The Rumour Thread

[Ejecutor]

29 minutes ago, sandlemad said:

This is outright incorrect, though. A snippet of background for a single WHFB unit, it doesn't really have any connection at all to broader Beastclaw Raiders background except that both superficially feature ice.

BCR are a wholly AoS-original concept in almost every aspect. More so than FEC, Soulblight... honestly, in many regards (culture, origin, approach, metaphysics, method of war) they're at least as divorced from their WHFB ogre kingdom forbears as Cities of Sigmar are from WHFB Empire.

IMO it depends on where you draw the line. A unit that emanates frost vs an army that "emanates" frost. Or CoS pre-renewal, it was basically the Empire for me. Obviously, there are going to be changes, it is not the same setting, but those differences are too superficial for me.

Anyway, that's enough for me. Some of us will consider the new lore enough to be substantial changes and some won't, the whole point is if Ogors need a launch ed renewal or if something smaller mid-edition is enough.

[sandlemad]

40 minutes ago, Ejecutor said:

IMO it depends on where you draw the line. A unit that emanates frost vs an army that "emanates" frost. Or CoS pre-renewal, it was basically the Empire for me. Obviously, there are going to be changes, it is not the same setting, but those differences are too superficial for me.

Anyway, that's enough for me. Some of us will consider the new lore enough to be substantial changes and some won't, the whole point is if Ogors need a launch ed renewal or if something smaller mid-edition is enough.

It's about the same as saying that Lumineth have elven spearmen, just like High Elves, so Lumineth need a wholesale lore and identity renewal. The frost comparison is less meaningful, honestly. Slayers and Fyreslayers are about as connected.

The ogre aesthetics, concepts and narrative are meaningfully advanced from WHFB, and moreover unique to GW properties, unlike many other forces. The skaven comparison actually isn't an entirely bad one in that GW designers have stated explicitly that there was zero need to make substantial changes or skaven radically 'more AoS' as part of the 4th ed update. They were pretty blunt about considering that an actively bad idea as the concept and visual identity was all there, they just needed updated kits.

So too with ogres. I wouldn't say no to more stuff but I think they could be more or less updated with half a dozen new kits, not dissimilar to FEC or the last push on StD.

[Skreech Verminking]

5 hours ago, Jetlife said:

The current Ogors lack an AOS identity. While the gorgers are a really wild concept they may be the only thing currently on par with AOS fantasy. 

Aos identity?

they seem to be perfectly fantasy

unless you mean the removal of the guts, in which case I’d have to show you the door to that mawpot

[Skreech Verminking]

2 hours ago, Ejecutor said:

Apart from Gnawholes:

1. Their own subrealm.
2.Their deity playing with the big boys.
3.The structure is not the same. They are now all mixed.
4. Newer tech, but this could be kind of ignored.
5.Their own afterlife in Shyish.
6. Warpstone is fully integrated into the Mortal Realms ecosystem.

And the most obvious one, but this is deffo ignored as came with the refresh, the rataclysm.

IMO they are a step or two above Ogors. That's why I think Ogors refresh would happen in a launch edition box.

2. Well that is hard to say.

officially the horned rat has always been playing on the same field as the lesser chaos deities. They just never acknowledged it, and funnily enough even if he is considered the 5th chaos god (which we all know is false as he is the only chaos god) is still not really aknowledge by the others.

3. I’m not certain what you mean by structure.

if it is the clan structure, well it kinda is the same.

you could of course argue that the 4 great clans have spreaded into multiple smaller clans, but at that point we can easily go back to the old world and see a similar thing having existed back then.

just back then even the smaller daughter clans of for example pestilence, were all considered to be some of the numerous the warlord clans (verminus clans as they are called today)

5.the evergnaw, a fun addition yet in my oppinion less interesting then what they had in the old world from what they knew about the after live.

skaven are after all devious, jealous creature always interesting in backstabbing somebody and guaranteeing their own safety.

an afterlive of being consumed by the horned rat or being made into a Verminlord is a much more interesting fate that fits a lot better with the skaven

6. Well it’s hard to compare that to the lore of old. Skavenblight as it was then may not have been a city build on a huge island of warpstone, yet warpstone  was found in some locations vastly.

for crookback mountain, the hold Nagash once lived in, had a huge warpstone mine beneath the castle, something the skaven were inclined in steal-taking.

or the chaos waste was known to often have warpstone meteorite fall down from the sky, which was believed by the skaven that those where fragments of the Moon called Morrslieb.

these are just a few example of course.

yeah well, while a rataclysm sounds amazing and something the skaven may have never had that is only true for the what feels like entirety of aos.

during the end times they had their own rataclysm.

 

2 hours ago, Dragon-knight77 said:

i think you going have to explain that further because Skaven is like the least change in term of lore then any faction.

• Same clans and hierarchy
•  same Motivations
• Same wacky ideas, horror & hijinks
• same base of operation (literally just now it in the warp)
• Same characters 
• same name conventions as well

They're practically the same as before only now operated in a different scale from billions to now nearly infinite amount of them. Only real "newer" lore is them having gnawholes to explain their travel between realms rather then the typical demon manifestation

Ogers have bunch of new & different lore form their WHF counterpart then Skaven of all faction do 

Can’t change what is perfect.

[Sahrial]

I think we’re debating what is or isn’t AoS- enough when we could be celebrating how friggin rad Ogors are and be super psyched at the idea of a future range and lore expansion

 

[Jetlife]

3 hours ago, Sahrial said:

I think we’re debating what is or isn’t AoS- enough when we could be celebrating how friggin rad Ogors are and be super psyched at the idea of a future range and lore expansion

 

Correct. 
 

my post was to point out how much we’d enjoy them coming to the forefront and being THE main focal point of an edition launch. 

[Ejecutor]

What do we expect for today's preorders? Would it be too crazy for Blood Angles to be released already?

[Snarff]

6 minutes ago, Ejecutor said:

What do we expect for today's preorders? Would it be too crazy for Blood Angles to be released already?

Probably the previewed BL 40K books at least.

Hopefully Verminslayer is next

[Chikout]

8 minutes ago, Ejecutor said:

What do we expect for today's preorders? Would it be too crazy for Blood Angles to be released already?

It will probably be agents of the imperium. They've already started previewing rules which is normally a sign the book is coming soon. As it's not that big a release we may see some Necromunda or Old World alongside it. There will almost certainly be a reveal of the Sanguinor tomorrow. 

[cyrus]

41 minutes ago, Ejecutor said:

What do we expect for today's preorders? Would it be too crazy for Blood Angles to be released already?

I heard Dwarfs rest of plastic wave ( from a local forum can’t say if it is reliable)

According to Valrak tomorrow new model Monday is new sanguinary guard and new sanguinor.

[Charly2912]

Havent been active Here for a while. Did we hear ne rumours about Chaos dwarfs?

[JerekKruger]

17 hours ago, Dragon-knight77 said:

I mean there was that Warhammer community replay "just you wait" when someone asking "what does Stormcast look like when they past the threshold"  so i'm sure there a lighting ghiest some sort coming.

If be careful of paying much attention to WarCom replies. Their job is to keep up hype, and it's definitely not to tease potential releases before their official reveal (indeed, the people in charge of writing these replies likely do not know much, if anything, more than there readers specifically to avoid accidental leaks). This doesn't mean there won't be lightning gheists, just that this reply shouldn't be taken as evidence of such.

[JerekKruger]

11 hours ago, Dragon-knight77 said:

by the way Warhammer Instagram posted this 

I love how Callis and Toll seem completely oblivious to the Shaven on the other side of the sewer 😄

[JerekKruger]

8 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Aos identity?

they seem to be perfectly fantasy

unless you mean the removal of the guts, in which case I’d have to show you the door to that mawpot

This is true. I think claims that they don't have an AoS identity are based purely on two things: (i) that nearly they're entire range is a holdover from WHFB, so people who played that will naturally associate them with it (and therefore not AoS) and (ii) that nearly they're entire range is older and doesn't have the dynamic paint of modern AoS sculpts. 

But this is purely a mini aesthetics thing. As a faction (or arguably two mini factions) they have perfectly good AoS lore, and I can guarantee that if they get remade a la Skaven (i.e. mostly just modern reimagining of their current sculpts rather than a complete change of direction) they feel perfectly AoSy as any other faction.

[Garrac]

Ummm I wonder if the new verminlord model will follow the old verminlord guidelines, or it will be Belakor levels of epicness.

[Matrindur]

33 minutes ago, Garrac said:

Ummm I wonder if the new verminlord model will follow the old verminlord guidelines, or it will be Belakor levels of epicness.

If I remember correctly the new Verminlord will be in addition to the current one and not a replacement right? If so I think it would need some more epicness to justify its existence next to the old Verminlord. So probably something bigger, I hope a bit like the Tyranid Norn Emissary compared to the Hive Tyrant.

[Ejecutor]

7 minutes ago, Matrindur said:

If I remember correctly the new Verminlord will be in addition to the current one and not a replacement right? If so I think it would need some more epicness to justify its existence next to the old Verminlord. So probably something bigger, I hope a bit like the Tyranid Norn Emissary compared to the Hive Tyrant.

Just the fact that it is a named character (Vizzik) would imply extra epicness, IMO.

[Bosskelot]

As I said in the TOW subforum, the idea of an "AOS identity" is increasingly becoming blurred in recent years. The past 4 years of AOS releases have just seen straight range refreshes to WHFB factions that don't really depart from their original design roots in any real way at all, and even for AOS-specific factions like SCE they've seen a gigantic pivot to a grimmer darker aesthetic.

The past 4 years of AOS releases have essentially just been new WHFB models on round bases. The weird and whackiness of 2015-2019 AOS is a done thing. Those range refreshes have all been the most popular and well-received models AOS has ever had, and they certainly landed better and saw more success than grinning muscle skeletons and blind elves on flying sharks.

Ogors are fine where they are from a design standpoint. The only thing you can really ask of them is getting the finecast out of the range and updating the older plastic to have more dynamic models for their 40mm round bases.

Edited August 4 by Bosskelot

[Tonhel]

1 hour ago, Garrac said:

Ummm I wonder if the new verminlord model will follow the old verminlord guidelines, or it will be Belakor levels of epicness.

Lol, just want to say I love this model! One of the best ever done by GW.

[RetconnedLegion]

24 minutes ago, Bosskelot said:

As I said in the TOW subforum, the idea of an "AOS identity" is increasingly becoming blurred in recent years. The past 4 years of AOS releases have just seen straight range refreshes to WHFB factions that don't really depart from their original design roots in any real way at all, and even for AOS-specific factions like SCE they've seen a gigantic pivot to a grimmer darker aesthetic.

The past 4 years of AOS releases have essentially just been new WHFB models on round bases. The weird and whackiness of 2015-2019 AOS is a done thing. Those range refreshes have all been the most popular and well-received models AOS has ever had, and they certainly landed better and saw more success than grinning muscle skeletons and blind elves on flying sharks.

Ogors are fine where they are from a design standpoint. The only thing you can really ask of them is getting the finecast out of the range and updating the older plastic to have more dynamic models for their 40mm round bases.

It’s less a need or desire for a new aesthetic and more that they are still using leftover WHFB kits. The Beast Culling of two armies, both using WHFB kits, left me and others concerned others will be similarly cut in future. A Skaven/Seraphon level update of Ogors would make me much more confident of their future in the game. 

[Snarff]

41 minutes ago, Bosskelot said:

As I said in the TOW subforum, the idea of an "AOS identity" is increasingly becoming blurred in recent years. The past 4 years of AOS releases have just seen straight range refreshes to WHFB factions that don't really depart from their original design roots in any real way at all, and even for AOS-specific factions like SCE they've seen a gigantic pivot to a grimmer darker aesthetic.

Extremely hard disagree. I think AoS still has a very distinct identity, which a lot of WFB players seem to dislike.

Examples from the recent years include: Lumineth having the Aelementiri and gigantic cow/kangaroo elemental spirits and helmets. FeC and the court, which have models wearing intestines as a wig, and models like Ushoran which have not got any precedent in WFB. In addition to models like the offal hounds. Cities of Sigmar explicitly moving away from the single-period historical influence. Kruleboyz include a lot more fantastical creatures than you'd see in orcs and goblins. Sylvaneth and Nighthaunt are still getting releases which fit their Aesthetic. I don't think there are any bug riding wood sprites in the old world.

SCE have got an armor redesign, but in no way are they Grimdark. Dragon riding Stormcast and both Krondys and Kharazai were introduced very recently, and they are very much in line with the AoS wackiness. The 4th edition models are mostly updates to the new armor style, which is in no way more WFB than the original SCE.

I do agree that the Seraphon, Skaven and StD reworks are tame. That's mostly because they were literally WFB factions shoved into AoS. You can still see the evolution in Seraphon weaponry, the introduction of Gnawholes and making Skaven a ton more powerful. For StD you have the Warcry bands which are very different from anything that was part of Warriors of Chaos and models like Abraxia and Belakor which are also on a much larger scale than anything in WFB.

The AoS-original factions have just not existed for long enough to warrant complete overhauls. Fyreslayers are keeping their original AoS wackiness if the Warcry band is anything to go by.

41 minutes ago, Bosskelot said:

The past 4 years of AOS releases have essentially just been new WHFB models on round bases. The weird and whackiness of 2015-2019 AOS is a done thing. Those range refreshes have all been the most popular and well-received models AOS has ever had, and they certainly landed better and saw more success than grinning muscle skeletons and blind elves on flying sharks.

And yet if you visit any Fantasy or TOW forum they're largely negative on any new AoS release because it's 'not grounded enough' or 'too over the top'. I think you've just become used to the AoS Aesthetic. Making the setting a little darker and some designs a little darker does not mean AoS has no identity, or that it's suddenly WFB. WFB also had a lot of outright silly sculpts and lore.

Source on them being the most popular AoS models? I don't think either of us has access to those numbers. Tournament statistics and reddit polls are really not representative either. This just feels like your opinion mixed with anecdotal evidence.

 

Edited August 4 by Snarff

[Chikout]

35 minutes ago, Bosskelot said:

As I said in the TOW subforum, the idea of an "AOS identity" is increasingly becoming blurred in recent years. The past 4 years of AOS releases have just seen straight range refreshes to WHFB factions that don't really depart from their original design roots in any real way at all, and even for AOS-specific factions like SCE they've seen a gigantic pivot to a grimmer darker aesthetic.

The past 4 years of AOS releases have essentially just been new WHFB models on round bases. The weird and whackiness of 2015-2019 AOS is a done thing. Those range refreshes have all been the most popular and well-received models AOS has ever had, and they certainly landed better and saw more success than grinning muscle skeletons and blind elves on flying sharks.

Ogors are fine where they are from a design standpoint. The only thing you can really ask of them is getting the finecast out of the range and updating the older plastic to have more dynamic models for their 40mm round bases.

This is what AoS needed though. It needed more normal things to contextualise the wackiness and we still have things a sniper riding around on the back of an Ogor, a religion that venerates wheels but refuses to use them and a giant Troggoth who powers his major ability by hitting himself in the head.  Not to mention all the little snails with legs. Also the grimdark vibe has been there since the end of first edition. It's very much at the core of AoS. When you die in AoS, you are either taken over by the chaos gods, become a tortured ghost, get your soul eaten by idoneth leaving a still breathing but soulless body, have your conscious merged with others to become a slave in nagash's armies or are 'rescued' by Sigmar to fight for eternity, gradually losing your identity as you do. It's cool to see some Stormcast minis that are leaning into the lore that's been there from the start. 

[MitGas]

10 minutes ago, Snarff said:

SCE have got an armor redesign, but in no way are they Grimdark.

That Ionus guy definitely is… and the new lore is too. Nothing wrong with being a bit grimdark. 

[Snarff]

6 minutes ago, MitGas said:

That Ionus guy definitely is… and the new lore is too. Nothing wrong with being a bit grimdark. 

I disagree. It is retreading on some of the darker 1st edition lore, but that doesn't make it Grimdark immediately.

Grimdark is the hopeless 40K lore like 'millions of people are unwillingly sacrificed every day, the 'good guys' are facists and once you fall there is no redemption'.

Ionus is a lord relictor on a dragon (not that much darker in design than the 1st edition one) that aims to save the broken spirits of his allies and friends.

The 'darkest' new stormcast lore is that some stormcast voluntarily get euthanized in a touching ceremony once they no longer want to battle or they feel their minds are broken.

Is the lore a little darker now that chaos has struck a big blow? Yes. Is it anywhere near Grimdark? No, and AoS has never been. It has always been and still is about hope at its core.

[Chikout]

All  of these were released in 2024. I would say all of them are at least somewhat whacky.