Ejecutor Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 18 minutes ago, Flippy said: All Brutes (on foot and pigs) should naturally be Damage 2, Megaboss (on foot and with mount) Damage 3 and the problem is fixed. The Warchanter can than grant different (less critical) boons. It would also make the units easier to price accordingly. AoS 4 is a game changer, so probably all of them will change and all this drama about Warclans will disappear. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingBrodd Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novakai Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 39 minutes ago, Nezzhil said: Okay, you can start splitting all the daemon-mortals armies, start splitting seraphon in two, start splliting all the big armies in multiple smaller ones. That's the way no? If the problem is big armies that combine troops, we have a lot of problems to fix too. I don't care about the past, Big Waaagh is one of my main armies during 5 years, that it is most of half life of this game. Big Waagh is alive almost the same time as BoC as a proper faction. It is not a short experiment of this edition. I mean none of those situation you listed are similar to now the current state of Kruleboyz and Ironjawz. Where it felt the Kruleboyz should have probably been its own army and not be shoehorned in to Warclanz to begin with. I think it almost a straw man argument here you making 4 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nezzhil Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 13 minutes ago, novakai said: I mean none of those situation you listed are similar to now the current state of Kruleboyz and Ironjawz. Where it felt the Kruleboyz should have probably been its own army and not be shoehorned in to Warclanz to begin with. I think it almost a straw man argument here you making Why not? I can argue the same with Gloomspite second edition book, and I remember a lot of people claming for splitting the book when others like me were saying that the problem was not "the soup", that the real problem was the bingo-keywords that made impossible to build any kind of list. Meanwhile the "split-people" only said that having Spiderfang, Troggoth, Squigs and Grots were unbalanced by itself. Oh, but third edition doesn't have that problem. And right now only the small percentage that are spider-lovers claim for a proper book, and again, because they are weak by design, not by the book. A good internal balance is related to have good rules and removing toxic design decisions like keyword-bingo, MWs everywhere or +1 damage for free. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverstu Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 58 minutes ago, Ejecutor said: Btw, looks like 115 € will be the new price for Warcry boxes (they share price with Kill Team): Is that price rise? Thinking about the price in uk pounds. Warcry might not be the same price as the Killteam set has basically 3 infantry kits in it with the addition of the brood coven models as well as the brood brothers.. Just hoping I can manage to snag one of these. Back on the AoS discussion - the map showing the extent of the Gnaw seems to have it running up against a few Fyreslayer holds, I wonder if they might get more this edition? Wasn't too keen on them until the new Warcry set came out, be interested in what else could come for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nezzhil Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 Local providers just start asking stores how many boxes they want. Maybe @Elarin source was wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ejecutor Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 2 minutes ago, silverstu said: Is that price rise? Thinking about the price in uk pounds. Warcry might not be the same price as the Killteam set has basically 3 infantry kits in it with the addition of the brood coven models as well as the brood brothers.. Just hoping I can manage to snag one of these. Back on the AoS discussion - the map showing the extent of the Gnaw seems to have it running up against a few Fyreslayer holds, I wonder if they might get more this edition? Wasn't too keen on them until the new Warcry set came out, be interested in what else could come for them. Yeah. 5 €. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ejecutor Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 1 minute ago, Nezzhil said: Local providers just start asking stores how many boxes they want. Maybe @Elarin source was wrong. Yeah. My store asked me last week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novakai Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 21 minutes ago, Nezzhil said: Why not? I can argue the same with Gloomspite second edition book, and I remember a lot of people claming for splitting the book when others like me were saying that the problem was not "the soup", that the real problem was the bingo-keywords that made impossible to build any kind of list. Meanwhile the "split-people" only said that having Spiderfang, Troggoth, Squigs and Grots were unbalanced by itself. Oh, but third edition doesn't have that problem. And right now only the small percentage that are spider-lovers claim for a proper book, and again, because they are weak by design, not by the book. A good internal balance is related to have good rules and removing toxic design decisions like keyword-bingo, MWs everywhere or +1 damage for free. Well we not really arguing about other army in this conversation because only Warclanz is in a position of (possibly) being split currently and it largely because of the big distinction and divide between each warclans and how they always been design to be their own army and not a mixed force with strong subset identity like GSG. loosing Bonesplitterz, having issues with Spearhead, counting 24 armies out of the current 23, not once promoting any form of mixing or using BW is all fueling the possibility of a split now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beliman Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 (edited) 7 hours ago, Xil said: DoK could use a wider range. It could be done like the different builds within LRL or BigWaagh. Imho, battletomes shoudn't be armies, they should be civilizations. If two armies doesn't have the same religion, traditions, art & culture, social classes,technology, etc... (no need to share all of them), then, I don't know why they must be mixed in one book with just 4 pages that let them play together. Edited May 27 by Beliman 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nezzhil Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 6 minutes ago, novakai said: Well we not really arguing about other army in this conversation because only Warclanz is in a position of (possibly) being split currently and it largely because of the big distinction and divide between each warclans and how they always been design to be their own army and not a mixed force with strong subset identity like GSG. loosing Bonesplitterz, having issues with Spearhead, counting 24 armies out of the current 23, not once promoting any form of mixing or using BW is all fueling the possibility of a split now. That's not true. Path of Glory rules are related to make a Big Waaagh, adding troops of other clans during the campaign. All the narrative was based on unify the clans. There is not any issue with Spearhead, it is the Orruk Warclans Spearhead and we know the 25 Spearheads. Loosing Bonesplitterz only do that we are again in the Gork-Mork armies like second edition book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nezzhil Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 3 minutes ago, Beliman said: Imho, battletomes shoudn't be armies, they should be civilizations. If two armies doesn't have the same religion, traditions, art & culture, social classes,technology, etc... (no need to have all of them), then, I don't know why they must be mixed in one book with just because they have 4 pages that let them play together. They are mixing "small" Codexes with bigger ones to provide space for new factions. 40k have the Custodes, Aeldari and, if the rumour is true, the new Imperial force as mixed Codexes. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crypt Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 From all the conversation about factions and their book, i have been thinking why would it matter if more than one faction shares a single book gw doesnt need to soup them. But then again...im of the opinion of just putting in all the grand alliance book together ( per grand alluance,maybe split order into 2 books) in one book so that no one has to wait 2 or 3 years to get new rules. But then again id rather just have free online digital rules all released at the same time 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragest Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 1 hour ago, Beliman said: Imho, battletomes shoudn't be armies, they should be civilizations. If two armies doesn't have the same religion, traditions, art & culture, social classes,technology, etc... (no need to have all of them), then, I don't know why they must be mixed in one book with just because they have 4 pages that let them play together. The faction books are more related to logistics than the proper game. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xil Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 56 minutes ago, Beliman said: Imho, battletomes shoudn't be armies, they should be civilizations. If two armies doesn't have the same religion, traditions, art & culture, social classes,technology, etc... (no need to have all of them), then, I don't know why they must be mixed in one book with just because they have 4 pages that let them play together. I fail to understand if this is an argument for or against joining them in one book. Even as "civilization books", DoK and 'Umbraneth' share more traits than not. They live in the same realm with the same hardships and advantages, both their cultures evolved from Dark Kin Elves; both like to mislead and plot. They only differ in 1 and half a point: 1. Their leaders are different persons. One being Morathi and the other Malerion 0.5. Religion: Malerion elves won't follow the Scáthborns fanatical faith in Morathi. BUT so does a big portion of the DoK, which now are lead by Krethusa. Krethusa follows the Crone Godess, which as an old god, should also be a god of the Malerion elves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snarff Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 (edited) 1 hour ago, silverstu said: Is that price rise? Thinking about the price in uk pounds. Warcry might not be the same price as the Killteam set has basically 3 infantry kits in it with the addition of the brood coven models as well as the brood brothers.. Just hoping I can manage to snag one of these. Back on the AoS discussion - the map showing the extent of the Gnaw seems to have it running up against a few Fyreslayer holds, I wonder if they might get more this edition? Wasn't too keen on them until the new Warcry set came out, be interested in what else could come for them. Not just a few FS holds, some of the most important FS holds (Vostarg). The Runefather of the Vostarg, Bael-Grimnir, is currently status unknown after his fight in one of the Dawnbringers short stories where he lost his arms and legs. He also has a daughter who is set to take over the lodge, and Soulbound has more lore about matriarchal lodges. Plus the Flameseekers have finally introduced the first female Duardin models in AoS. So there's a good chance developments will happen there. Vulkyn Flameseekers have brought in an entirely new FS resource, the Vulkazharr, the sacred flames of Vulcatrix. Lofnir are trying to recover this and use it to increase their Magmadroths power (which further links Grimnir and Vulcatrix). These flames are rumoured to have also bonded with the celestial bodies (Seraphon Spawn of Chotec), the Ogor god of fire (Firebellies), forges of Hashut and more. This sets up further Chuardin/FS rivalry too, and Chuardin have been leaked to be coming this edition. Then there are the Avatar of Grimnir issues. Gotrek has the master rune, is communicating with Grimnir, but it's mostly inactive. This gives the opportunity for FS to get the avatar of Grimnir back, or for Gotrek to play a bigger role in the FS lore. Gotrek is off doing some other stuff as of Blightslayer though, I hope we get the next Gotrek novel soon so we see where that goes. There is lore about an incarnate or something else popping up under FS volcanoes as well, but with incarnates being in limbo I'm unsure of anything happening there. The Duardin Unification luckily seems to have stopped at 'encouraging KO and FS to work together more'. Grombrindal is only getting legends rules, only some FS lodges want to work together with Grungi (one out of altruism, others out of convenience in helping ressurect Grimnir), and most KO Skyports don't really care about Grungi. With Grombrindal not being an official model, there's no reason for the factions to be forced together. Grungi confirmed that Grimnir is awake but not quite ready to awaken yet in the Grombrindal novel (iirc). From a model perspective, there seems to be a refined FS Aesthetic. The Auric Flamekeeper, Grimhold Exile, Vulkyn Flameseekers and the new Runesmiter store anniversary model (Brakki) are all in this new aesthetic (which still fits really well with the older models). All these things together lead me to believe that a FS expansion wave is not just likely, but imminent. They're overdue for new releases, and are in the perfect spot (both in the great parch and further in lore) to combat both Skaven and Chuardin. EDIT: That was longer than expected, but TL;DR: A FS wave seems likely. Which form it will take depends on which lore threads they want to pick up, but Duardin Soup seems highly unlikely. Edited May 27 by Snarff 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beliman Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 (edited) 1 hour ago, Nezzhil said: They are mixing "small" Codexes with bigger ones to provide space for new factions. 40k have the Custodes, Aeldari and, if the rumour is true, the new Imperial force as mixed Codexes. Yeah, it sucks for Aledary-Ynnari. Custodes and Imperail stuff are part of the same Institution and they are clearly from the same Civilization (Imperium of the Man). But 40k is a bit diferent from AoS, so we can't make a 1:1 comparison because thereare factions that are clearly part of a civilization (Tyranids and Genestealers) but they are split in 2 books. 10 minutes ago, Xil said: They only differ in 1 and half a point: 1. Their leaders are different persons. One being Morathi and the other Malerion 0.5. Religion: Malerion elves won't follow the Scáthborns fanatical faith in Morathi. BUT so does a big portion of the DoK, which now are lead by Krethusa. Krethusa follows the Crone Godess, which as an old god, should also be a god of the Malerion elves. I don't have enough knowledge to see how diferent Malerioneths are going to be from DoK. Time will tell. Edited May 27 by Beliman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragest Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 3 minutes ago, Xil said: Even as "civilization books", DoK and 'Umbraneth' share more traits than not. They live in the same realm with the same hardships and advantages, both their cultures evolved from Dark Kin Elves; both like to mislead and plot. Well, that applies to Slaanesh aswell The problem we have with Malerion and his kin (if they even exists or will come soon to the game) is that we don't know wnything about them. They can be draconics, they can be shadow "dameons", they can be pirates, hell, even phoenixes if they want to subvert expectations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nezzhil Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 2 minutes ago, Beliman said: Yeah, it sucks for Aledary-Ynnari. Custodes and Imperail stuff it's part of the same institution and they are clearly from the main Civilization (Imperium of the Man). But 40k is a bit diferent from AoS, so we can't make a 1:1 comparison because thereare factions that are clearly part of a civilization (Tyranids and Genestealers) but they are split in 2 books. It is all related to sales Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitGas Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 I think it would be a grave mistake to have more army books. I understand the reasoning for it and agree in some cases but I think that GW already has a ton of armies in AoS and the more distinct armies there are, the harder it is for GW to release something for each of them. Some forces are still quite small in regards to options/units, etc. We can talk about it when sales numbers equal 40k‘s and GW can allocate even more resources to AoS. If we compare the current situation with WHFB‘s, we are quite blessed already. Orks, Gobbos, Chaos, two dwarven factions, 3,5 Aelfs… 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ejecutor Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 Cities of Sigmaaaaar! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freemeta Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 F5 F5 F5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarrWolves Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 Isn't it in 1h? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draznak Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 If it's like Gloomspite and Nighthaunt, it'll be in 1 hour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragest Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 3 minutes ago, KarrWolves said: Isn't it in 1h? Yes it is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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