they did Dominion, and Dominion itself only shifted about 15 copies (125 for Indomitus and 80 for Leviathan for what it's worth). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hollow Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 The fact that so many (onliners) think that a product not instantly selling out is a sign of failure, shows how cooked some people's perception has become. Why would GW repeat the same launch schedule as Dominion if that had been a failure? 13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmorley21 Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 The ideas that a) Skaventide isn’t selling well and b) Tzeentch would sell better than Skaven as a starter faction are hilarious to me. 17 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon-knight77 Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 (edited) 14 hours ago, Snarff said: So, since the speculation/rumours say we're likely going into Talaxis with the next Warcry season, I think a Seraphon Temple Guard Warband/kit for AoS is exceptionally likely. We had the Saurus looking Rumour Engine, another Seraphon Warband is extremely likely in a Seraphon-focused season, Temple Guard would logically guard a crashed Temple-Ship and Temple Guard are an outdated kit ready to be brought to modern standards. I can't wait to see how they are going to look, hopefully more magitech-armored and elite than normal Saurus. Other warbands would be a shot in the dark. Idoneth, Kharadron, Skaven, Slaanesh, Gloomspite, Ironjawz (and SoB) are still missing dedicated warbands. Of these, I think Skaven is likely to get a Warband assaulting/looting Talaxis. Maybe new Gutter Runners? The others I cant see a clear link in terms of lore, but I am expecting at least Slaanesh of these to get a warband soon. Other potential warbands (based on rumour engines or wild speculation) would be SBGL Grave Guard, a Grundstok Kharadron force, a Namarti IDK band, an Ironweld warband. A Chuardin warband would likely wait until after the 3rd edition starter sets. Skaven clan pestilence would be a good contender as can be the possible culprits to have brought the eye of chotec down to the Gnarlwood as for Cities i do think we see a warband of explorers/conquistadors to have the closing story of Ven Talax since they constantly mention his disappearance and not "death" 12 hours ago, HorticulusTGA said: So happy for you ! BTW did we already discussed that lore PDF for the Hel Crown Camapgin ?! Available on WarCom --> AOS Downloads --> at the end of the page : https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/YqXCGbsNnT6QVq1f.pdf Finally got around for read the Assault on Hel's Claw so some interesting lore tidbit from it Unless it set before the ruin of it Emberguard is still being protected and we see bit of the Embergard incursions of the battle Hammer of sigmar & Hallowed Knights are the biggest forces keeping the vermindoom from breaching the Adamantine chain in the south. However it is the Sons of Mallus & Astral Templar who are getting success from the Varaguard chamber assassinating & sabotaging skaven hierarchy and machinery Har Huron is sending bunch of Daughter of Khaine to battling Clan Pestilence in the seas to the north while Fyreslayer are mobilizing on mass to reclaim various magmaholds in the chain to act a wall against them. Kharadon also come in a lend a hand since this vermindoom is bad for business Side note dwarfs still call skaven "Thaggoraki" Grunnar Brand is assembling a horde of darkoath against the skaven after the events of DB6 Apparently the Ruination chamber is a conspiracy/rumor among the other chamber as unless indoctrinated one can't even know the location of the Bleak Citadel. Each Legion has their own Citadel hidden somewhere in the realm The Skaven great bell shown on the map well it call Warpshatter Bells superior screaming bells crafted by master clan which upon ringing causes panic, earthquakes and insanity toward victim but to Skaven beserker rage. Problem it burn out too quickly so it requires high maintenance of sacrifice The Gnaw is described to be a massive polluted irritated wasteland of just ash and warpfire. burned Human, skaven & Dwarf skeletons are half burry, towns bombed out, cogforts scavenge of it guns & simply breathing causes poison and eyes bleeding. (basically a Soulborn swamp) The Battle of Hel's Claw shown in the map is the Knight Questor of the box getting the lord vigilant and his ruination chamber to go out a destroy one of these Warpshatter bells and suicide mission succeeds Morrda is very heavily involved in the Ruination chamber from power fueling the weapons like the fire & axes to him picking and heralding the stormcast into the chamber through his Grim-rooks What happens to the stormcast post Lord Terminos execution is unknown to all but Sigmar. Theory being Morrda shepherd them to peaceful oblivion, reincarnation into a Azyrite beast or Soul are dissolved back into sigmar power Lord Veritant was slowly replaced by the Order of Azyr as the realm's Witch hunters resulted in them being part of the ruination chamber as a corruption security check on those in the citadel. Some will blind themselves to better do their job and can sentence anyone with darkness within to be executed by Lord Terminos (but is super rare) A weird contradiction in that Reclusians are so far reforged that even the chaos gods can't find a way to corrupt them. Their describe to be a fleshy necron tanking hits and dealing it back Most of Skaven stuff is not new or noteworthy by should mention despite not getting much all the clans this wave are represented and talk about in lore from the Eshin spy/assassin helping out every skaven page to Clan Pestilence mention above Gnaw-beast are half horse, rat & hound all grafted together and curse with the Black hunger ever eternally starving Edited July 9 by Dragon-knight77 10 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
01rtb01 Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 8 hours ago, Boingrot Bouncer said: To be honest i have been wanting to start a Skaven army for years, but have not started it since the sculpts are old and often very ugly. So for me this box is perfect to share with a friend, and I have no doubt I am not alone wanting to start a Skaven army. I'm right with you here. My old world army was sold long ago. Time to start again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonhel Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 9 hours ago, Ejecutor said: Well, I guess not all the hobbyists want the same, but if there's a newer version of a mini I already have, and it is inside a super discounted box I don't doubt. I will buy it without seeing it. On the topic of not distinguishing the new sculpts in the middle of a game, then why would someone care about not having all the minis with the same pose, or even sculpting something to make them special? In the end... they all look the same during a game, so why should we even put care into painting them? I just find this argument too naive and just trying to validate a point. Some will care about painting those new clanrats at the same standard as others paint their heroes. And I am sure some players will notice it and put time to enjoy them. And as @Asbestress, I think those newer minis are easier to paint to a decent standard. I really dislike clones and how my mini's look on the battlefield are very important for me. I am a very slow painter and I try to paint my basic troops to the same level as my heroes. So I try to achieve the same level for every mini I paint. Combined with being easily distracted, it's no easy task to have a painted army on the battlefield😉. The new Skaven range is amazing, but the old clanrats weren't bad at all. Same as imo the old stormvermin. So when I have managed to paint (which I didn't) the old IoB skaven, I wouldn't replace them with the new Skaven. Because the improvements are only visible at painting distance. This is not me advocating for clone mini's at all. It's one my hobby goals to never have the same mini (clone) twice in my army. It's one of the reasons I never had reinforced Warcry StD units in my army as this would resulted in having some clones. I would 100% bought new plague monks as the old sculpts are ugly and the old clanrats/stormvermin aren't (imo) 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyrus Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 7 hours ago, dmorley21 said: The ideas that a) Skaventide isn’t selling well and b) Tzeentch would sell better than Skaven as a starter faction are hilarious to me. The discussion was a bit deeper than that : 1) High price tag compare to previous launch sets 2) Really no brand new miniatures/factions as previous launch set ( mainly refresh of old models) 3) Stormcast sacrosant /paladins/judicators squat just before the launch of 4th edition set 4) Skaven low popularity/appeal/support in AoS ( so far) The facts : 1) Skaventide didn’t sold out so far 2) Skaventide have been printed in roughly 2/3 of copies of Dominion ( web store exclusive coins Dominion = 32.000 Skaventide = 23.000 Leviathan 50.000) 3) In most country on day one of preorder the queue was over after just half an hour. My fear is this box really underrepresents AoS popularity. 3rd edition was great with incredible releases. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Taylor Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 11 hours ago, cyrus said: I mean they really add nothing , same for new liberators +++ Mod Hat On +++ Just to nudge you about your comment about the new Skaven and Stormcast. When criticising things, try and be constructive. You could have said, "I'm not a fan of the new sculpts" or "In my opinion, they could have pushed the updates more and made the models X (where X is more dynamic/grimdark/etc)". You've been a member of this forum long enough to know what we encourage, so please remember that. 7 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandlemad Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 53 minutes ago, cyrus said: 4) Skaven low popularity/appeal/support in AoS ( so far) I think this is the bit that’s really assuming facts not in evidence (with the exception of support) and, I think from a lot of the discussion, commenters assuming their own preferences must be reflected in the wider buyer base for the box. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Arthur Hotep Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 7 minutes ago, sandlemad said: I think this is the bit that’s really assuming facts not in evidence (with the exception of support) and, I think from a lot of the discussion, commenters assuming their own preferences must be reflected in the wider buyer base for the box. Being a legacy WHFB faction, the popularity of Skaven has been hard to gauge over the last few years. Since Skaven was among the armies with the oldest models around, I think many established players were hesitant to start the factions, since their future was so uncertain. People love them from Vermintide and Total War. They were pretty broken for a while in 2nd ed, but then got reined in and you saw them less that edition. Their 3rd ed book was fairly bad at the start, then got really good for tournament play after they got new battle tactics and the rules for Screaming Bells were changed. I think their underworlds warbands were generally well received. A factor that should not be underestimated is the ability to just walk into a store and buy up to date miniatures without having to jump through hoops. People more familiar with the GW ecosystem know that this is not the best way to get cheap miniatures and might think "Why would I ever do that when I can get the same or similar models half-price off of ebay?", but that's not how the average person (or even average AoS player) operates. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AquaRegis Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 Another note on Skaventides popularity. AOS will always live in the shadow of 40k (and to a lesser degree WHFB), so comparing skaventide sales to leviathan sales wise is a bit silly. Leviathan was the flagship reveal at Warhammer Fest, 40k dominates WH+, has loads of games and is now getting a TV show on Amazon Prime. AOS has a few shows, one RTS which was alright but flopped hard and a Roleplaying game that I've never heard of anyone play. AOS has grown a lot in popularity as the lore and models have improved from the mess that was the 2015 launch, but 40k still dominates. Skaventide hasn't even released yet so ultimately the whole discussion is bunk and we don't have the sales figures for Leviathan or Skaventide. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragest Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 The bigger problem with the box is all that spearhead's stuff forced into. Is impossible to pick more than one without one (or two) safe buyers of the books and the scenery and the price is inflated because of those books and scenery. Apart from that, the sce part is boring as hell, almost the same-libs with almost the same paladins with almost the sane prosecutors with almost the same arcanum. The price of those parts is tanking hard in second market. Skaven is really fine btw, is having pretty success in my country, with way more demand than offers. Could be better with some vermins instead of a double of clanrats just for the big number, but fine. The problem with all those hobbyist that want to start skaven and give them a try in the real mode of Sigmar is that you should get the scenery and endless, wich are expensive and almost impossible 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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