Xil Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 I play DoK and really don't want Malerion to be stand-alone. Mentioned it several times DoK could use a wider range. It could be done like the different builds within LRL or BigWaagh. And it would ease starting the army if you already own DoK as you could get unit by unit to add and change your collection. Also the internal rivalry won't harm the book. We have that already with Morathi and the opposition of Morathi (now lead by Krethusa) 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Klatz Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 9 minutes ago, Ejecutor said: While it would be an awesome model indeed, I think the gods models time has passed. Wha? We just got Kragnos,(technically Kroak who’s as god-like as possible) while Malerion the shadow god & Tyrion the blind sun-god are certainly in the future. AoS is the last setting where you should think somecrazy over-the-top thing won’t happen.(especially for a big centerpiece)😂 42 minutes ago, cyrus said: I think there was an “ hint like “ by Whitefang on @Baron Klatzpost regarding “ weird beastie destruction “ faction . We have currently 24 factions and we know chorfs are coming in 4th edition: I think 25 is near the limit for an healthy support. I’m hoping hard it was a hint like and not just cause he liked the idea.(remember guys, sometimes even Whitefang uses reactions just for fun 😄) And I agree at 25 being a good maximum factions number but I kinda hope for 26 9 Order 7 Chaos 5 Death 5 Destruction seems the best spread so every alliance feels fleshed out. Very interested to see what comes of it all. Will Orruks split for the 5? Stay together to make room for BoD? Split AND get BoD by Kragnos pushing new beasts into Kruleboyz’ faction?? Looking forward to see what happens whatever the tumultuous Realms bring shrieking from the aether. 🍻 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Someravella Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 (edited) I think that soups are mostly done because of two things: sharing faction mechanics and combine army concepts/aesthetics that are not enough to support a whole faction. Some of them are even combined with actual "political" subfactions within the same faction (e.g., Krethusa and Morathi), and I think it is not strange that some factions go this way. Maybe this happens to Gitmob and GSG or Malerion and DoK, the same way that KB were included to OW and Darkoath were included to S2D. That said, KB could go this way: one group following Gobsprakk and another following Kragnos and his race (because I think that there is too much connection KB-Kragnos and it cannot be broken easily)... ending up with "orruk warclans" as a combination of KB, IJ, and BoD (because, otherwise, IJ would be too few to be a faction on their own). However, I have some doubts... what would happen with Kragnos and him being able to be used across all the Destruction armies? Edited May 27 by Someravella Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novakai Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 10 minutes ago, Someravella said: I think that soups are mostly done because of two things: sharing faction mechanics and combine army concepts/aesthetics that are not enough to support a whole faction. Some of them are based as actual subfactions within the same faction (e.g., Krethusa and Morathi), and I think it is not strange that some factions go this way. Maybe this happens to Gitmob and GSG or Malerion and DoK, the same way that KB were included to OW and Darkoath were included to S2D. That said, KB could go this way: one group following Gobsprakk and another following Kragnos and his race (because I think that there is too much connection KB-Kragnos and it cannot be broken easily)... ending up with "orruk warclans" as a combination of KB, IJ, and BoD (because, otherwise, IJ would be too few to be a faction on their own). However, I have some doubts... what would happen with Kragnos and him being able to be used across all the Destruction armies? I mean it already a wild assumption that Kragnos BoD army would be part of Warclanz since there nothing that suggest they are Orruks (kind of goes against the name of the book) well also both Armies have more units then Fyreslayers and that a seperate army Kragnos would just keep functioning as Nagash and just have a profile in every Destruction Battletome regardless if he every get his own army. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nezzhil Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 13 hours ago, Grunbag said: I know , joking. But I’m still 100% convinced we will get split. We will see once they show it . If you keep them under orruk warclan it means they will have some rules to play them together , and if you add rules for play them together you will have again same difficulties to balance them separately. Repeating one hundred of times that together is harder to balance them is false. Ironjawz problem is the Violent Fury, was the problem since their first book and it is not related to Big Waaagh. Kruleboyz problem is their bad design Battle Traits, it is not related to Big Waaagh. Claiming for balance when Orruk were going down during all the edition and none of the two standalone factions were affected by any nerf related to Big Waaagh is simply a lie. You can argue that you don't like Big Waaagh, but stop claiming using false arguments. You prefer that they remove a faction that for some people is their main faction, it is okay, but at least stop using that kind of arguments without any basis because for people that like Big Waaagh is like an insult to their intelligence. 1 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Someravella Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 (edited) 19 minutes ago, novakai said: I mean it already a wild assumption that Kragnos BoD army would be part of Warclanz since there nothing that suggest they are Orruks (kind of goes against the name of the book) well also both Armies have more units then Fyreslayers and that a seperate army Kragnos would just keep functioning as Nagash and just have a profile in every Destruction Battletome regardless if he every get his own army. Yep, I know BoD will not be orruks, but they could be in their army as troggoths/grots/hobgrots are. Edited May 27 by Someravella Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novakai Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 1 minute ago, Nezzhil said: Repeating one hundred of times that together is harder to balance them is false. Ironjawz problem is the Violent Fury, was the problem since their first book and it is not related to Big Waaagh. Kruleboyz problem is their bad design Battle Traits, it is not related to Big Waaagh. Claiming for balance when Orruk were going down during all the edition and none of the two standalone factions were affected by any nerf related to Big Waaagh is simply a lie. You can argue that you don't like Big Waaagh, but stop claiming using false arguments. You prefer that they remove a faction that for some people is their main faction, it is okay, but at least stop using that kind of arguments without any basis because for people that like Big Waaagh is like an insult to their intelligence. I think it was pretty obvious the designers had problem trying to make the battletome work and side step or made baffling decision at every turn for all three armies and BW. Seem like they were to concern about balancing so much that it hurt the book either way. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novakai Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 1 minute ago, Someravella said: Yep, I known BoD will not be orruks, but they could be in their army as troggoths/grots/hobgrots are. One is assuming they are the BoC replacement in AoS and not another random auxiliary force for an existent army (especially since Kragnos is a God character) but that just me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nezzhil Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 (edited) 4 minutes ago, novakai said: I think it was pretty obvious the designers had problem trying to make the battletome work and side step or made baffling decision at every turn for all three armies and BW. Seem like they were to concern about balancing so much that it hurt the book either way. It is an starting book. It is always the same, Necrons had that problem on 40k, NH too... SCE had the same problem if dragons doens't exists. Orruk Warclans second edition worked fine with Bonesplitterz, but the problem was the same, the Violent Fury is too much. You still looking a faction when Violent Fury is the real problem of Ironjawz. Edited May 27 by Nezzhil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitGas Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 1 hour ago, Xil said: I play DoK and really don't want Malerion to be stand-alone. Mentioned it several times DoK could use a wider range. It could be done like the different builds within LRL or BigWaagh. And it would ease starting the army if you already own DoK as you could get unit by unit to add and change your collection. Also the internal rivalry won't harm the book. We have that already with Morathi and the opposition of Morathi (now lead by Krethusa) Yeah, unless GW wants an almost female-only (well, Doomfire warlocks or what they‘re called) force for AoS, it would make sense for Malekith to be added to them. IMO all factions that started life as the evolution of a single kit/theme like them, IJ and Fyreslayers, benefit from adding more stuff. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novakai Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Nezzhil said: It is an starting book. It is always the same, Necrons had that problem on 40k, NH too... SCE had the same problem if dragons doens't exists. Orruk Warclans second edition worked fine with Bonesplitterz, but the problem was the same, the Violent Fury is too much. You still looking a faction when Violent Fury is the real problem of Ironjawz. Well no Ironjawz need violent Fury to be strong because they are a pure melee army and it the only card they have to cover there lack of flexibility and versatility. But then it becomes hard to juggle that kind of a necessary ability when it can be use elsewhere. they also seem to purposely lower the content and ability of each Warclanz because they just lack space and balancing to make each of them good on their own right and still fear the mixes Edited May 27 by novakai 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Klatz Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 32 minutes ago, Someravella said: However, I have some doubts... what would happen with Kragnos and him being able to be used across all the Destruction armies? Apparently the devs said Nagash is gonna get Warscrolls for each Death faction with that faction’s keyword switched in as their manifestation of him. So I’d imagine the same for Kragnos even in your KB + BoD scenario that he just gets summoned to each Destruction faction and focuses on them as they see him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xil Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 Just now, Baron Klatz said: Apparently the devs said Nagash is gonna get Warscrolls for each Death faction with that faction’s keyword switched in as their manifestation of him. So I’d imagine the same for Kragnos even in your KB + BoD scenario that he just gets summoned to each Destruction faction and focuses on them as they see him. But Kragnos isn't a manifestation as the likes of Nagash? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Klatz Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 1 minute ago, Xil said: But Kragnos isn't a manifestation as the likes of Nagash? He’s more physical but still a full deity that’s connecting the various forces of Destruction to his body like at first it was just noted Kruleboyz drumbeats synced up with his heartbeats and now even Ironjawz Warchanter club out beats to his heart & hoof beats that start to shake the ground. So just a bit of calling to him from his totems would be enough to pull that connection and have him appear from a fissure or something. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novakai Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Xil said: But Kragnos isn't a manifestation as the likes of Nagash? I mean it doesn’t matter because Kragnos’s warscroll is in every destruction battletome like Nagash in 3.0 he already functions like Nagash Edited May 27 by novakai Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nezzhil Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 1 minute ago, novakai said: Well no Ironjawz need violent Fury to be strong because they are a pure melee army and it the only card they have to cover there lack of flexibility and versatility. But then it becomes hard to juggle that kind of a necessary ability when it can be use elsewhere. but they also seem to purposely lower the content and ability of each Warclanz because they just lack space and balancing to make each of them good on their own right. But Violent Fury is the real problem of the actual design. You can remove it and then making Warchanters more interesting that are not only +1 damage buff for free. I just remember that Pig Ironjawz have been a better list during more time during the edition than Big Waaagh. Ironjawz started to when down when tacticts become more difficult and less related to kill and Big Waaagh only shines during a few months because they make the Tactic mistake. The third point is related to being a starting book, second edition didn't remove any rules or abilities from previous books. Again, arguing about Big Waaagh as a problem it is false, it is not related when you check that previous book didnt' have any of that problems and it was not a top book either or the best faction. Ironjawz problem is their Battle Traits and abilities, they are bad by design since first edition, and the same for Kruleboyz, Big Waaagh was only a bit good this edition because during a few months they could achieve tactics easly but, as a player, you didn't care about internal balance or doing any combo that breaks the book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuriel Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 What does BoD stand for? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ejecutor Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 56 minutes ago, Baron Klatz said: Wha? We just got Kragnos,(technically Kroak who’s as god-like as possible) while Malerion the shadow god & Tyrion the blind sun-god are certainly in the future. AoS is the last setting where you should think somecrazy over-the-top thing won’t happen.(especially for a big centerpiece)😂 I’m hoping hard it was a hint like and not just cause he liked the idea.(remember guys, sometimes even Whitefang uses reactions just for fun 😄) And I agree at 25 being a good maximum factions number but I kinda hope for 26 9 Order 7 Chaos 5 Death 5 Destruction seems the best spread so every alliance feels fleshed out. Very interested to see what comes of it all. Will Orruks split for the 5? Stay together to make room for BoD? Split AND get BoD by Kragnos pushing new beasts into Kruleboyz’ faction?? Looking forward to see what happens whatever the tumultuous Realms bring shrieking from the aether. 🍻 True. I totally forgot about Kragwho. I was referring to big centrepieces. I imagine Tyrion and Malerion would be a Lumineth size mini with something next to them to make it expensive, but yeah. Totally forgot about current big godies. Even with that. I don't see a Grimnir mini. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novakai Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 1 minute ago, Nezzhil said: But Violent Fury is the real problem of the actual design. You can remove it and then making Warchanters more interesting that are not only +1 damage buff for free. I just remember that Pig Ironjawz have been a better list during more time during the edition than Big Waaagh. Ironjawz started to when down when tacticts become more difficult and less related to kill and Big Waaagh only shines during a few months because they make the Tactic mistake. The third point is related to being a starting book, second edition didn't remove any rules or abilities from previous books. Again, arguing about Big Waaagh as a problem it is false, it is not related when you check that previous book didnt' have any of that problems and it was not a top book either or the best faction. Ironjawz problem is their Battle Traits and abilities, they are bad by design since first edition, and the same for Kruleboyz, Big Waaagh was only a bit good this edition because during a few months they could achieve tactics easly but, as a player, you didn't care about internal balance or doing any combo that breaks the book. I mean you seem more combative and edge about the subject i it maybe not a big WAAGH problem but a problem that combining three armies in one was not a good idea in the short or long term and the design team has struggle with this and other time they mixed armies together. and if Bonesplitterz had been squated in 2nd edition there would have not been a Orruk warclan book either way. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Someravella Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 4 minutes ago, Nuriel said: What does BoD stand for? Beasts of Destruction. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nezzhil Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 3 minutes ago, novakai said: I mean you seem more combative and edge about the subject i it maybe not a big WAAGH problem but a problem that combining three armies in one was not a good idea in the short or long term and the design team has struggle with this and other time they mixed armies together. and if Bonesplitterz had been squated in 2nd edition there would have not been a Orruk warclan book either way. Okay, you can start splitting all the daemon-mortals armies, start splitting seraphon in two, start splliting all the big armies in multiple smaller ones. That's the way no? If the problem is big armies that combine troops, we have a lot of problems to fix too. I don't care about the past, Big Waaagh is one of my main armies during 5 years, that it is most of half life of this game. Big Waagh is alive almost the same time as BoC as a proper faction. It is not a short experiment of this edition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ejecutor Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 1 hour ago, Someravella said: However, I have some doubts... what would happen with Kragnos and him being able to be used across all the Destruction armies? They will leave time enough for those making the initial Kragnos purchase to feel they had plenty of time to use it and then it would be BoD exclusive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flippy Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 25 minutes ago, novakai said: Well no Ironjawz need violent Fury to be strong because they are a pure melee army and it the only card they have to cover there lack of flexibility and versatility. All Brutes (on foot and pigs) should naturally be Damage 2, Megaboss (on foot and with mount) Damage 3 and the problem is fixed. The Warchanter can than grant different (less critical) boons. It would also make the units easier to price accordingly. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Klatz Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 8 minutes ago, Ejecutor said: Totally forgot about current big godies. Even with that. I don't see a Grimnir mini. I’ll agree there, mainly because trying to put him & Vulcatrix back together is the driving narrative of the Fyreslayers that makes them so interesting what lengths they’ll go to for their gods resurrection. At best I could see a fiery avatar variation that’s like lava taking their forms since their mental forms are still active even with out the bodies and make a diminished manifestation. Would be especially awesome if it’s the duardin-droth centaur hybrid the Lofnir Lodge believe will happen since their ur-gold bits got meshed together. That’d make a fun model that behave more like Grimnir(melee) or Vulcatrix(magically) depending on something like damage brackets making it go primal. Maybe even two minis with the droth half on top for Vulcatrix taking over like in their hallway statues. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ejecutor Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 (edited) Btw, looks like 115 € will be the new price for Warcry boxes (they share price with Kill Team): Edited May 27 by Ejecutor 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.