The Rumour Thread

[Sarouan]

8 minutes ago, Ejecutor said:

Don't forget that 30k got most of their new plastic kits since the second edition. Before it was like TOW.

MK VI was made for the last edition of HH, with all the plastic special / heavy weapons sprues, and including all the marine vehicles that come along with it. You're talking about previous versions of armors : those were indeed released again, but just count the number of new kits at that time - it makes Old World a laughing joke in comparison.

[The Lost Sigmarite]

7 minutes ago, Sarouan said:

MK VI was made for the last edition of HH, with all the plastic special / heavy weapons sprues, and including all the marine vehicles that come along with it. You're talking about previous versions of armors : those were indeed released again, but just count the number of new kits at that time - it makes Old World a laughing joke in comparison.

We should stop seeing Old World as AoS's version to HH with 40k, and see it more like LoTR - a game for a core of veterans with a range built around a core of older plastic models, supported by classic metal sculpts, for which the majority of releases are heroes or FW resin.

[sandlemad]

2 hours ago, Chikout said:

Those are all bad examples. Nagash and Arkhan are literally undead characters who can be killed any time. Lugft Huron was a historical character made by forge world and Tycho is a perfect example of the problem. He was a character that got killed off, but the playerbase got so mad, they had to bring him back. The same thing is happening with Yarrick right now. He wasn't in the most recent codex. The playerbase got mad and now GW are teasing a return. 

In 40k GW realised they moved the timeline on too quickly and had to retcon everything to reset it. 

 

At the risk of being pedantic, this isn’t correct. Huron was a long standing character for whom FW made a historical pre-chaos version after GW made a ‘modern’ chaos version.

Tycho wasn’t brought back, he died in the background and GW release two sets of rules for him, one representing the captain in his prime and one for just before his death. Same mini for both. Player reaction didn’t come into it at all, he’s been dead in the background for years while still being usable.

Moreover with Yarrick, his death was deliberately cloaked in mystery so they could bring him back while continuing to clear out the resin minis. The fans didn’t like it but it’s not as though GW was being reactive to them or, clearly, even bothered with ages and timelines in the background. I don’t think there’s any reason to think GW have ever given a toss about characters being ‘too old’, there’s always some magical whatsit to make it work.

[Flippy]

41 minutes ago, Ejecutor said:

I think the root of the problem is that we are still setting the pillars of the game. I know, it sounds weird after almost 10 years, but that's the truth.

Quantity & time will not magically generate quality. If something works it is usually obvious from the start. They need to change something in their approach to lore.

Having said that, I really liked this last DB story. All the major players involved and the Skaven, who are, from the start, infinitely better as villains and narrative driving force than bog orcs and pony god.

 

[Augusto]

the  "encaged" Kragnos can mean many things. i doubt it is a traditional cage.

also, you gain a lot of depth of the aos world(s) through bl novels. I read the dawnbringers books (not the last ond) and they can feel pretty shallow or superficial comparated to the  novels aos has to offer

[01rtb01]

51 minutes ago, Sarouan said:

MK VI was made for the last edition of HH, with all the plastic special / heavy weapons sprues, and including all the marine vehicles that come along with it. You're talking about previous versions of armors : those were indeed released again, but just count the number of new kits at that time - it makes Old World a laughing joke in comparison.

Plastic mkvi arrived for 2nd edition along with all the plastic heavy/ special weapons. First Ed only saw the plastic mkiii and iv.

As for 2.0 it's taken 2 years since release to get plastic assault marines and we still don't have plastic breachers and those plus assault marines are the legionary bread and butter. 

 

[Vasshpit]

18 minutes ago, Flippy said:

Skaven, who are, from the start, infinitely better as villains and narrative driving force than bog orcs and pony god.

It all depends on effort here, imo, to which the bog boyz recieved minimal. 

No matter as their models are infinitely cooler than rats. 😜

It's just science. 😁

[Flippy]

13 minutes ago, Vasshpit said:

It all depends on effort here, imo, to which the bog boyz recieved minimal. 

No matter as their models are infinitely cooler than rats. 😜

It's just science. 😁

They were done dirty by GW, I agree. But still, they also never generated existential threat like the one we have now at the start of 4th edition. You will not lure me into the models discussion - you probably already know what I think of orc weaklings who apparently canceled their gym membership.

Kragnos, however, was a mistake. Poor model, pointless plot.

 

[Chikout]

1 hour ago, sandlemad said:

At the risk of being pedantic, this isn’t correct. Huron was a long standing character for whom FW made a historical pre-chaos version after GW made a ‘modern’ chaos version.

Tycho wasn’t brought back, he died in the background and GW release two sets of rules for him, one representing the captain in his prime and one for just before his death. Same mini for both. Player reaction didn’t come into it at all, he’s been dead in the background for years while still being usable.

Moreover with Yarrick, his death was deliberately cloaked in mystery so they could bring him back while continuing to clear out the resin minis. The fans didn’t like it but it’s not as though GW was being reactive to them or, clearly, even bothered with ages and timelines in the background. I don’t think there’s any reason to think GW have ever given a toss about characters being ‘too old’, there’s always some magical whatsit to make it work.

I can out pedantic you. Tycho first appeared in a white dwarf battle report. The player made up his lore and he died in the battle report. GW thought it was cool for a character to actually die in a battle report, but they got letters begging for him to come back so they eventually gave him a model. 

The other point about Huron is my point.The main studio  made the current model. Forge world made the old one. As far as I'm aware the only time the main studio has deliberately made historical characters is as black library tie ins. 

The main point I was making though is that's it's much harder for GW to do another 200 year jump like we saw with second edition. If they didn't kill off all the mortal characters, they would really be stretching logic by suggesting that everyone's been knocking back Aqua Gyranis. It's supposed to be expensive and rare. 

Edited June 8 by Chikout

[Hollow]

The AoS Design studio needs to have a read of A Song of Ice and Fire. You can kill characters in a setting. How interesting would it be if AoS ended with the ritual torture and murder of Callis at the hands of the Ratmen, witnessed by a restrained Toll? Who goes mad with vengeance?

Warhammer has always been a "comic book" setting and the NERD rule will always apply. In which case, feel free to murder, maim and mutilate the setting's characters. You can always "bring em back". 

 

Edited June 8 by Hollow

[Beliman]

3 minutes ago, Chikout said:

it's much harder for GW to do another 200 year jump

That's a good point. I didn't know about that jump invetween editions lol.

Btw, what happened in all this years? And are we talking about 200 Aqshian years or 200 Shyshian years? Btw, Kharadrons don't even use years as a metric for time (Strahkstorm) for each realm.

Imho, if people don't even know why you made a 200 years jump, then it's not worth to do that jump.

[Neverchosen]

The funny thing is that I understand the critiques of AOS narrative but fundamentally love it as a setting, and enjoy the lore. I just have not been fond of the presentation of the lore. 

The choice to present the lore as traditional narrative prose feels contrary to this type of Epic Narrative that is the basis of Age of Sigmar. I want to be introduced to the Gods and world building through the in world beliefs and writings of the mortal realms. I would like this type of story integrated into the Battletomes and Rulebooks, grand sweeping events that are filtered through the fictional author's perspectives. In other words, I want the mortal realms to feature their own fictional versions of Homer, Herodotus, Vyasa, or the Apostles.
I want to see a Sigmarite priest's version of the duel between Archaon and Sigmar told as a parable. I want to see excerpts of a Hysian philosopher's thesis on the realms. I want to have an adventurer's ethnological journal investigating the faiths of the Tribes of Destruction. I want scholarly histories written by Khardron Historians that downplay the role of the gods. Give us descriptions of Archaon from a Chaotic propagandist that claims to live in the Varanspire. An Ossiarch Priest can tell stories about how the demonic Teclis simply postponed the might of Nagash, whereas the Lumineth book can address the major victory of Light over Death.
 
Then you continue to have the Romantic Heroic tales of figures that are below the Gods. These can be your more traditional Black Library tales about Gotrek, Callis and Toll, or Neave Blacktalon. But even here you can play with the narrative in fascinating ways, Callis and Toll can find Gotrek's tales farcical, and Neave can help establish interactions with the gods to confirm or deny aspects of the mythic tales. 

This way you can explore the mortal realms as a place steeped in ideological and religious differences. One where immortal gods fight epic battles, but it opens up our relationship to the narrative how accurate these tales truly are. Did Grungni truly battle Morathi to a standstill on the Steppes of an overflowing volcano... or did a Duardin King simply fight against a Melusai on a dormant volcano. According to one tradition it was the former and according to another the latter. But if this story speaks to a real world Black Library author they can investigate it in a novel and then establish the truth behind the legend. In a strange way the Horus Heresy poses a strange template for how Age of Sigmar can establish myths that get investigated more fully at a later date.

Edited June 8 by Neverchosen

[ScionOfOssia]

4 hours ago, Beliman said:

Arkhan, Nagash

They get around this by either being Arkhan manifesting and, where there’s enough Death magic, an avatar of Nagash ripping its way into reality. 

 

3 hours ago, Ragest said:

And what about Katakros

He was searching for a cure to his bodies falling apart because of the Slayer of Kings while also having to basically micro several wars simultaneously at any given time to prevent the empire from collapsing. By the end of the edition the empire had recovered and stabilized and he was back on the warpath before getting a vision of the coming Vermindoom and ordering the empire to stop expanding and brace for impact. 

[Beliman]

2 minutes ago, ScionOfOssia said:

They get around this by either being Arkhan manifesting and, where there’s enough Death magic, an avatar of Nagash ripping its way into reality. 

I get that, but there isn't an "Arkhan manifestation" warscroll or something like that for Nagash. Instead, we have the Nagash and Arkhan warscrolls without anything that reminds that they are KO in the setting.

And that's fine for me.

[sandlemad]

55 minutes ago, Chikout said:

I can out pedantic you. Tycho first appeared in a white dwarf battle report. The player made up his lore and he died in the battle report. GW thought it was cool for a character to actually die in a battle report, but they got letters begging for him to come back so they eventually gave him a model. 

The other point about Huron is my point.The main studio  made the current model. Forge world made the old one. As far as I'm aware the only time the main studio has deliberately made historical characters is as black library tie ins. 

The main point I was making though is that's it's much harder for GW to do another 200 year jump like we saw with second edition. If they didn't kill off all the mortal characters, they would really be stretching logic by suggesting that everyone's been knocking back Aqua Gyranis. It's supposed to be expensive and rare. 

Oh I know about Tycho's origin but tbh a random WD character without a mini in a very different era of GW doesn't feel all that pertinent to the situation of well established characters with minis.

RE: Huron, fair enough, I see your point about the main studio/FW distinction but would disagree about not making historical minis because WHFB was full of them. In 8th ed they made Azhag the Slaughterer, Ludwig Schwarzhelm and Gorbad Ironclaw, all of whom were dead in the 'current' WHFB of the time. Same in previous editions: Gorthor the beastlord in, I think, 4th or 5th edition and Borgio the Besieger in 5th ed.

To the larger point about it being hard for GW, I really don't think it is. Stretching logic is just not a concern of theirs. The minis and the characters come first and if they have to make up something about, say, X or Y character being trapped in a timeless warp-hole or similar which means they emerge scarred but unaged, they will.

[KingBrodd]

I just hope those Factions who havent been involved in the integral plot have a time to shine. Skaven are obviously but I want Fyreslayers, Kharadron, Idoneth, Ossiarch and Ogors to take a turn in the front seat.

[Augusto]

To be fair, the human mortals being mortals problems is even greater with the skaven or goblin characters. They have an even tinier life spam. And the solution its and was always elixirs/gifts from the gods/machine upgrades

[Ejecutor]

3 hours ago, Sarouan said:

MK VI was made for the last edition of HH, with all the plastic special / heavy weapons sprues, and including all the marine vehicles that come along with it. You're talking about previous versions of armors : those were indeed released again, but just count the number of new kits at that time - it makes Old World a laughing joke in comparison.

Cannot be compared, IMO, until we are 3 years into the edition.

[Ejecutor]

3 hours ago, Flippy said:

Quantity & time will not magically generate quality. If something works it is usually obvious from the start. They need to change something in their approach to lore.

Having said that, I really liked this last DB story. All the major players involved and the Skaven, who are, from the start, infinitely better as villains and narrative driving force than bog orcs and pony god.

 

That's true, but it will be also easier to make it fit and all be better if you don't have to be retconing the lore every two years before you have to adapt what you have to the launch of a brand new faction.

Edited June 8 by Ejecutor

[Dragon-knight77]

35 minutes ago, KingBrodd said:

I just hope those Factions who havent been involved in the integral plot have a time to shine. Skaven are obviously but I want Fyreslayers, Kharadron, Idoneth, Ossiarch and Ogors to take a turn in the front seat.

It low key feel like a it going to be a Dwarf edition coming how we have the Chrof coming along,

• the map key showing off all the dwarf bases
• 
• the Callis and Toll video emphasize duardin holds
• 

so yeah Fyreslayer is a safe bet to say they be involve (especially their home capital is right next to the cataclysm) unless it a beastmen situation

[Ejecutor]

39 minutes ago, Dragon-knight77 said:

It low key feel like a it going to be a Dwarf edition coming how we have the Chrof coming along,

• the map key showing off all the dwarf bases
• 
• the Callis and Toll video emphasize duardin holds
• 

so yeah Fyreslayer is a safe bet to say they be involve (especially their home capital is right next to the cataclysm) unless it a beastmen situation

And I think they also mentioned somewhere (FS FF?) KO and dispossesed.

[HorticulusTGA]

That last short story was quite good, showing the scope of the Hour of Ruin - Archaon's point of view being the most interesting to me. 

To echoe the discussion on AOS'lore, there were minor mistakes in the story that kinda reflect the fact we need more consolidated background : the author mistakes the Battle of Black Skies (where Nagash lose to Archaon) with the Battle of Burning Skies (where Sigmar lost Ghal Maraz). Also, while talking about the Great Parch, the author writes the Adamentium Chains (40k term) instead of the Adamantine Chains ...

[Baron Klatz]

4 hours ago, Beliman said:

That's a good point. I didn't know about that jump invetween editions lol.

Btw, what happened in all this years? And are we talking about 200 Aqshian years or 200 Shyshian years? Btw, Kharadrons don't even use years as a metric for time (Strahkstorm) for each realm.

Imho, if people don't even know why you made a 200 years jump, then it's not worth to do that jump.

It was between 2016 to 2017 with the Seeds of Hope leading to the Age of Hope and Age of Intrigue(where Tzeentch & Nagash started planting their agents through the new cities foundations)

Basically a quick 100-200 years timeskip so the basic settlements the Stormcasts claimed from the Realmgate wars could build up from meager towns huddled around portals into vast metropolises that we know today(Hammerhal, Tempests Eye, Greywater Fastness, etc)

and then Soul Wars skipped several decades along with Era of the Beasts adding to it that made a near century together and Verdrigris & Embergard just added more to it as it took several years to build those places(so we still be skipping in years if not centuries anymore).

Funny enough your Kharadron example also lines up with a recent Sylvaneth example as in Ghyran some of their seasons can last centuries thanks to Shyish causing them to magically grow & wane in their cosmic dance.

”Note that these seasonal cycles can take place over many years, even centuries. The current season of Wrathharvest began during the Realmgate Wars and is still ongoing in the Era of the Beasts.”

Edited June 8 by Baron Klatz

[Starfyre]

Maybe me being late to the party, but just noticed the Spearhead: Sons of Behemat that's appeared on the UK webstore,

It's £95, supposed that's the price the other sets are increasing to come Monday.

[Beliman]

2 minutes ago, Baron Klatz said:

It was between 2016 to 2017 with the Seeds of Hope leading to the Age of Hope and Age of Intrigue(where Tzeentch & Nagash started planting their agents through the new cities)

That's about the Season of War: Firestorm? I still think it's the best campaign book that AoS has. We have one in our gaming group, but I woudn't mind if GW makes a reprint of that box.