Rachmani Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 I think rend might actually be somewhat lower. At least what I‘ve seen so far let‘s me guess that more units have a rend of 1, but without ways to buff it and less high rend units (and from what I‘ve seen so far, less mortals) dmg might go down. That more stuff hits or wounds on 4+ now is a factor, too. Maybe they‘ve actually struck the right balance this time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyrus Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Luperci said: it's a real shame that they did actually get new sorcerer lord but it was locked behind wh+, I'm sure there are a bunch out there still but future s2d players might find difficulty getting it Even the Underworlds band 's one is not bad at all ! (Still available on webstore) Edited June 4 by cyrus 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucentia Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 I'm not hugely concerned about the amount of rend shown so far, seems like the general trend is elite units get a pip of rend, basic chumps get 0, and specialist weapons get extra against their preferred targets, seems reasonable to me. I am a little wary of throwing in -1 charge dice abilities though, that is a hugely impactful debuff that needs to be used pretty sparingly, I think, so hopefully they've done the maths on that sort of thing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScionOfOssia Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 7 minutes ago, Lucentia said: I'm not hugely concerned about the amount of rend shown so far, seems like the general trend is elite units get a pip of rend, basic chumps get 0, and specialist weapons get extra against their preferred targets, seems reasonable to me. I am a little wary of throwing in -1 charge dice abilities though, that is a hugely impactful debuff that needs to be used pretty sparingly, I think, so hopefully they've done the maths on that sort of thing It’s on a 3+ and only affects Monsters and Cavalry and they can only be affected by it once courtesy of the core rule mentioned in an earlier preview that states that no unit can be affected by the same ability twice. It seems limited enough for now and might be the unique thing for Allopexes anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beliman Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 (edited) 9 minutes ago, ScionOfOssia said: It’s on a 3+ and only affects Monsters and Cavalry and they can only be affected by it once courtesy of the core rule mentioned in an earlier preview that states that no unit can be affected by the same ability twice. It seems limited enough for now and might be the unique thing for Allopexes anyway. I think @Lucentiawas talking about general rules. Btw, KOs have the same ability as an artifact, and only once-per-game, but no roll needed. Edited June 4 by Beliman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScionOfOssia Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 2 minutes ago, Beliman said: I think @Lucentiawas talking in general. KOs have the same ability as an artifact, and only once-per-game, but no roll needed. Ah, fair. Yeah, it seems to be sparingly used and either a one-off or conditional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Arthur Hotep Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 I wonder what abilities Nurgle will get in 4th. Disgustingly Resilient should be moved to the warscroll. Summoning is gone. The Cycle of Corruption, I would guess, might also be out. That leaves only Disease Points and potentially some healing ability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucentia Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 Yes, I meant -1d6 charge dice being a concern if made too broadly available, charging on 1d6 is a 1/3 chance of failing even a 3" charge, in a lot of cases it might as well say 'the affected unit cannot charge this turn,' so it's something that warrants a light touch is all. I don't think it will break the game wholesale from what we've seen so far, who knows, there might be tonnes of +1 charge dice to counterbalance it, but it's something to keep an eye on, potentially. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neverchosen Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 8 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said: I wonder what abilities Nurgle will get in 4th. Disgustingly Resilient should be moved to the warscroll. Summoning is gone. The Cycle of Corruption, I would guess, might also be out. That leaves only Disease Points and potentially some healing ability. I can imagine the Cycle of corruption being reworked but sticking around. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcvs Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 (edited) 11 minutes ago, ScionOfOssia said: Ah, fair. Yeah, it seems to be sparingly used and either a one-off or conditional. If I remember correctly, Stormcast have it on a spell with CV 7. And I agree with @Lucentia -1 charge dice is concerning as a mechanic. Coupled with end of phase redeploy it basically means neutering a melee hammer unit. 22 minutes ago, ScionOfOssia said: It’s on a 3+ and only affects Monsters and Cavalry and they can only be affected by it once courtesy of the core rule mentioned in an earlier preview that states that no unit can be affected by the same ability twice. Not sure about the cannot be affected twice: the shark net/harpoon doesn't seem to be a CORE ability, nor a passive one, and the unit on the receiving end would not be the one using it. Edited June 4 by Marcvs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScionOfOssia Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 1 minute ago, Marcvs said: If I remember correctly, Stormcast have it on a spell with CV 7. And I agree with @Lucentia -1 charge dice is concerning as a mechanic. Coupled with end of phase redeploy it basically means neutering a melee hammer unit. Not sure about the cannot be affected twice: the shark net/harpoon doesn't seem to be a CORE ability, nor a passive one, and the unit on the receiving end would not be the one using it. It’s a passive ability of the Allopex’s shooting, so I think it would qualify as being a 1 time thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcvs Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 5 minutes ago, ScionOfOssia said: It’s a passive ability of the Allopex’s shooting, so I think it would qualify as being a 1 time thing. mmm no, I don't think I agree with this: passive abilities are clearly labeled as such (see Bloodthirsthy Predators in the same warscroll) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommissarRotke Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 19 hours ago, Nezzhil said: Lightning Gheist tackling another Stormcast??? where is this from? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScionOfOssia Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 9 minutes ago, Marcvs said: mmm no, I don't think I agree with this: passive abilities are clearly labeled as such (see Bloodthirsthy Predators in the same warscroll) Ah, then yeah. That’s substantially more threatening then. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon-knight77 Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 6 minutes ago, CommissarRotke said: Lightning Gheist tackling another Stormcast??? where is this from? Dawnbringer 6 in the epilouge where Ionus is carrying a broken Vandus to his tower 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ejecutor Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 8 minutes ago, Dragon-knight77 said: Dawnbringer 6 in the epilouge where Ionus is carrying a broken Vandus to his tower Interesting that it is Vandus. It is almost like we envisioned the Ruination Chamber. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitsumy Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 2 hours ago, Ragest said: I don’t see the benefits to dr or teleport bodies that move from 10-14” with fly that can run and charge. People call all types of teleport “mobility”, and that's true with 4” dwarves or 5” stormcast, but not with idoneth. You have a bunch of different abilities doing tons of stuff, but all of then with a 3+ roll. I prefer to see clear synergies than random effects in the warscrolls. If you want to go to the hit and run route, do a hit and run route. Retiring if you have killed something in combat, improved redeploys, out of phase movement shenanigans, -1 hit… But not just a “hey, play jumping all the time” yes totally agree. there is a reason because noone played soulscryer whole edittion( ability was totally useless for this army), now they deletted our CORE faction pasive of only shot clossest unit in enchange of the scryer useless ability... great. rituals got removed, and addes as ligther version on caster with 66%.... another huge hit since it should have 100% and tidecaster lost his spell, and it was the only okish spell we had. sea eidolon was amomg worst scrools whole edittion,now it lost his reroll casts for +1 ( waaaay worse), cant heal himself, keep doing half dmg than others masive mage monsters do, lost his mortal spell, lost his bravery aura. only won bad abilitys, overall a 4/10 scroll went down to 2/10 at best, great. ishlaen got worse for no reason, every cavalry seems get +1w this edittion, so extra 33-50% extra toughness( if have 2w or 3w), eels didnt get any wound for whatever reason, 5ward is only extra 33% thougness ( yes wounds and wards arent the same, but cloose enough) only charging, so even charging they got same threatment everyonelse, BUT lost his inmune rend, and they are useless not charging,the -1atk should have 100% minimun. so in general they are squishier ( 3 unrendeable was waaaay better) while every cavalry got sturdier. sharks lost some dmg i think, but got some utility, meh namartis....... were totally deleted from game. they were changed from doing 8,8-17,6 dmg to do 6,6-9,9 dmg..... like half dmg than before,yes they were really strong before but even so strong as they were, idk was on lowest spots and thralls were buffed for a good reason. now they are paper thin and dont do dmg.. whats his use???? i would say noone will use them since reavers will do more dmg and from ranged, but im sure they will shafted too, and now will do only 1 shot, or have 4+/4+ etc not the preview that you would expect from the book that has been among lowest posittion whole edittion ( besides the short time that sharks got buffed). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gailon Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 1 hour ago, Beliman said: I think @Lucentiawas talking about general rules. Btw, KOs have the same ability as an artifact, and only once-per-game, but no roll needed. And verminlord(s?) have a spell to do it. It’s a very powerful ability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommissarRotke Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 2 hours ago, Vasshpit said: I don't even play chaos but I think this is a fantastically suitable proxy from chaos space marines. Looks like you have to make sure the gun+holster can be removed safely though, which is a big ask on top of having to buy the full unit for a newbie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommissarRotke Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 1 hour ago, Dragon-knight77 said: Dawnbringer 6 in the epilouge where Ionus is carrying a broken Vandus to his tower TYSM! Looks like I need to snap up Books 5 and 6 when I can then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beliman Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 22 minutes ago, Kitsumy said: not the preview that you would expect from the book that has been among lowest posittion whole edittion ( besides the short time that sharks got buffed). Try to no compare your 4th edition army to your 3th edition. Look to other faction focus and do your mathammer/ theoryhammer based on them, instead of anything that comes from 3th. It's been working for me since KO faction focus, I'm not even mad if I lost the Code, my vehicles or even no words about Aethergold. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitsumy Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 1 minute ago, Beliman said: Try to no compare your 4th edition army to your 3th edition. Look to other faction focus and do your mathammer/ theoryhammer based on them, instead of anything that comes from 3th. im doing this. thats the reason i said every cavalry got +1wounds, but eels not, and it is the reason because they are way worse now, if i would compare them to 3.0 in a vacuum they would be worse, but not so much worse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vasshpit Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 (edited) 3 hours ago, CommissarRotke said: Looks like you have to make sure the gun+holster can be removed safely though, which is a big ask on top of having to buy the full unit for a newbie. There's options, could green stuff into a sachel, or it's nothing a dremel can't fix. If we're doing the $$ math you could also look at it like this, a single hero would cost $35-40 for one wheres this gets you four more minis to do something with for another $20. Regardless I really don't care as I don't play chaos but I think it's a cool mini and was just trying to help. Edited June 4 by Vasshpit 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonhel Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 38 minutes ago, Kitsumy said: yes totally agree. there is a reason because noone played soulscryer whole edittion( ability was totally useless for this army), now they deletted our CORE faction pasive of only shot clossest unit in enchange of the scryer useless ability... great. rituals got removed, and addes as ligther version on caster with 66%.... another huge hit since it should have 100% and tidecaster lost his spell, and it was the only okish spell we had. sea eidolon was amomg worst scrools whole edittion,now it lost his reroll casts for +1 ( waaaay worse), cant heal himself, keep doing half dmg than others masive mage monsters do, lost his mortal spell, lost his bravery aura. only won bad abilitys, overall a 4/10 scroll went down to 2/10 at best, great. ishlaen got worse for no reason, every cavalry seems get +1w this edittion, so extra 33-50% extra toughness( if have 2w or 3w), eels didnt get any wound for whatever reason, 5ward is only extra 33% thougness ( yes wounds and wards arent the same, but cloose enough) only charging, so even charging they got same threatment everyonelse, BUT lost his inmune rend, and they are useless not charging,the -1atk should have 100% minimun. so in general they are squishier ( 3 unrendeable was waaaay better) while every cavalry got sturdier. sharks lost some dmg i think, but got some utility, meh namartis....... were totally deleted from game. they were changed from doing 8,8-17,6 dmg to do 6,6-9,9 dmg..... like half dmg than before,yes they were really strong before but even so strong as they were, idk was on lowest spots and thralls were buffed for a good reason. now they are paper thin and dont do dmg.. whats his use???? i would say noone will use them since reavers will do more dmg and from ranged, but im sure they will shafted too, and now will do only 1 shot, or have 4+/4+ etc not the preview that you would expect from the book that has been among lowest posittion whole edittion ( besides the short time that sharks got buffed). Yeah, you are right the Aspect of the Sea is a lot weaker, the removal of D3 healing with a succesful casting is a bummer. After a re-read of the faction focus I think I was a little bit to excited. My friend uses the Aspect of the Sea a lot. I think he will not be so happy with the new warscroll. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beliman Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Kitsumy said: im doing this. thats the reason i said every cavalry got +1wounds, but eels not, and it is the reason because they are way worse now, if i would compare them to 3.0 in a vacuum they would be worse, but not so much worse They only previewed two cavalry warscrolls: Freeguild Cavaliers and DreadbladeHarrows. The second one lost 2 wounds and the option to take artifacts and trait, and now they have the same 3 wounds as all previewed cavalry units, even with less models than akhelian (3) and freeguild riders (5). My advice: stop looking at anything that comes from 3rd edition. Focus only on 4th edition. That means, if cavalry is 3 wounds, expect to have the same (appart from monstruous cavalry, like Mournfangs). Same with basic troops, expect 4+/4+, unless you play with aelfs (3+/4+) or orruks (4+/3+), or grots, or Monsters (4+/2+). Don't expect 2+/2+ for your biggest heroes unless they are over-the-top, we only saw Yndrasta with that profile, not even god-like creatures like Kragnos. Imho, only Sigvald and some khorne heroes are going to rock that profile. Same with abilities, don't expect rerolls of any type, don't expect more defensive tools versus shooting (there are a ton, and most of them can be stacked and/or player around with a bunch of movement shenanigans). It removes a lot of frustation if you take this faction focus with that in mind. Edited June 4 by Beliman 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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