Ejecutor Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 6 minutes ago, Clan's Cynic said: Rumour Engine time. Probably another 40k one as it's consistent with some of the others we've seen, but I've got to throw the obligatory "CHORFS?" out there. All of those robot-ish ones that we are getting lately smell like Votann. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lost Sigmarite Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 1 hour ago, Dragon-knight77 said: Yeah valrak stream was pressuring him to talk about it but all he say is "if you wan to know comeback here at 12 or something" wierd stream he was even complaining AOS after seeing the nu sang guard Typical Valrak behaviour : when his beloved SM get mid models, he complains about AoS. The problem is not AoS, it’s the 40k sculptors being lazy and complacent with their SM sculpts because they know they will sell well no matter how mid they are just because they’re SM. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acrozatarim Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 The pointy spikes on the back of the strut are very Chaos-y. HH Dark Mechanicum? Or Vashtorr minions for 40k? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ejecutor Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 2 minutes ago, Big Kim Woof-Woof said: If they were making such considerations, surely those stinkin' Chaos Ogres would never have seen the light of day again! Yeah, I think it is purely based on which moulds are in good shape and which ones aren't, like the never-released Bret Hero. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ejecutor Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 2 minutes ago, Big Kim Woof-Woof said: If they were making such considerations, surely those stinkin' Chaos Ogres would never have seen the light of day again! Yeah, I think it is purely based on which moulds are in good shape and which ones aren't, like the never-released Bret Hero. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ejecutor Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 It is not fully consistent, but there's almost a pattern of 40k-ish and then AoS-ish and restart lately with the REs: 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon-knight77 Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 24 minutes ago, The Lost Sigmarite said: Typical Valrak behaviour : when his beloved SM get mid models, he complains about AoS. The problem is not AoS, it’s the 40k sculptors being lazy and complacent with their SM sculpts because they know they will sell well no matter how mid they are just because they’re SM. To be fair to him he was complaining and complimenting that AoS has really good sculptors that 40k SM is lacking rn and basically say the same exact thing your saying 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clan's Cynic Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 44 minutes ago, Big Kim Woof-Woof said: If they were making such considerations, surely those stinkin' Chaos Ogres would never have seen the light of day again! At least those Chaos Ogres will have a sort of 'old model charm' for some people. The poor Forsaken are from 8th edition! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sathrut Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 (edited) 1 hour ago, The Lost Sigmarite said: Typical Valrak behaviour : when his beloved SM get mid models, he complains about AoS. The problem is not AoS, it’s the 40k sculptors being lazy and complacent with their SM sculpts because they know they will sell well no matter how mid they are just because they’re SM. Just watched the stream and he says "I'm telling you right now, AoS is making 40K look like a child's product. Whoever's on the AoS team, can we please add them to the 40K team, they're on fire, they're literally on fire. Please. Please. Someone. Anyone." He's complaining about the 40K team for the reasons you mentioned, and complimenting the AoS team, as he's done numerous times at this point. Edit: I wasn't aware that it's the same group of sculptors working on both games. Still, the fact the sculptors are pumping out banger after banger for AoS, and 40K in comparison is stagnation and minimal innovation, it's clear the sculptors love the freedom of AoS. Edited August 13 by Sathrut 12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EonChao Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 15 minutes ago, Dragon-knight77 said: To be fair to him he was complaining and complimenting that AoS has really good sculptors that 40k SM is lacking rn and basically say the same exact thing your saying Valrak's talking out his ass though. AoS and 40k don't have separate sculpting teams, it's one team of main studio sculptors that work on 40k, AoS, Underworlds, Warcry, Kill Team, and Warhammer Quest. I don't want to get into it too much but I have been fortunate enough to know and be friends with people who've worked in the studio. I've never asked them about what they're working on because I don't want to jeopardise their jobs but they will sometimes talk about what they sculpted after they've been revealed or released and they all tend to work on all of those games. 13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AquaRegis Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 7 minutes ago, EonChao said: Valrak's talking out his ass though. AoS and 40k don't have separate sculpting teams, it's one team of main studio sculptors that work on 40k, AoS, Underworlds, Warcry, Kill Team, and Warhammer Quest. I don't want to get into it too much but I have been fortunate enough to know and be friends with people who've worked in the studio. I've never asked them about what they're working on because I don't want to jeopardise their jobs but they will sometimes talk about what they sculpted after they've been revealed or released and they all tend to work on all of those games. If you know, is it a case that the AOS team have more creative freedom in what they can work on, whilst the 40k team have to follow more established designs and because 40k is more popular have more higher up interference? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chikout Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 18 minutes ago, Dragon-knight77 said: To be fair to him he was complaining and complimenting that AoS has really good sculptors that 40k SM is lacking rn and basically say the same exact thing your saying It’s all one team though. Darren Latham did Belakor, the eldar avatar, Ragnar Blackmane and the lord Terminos. Seb Perbert did guilliman, Abaddon, Archaon and the lion. Maxime Pastourel did the Maw Grunta, the Maw Crusha, mortarion a bunch of death guard and was the lead on the Warcry project. The project managers also work on both AoS and 40k. There are a few designers who only do 40k but they are mostly vehicle specialists. We’ve even seen Tom Walton sculpt a few AoS minis recently. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth 🍄 Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 Maybe making more Space Marines at this point is just incredibly boring for the sculptors. AoS minis seem far more interesting and fun creatively to work on IMO. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ejecutor Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 18 minutes ago, Chikout said: It’s all one team though. Darren Latham did Belakor, the eldar avatar, Ragnar Blackmane and the lord Terminos. Seb Perbert did guilliman, Abaddon, Archaon and the lion. Maxime Pastourel did the Maw Grunta, the Maw Crusha, mortarion a bunch of death guard and was the lead on the Warcry project. The project managers also work on both AoS and 40k. There are a few designers who only do 40k but they are mostly vehicle specialists. We’ve even seen Tom Walton sculpt a few AoS minis recently. But now that Skavens will have vehicles, they can move into AoS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonhel Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 The sculptors are the same. The sculptor who did the new Sanguinary guard could be the same sculptor that did the new Stormcast. There is just not so much freedom with established ranges as Space Marines compared with what they can do with AoS. 40k and to a lesser degree TOW are miniatures wise much more limited than AoS 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitGas Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Gareth 🍄 said: Maybe making more Space Marines at this point is just incredibly boring for the sculptors. AoS minis seem far more interesting and fun creatively to work on IMO. It‘s not just boring for the sculptors, what can you realistically do with the same mini over and over? There‘s not enough variation in most cases that it could inspire the artists. Imagine SCE had even more of the same kits, with a couple details slapped on to differentiate various hosts- people are mostly already kinda fed up with them and the ones are objectively great minis. Multiply that with various chapters/legions and it‘s bound to happen that people start caring less. 40k either needs more variety in their SM sculpts (new armor marks, helmets whatever) or bring out more Xenos stuff. Updating old stuff like those Blood Angels 1:1 and not trying to make them hella dynamic or something special will make most people just yawn. Hell, most people just yawn if they‘re total bangers too. Some factions just get too much while others don‘t get enough. Edit: I bet that people would be all over updated minis that rock the older style armors, like the classic vented helmets. The new helmets are not the true SM look. I definitely prefer Infiltrators e.g. to Intercessors (I think those are the names) solely because Infiltrators have helmets closer to the true look of SM. So yeah, GW needs to make such a unit and people will gobble it up again. It‘s good that different marks can coexist but making any specialist units for a single chapter will only interest collectors of said chapter. Would need to be absolutely outstanding to make others care. Edited August 13 by MitGas 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EonChao Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 (edited) 25 minutes ago, AquaRegis said: If you know, is it a case that the AOS team have more creative freedom in what they can work on, whilst the 40k team have to follow more established designs and because 40k is more popular have more higher up interference? I don't know, as I said I don't tend to ask too much about the behind the scenes stuff because I don't want to jeopardise their jobs, but based on what's been mentioned by former GW staffers I've spoken to and in interviews, like some of the things Peachy or Sugs have said, and from that I think Valrak's missing the mark. From my understanding there is an AoS team and a 40k team, but that's on a game design level not a sculpting one. They're in charge of planning out waves and books, for each edition, as well as writing the rules. They'll have a budget for the edition that they can use of the main sculpting team's time and that will be divided across each faction in the game. They will then tell the sculptors what they want and they'll get to making it. Sometimes that will be telling the sculptors what they want exactly (Abaddon will likely have been something like that), other times it might be more vague (design a new Custodian character mini). Where I think this has an effect on the quality of minis is that 40k is more established as a setting, it's harder to find completely new design space that feels fresh to the players. AoS is fertile creative ground. With the Skaven you might have had someone tell the sculptors that they need to make new clan rats and Stormvermin, which will have significant existing design cues, but also stuff like the Master Moulder and Warlock Galvaneer which are less concrete and give more freedom. Space Marines as a whole are very uniform, they lack the flexibility for creative expression that the sculptors thrive on. That doesn't mean they don't like them but it does mean that it can be harder to make a kit that wows the community. If they get a big exciting kit it's going to be a Primarch, Dreadnought or Tank, and only one of those is really going to have those wow factors that make the most exciting minis in all the games. Even within 40k they're kind of unexciting, look at them compared to Orks, Tyranids, Necrons or Deathguard, where those factions get to have exciting ramshackle vehicles, big monsters, eldritch beings and grotesque mutations. And those are areas where most of AoS thrive. Again this is my thoughts based on little bits I've picked up across a whole range of sources but it feels accurate with my own experiences working for big companies. Edited August 13 by EonChao 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deakz28 Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 2 hours ago, Dragon-knight77 said: Yeah valrak stream was pressuring him to talk about it but all he say is "if you wan to know comeback here at 12 or something" wierd stream he was even complaining AOS after seeing the nu sang guard Yeah that too but starting to think they won't just beacuse they could keep up with the 40k roadmap Are we sure it’s today for reveal, or was it in reference to the video he posted today at 12? Which is the eternity gate animation? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrac Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 (edited) Ummmm i dont want to higher up my expectations on Nova cos we may not get even a single rattie... But starting to acumulate some hype is tempting... Edited August 13 by Garrac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrawlingCleaner Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 (edited) 27 minutes ago, EonChao said: Where I think this has an effect on the quality of minis is that 40k is more established as a setting, it's harder to find completely new design space that feels fresh to the players. I think this is largely where I'm at for Imperium focused releases, I think they're largely creatively bankrupt and just rehashes of older models to play it safe. That's not to say that redoing older models is a bad thing or to dunk on the designers, it's just that we have such a swathe of Space marines basically constantly, that the silhouette, the vibe or the aethetics don't change. If you fix the issues folks have with the Sanguinary guard for example, they're still just gold space marines. I feel like this was the case way before Primaris were a thing but Primaris have magnified that somewhat. They're very innovative and create extremely rad ranges when they aren't constricted by Imperium (Admech are the outlier IMO) or Space Marines. Votann, GSC, Orks, Kroot, Tau, CSM, World Eaters, Death Guard, 'Nids are all extremely sick Stormcast don't feel that oppressive as the system's posterfolk because there's not 12 individual factions or an entire game system and universe based solely on them. Even as Posterfolk, SCE don't get the same level of releases etc, although they probably would be if they had the same level of attention! 😁 All my opinion of course, nothing here is fact 😊 Edited August 13 by TrawlingCleaner 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ejecutor Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 22 minutes ago, EonChao said: I don't know, as I said I don't tend to ask too much about the behind the scenes stuff because I don't want to jeopardise their jobs, but based on what's been mentioned by former GW staffers I've spoken to and in interviews, like some of the things Peachy or Sugs have said, and from that I think Valrak's missing the mark. From my understanding there is an AoS team and a 40k team, but that's on a game design level not a sculpting one. They're in charge of planning out waves and books, for each edition, as well as writing the rules. They'll have a budget for the edition that they can use of the main sculpting team's time and that will be divided across each faction in the game. They will then tell the sculptors what they want and they'll get to making it. Sometimes that will be telling the sculptors what they want exactly (Abaddon will likely have been something like that), other times it might be more vague (design a new Custodian character mini). Where I think this has an effect on the quality of minis is that 40k is more established as a setting, it's harder to find completely new design space that feels fresh to the players. AoS is fertile creative ground. With the Skaven you might have had someone tell the sculptors that they need to make new clan rats and Stormvermin, which will have significant existing design cues, but also stuff like the Master Moulder and Warlock Galvaneer which are less concrete and give more freedom. Space Marines as a whole are very uniform, they lack the flexibility for creative expression that the sculptors thrive on. That doesn't mean they don't like them but it does mean that it can be harder to make a kit that wows the community. If they get a big exciting kit it's going to be a Primarch, Dreadnought or Tank, and only one of those is really going to have those wow factors that make the most exciting minis in all the games. Even within 40k they're kind of unexciting, look at them compared to Orks, Tyranids, Necrons or Deathguard, where those factions get to have exciting ramshackle vehicles, big monsters, eldritch beings and grotesque mutations. And those are areas where most of AoS thrive. Again this is my thoughts based on little bits I've picked up across a whole range of sources but it feels accurate with my own experiences working for big companies. It is true that more established settings have less room for new and exciting stuff, but isn't it your job as a sculptor basically to find that? When you as a company say you have the best minis, the best games and all that, you cannot lower the gas pedal, so IMO, GW has failed in that aspect with 40k recently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ejecutor Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 18 minutes ago, Garrac said: Ummmm i dont want to higher up my expectations on Nova cos we may not get even a single rattie... But starting to acumulate some hype is tempting... I wouldn't expect many more rats unless they come from Commemorative Series, Warcry or UW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrac Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 7 minutes ago, Ejecutor said: I wouldn't expect many more rats unless they come from Commemorative Series, Warcry or UW yes, I expect Warcom to go do a trick and be like "We said you'd get all the reveals... for the AoS minis". If I were to begin raising my hype, what Id expect would be a Warhammer+ model, and a warcry band Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber SunStorm Posted August 13 Subscriber Share Posted August 13 We should get to see the new Warhammer+ miniatures soon I think. Previous years they were shown off: 25 Aug 23 - https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/08/25/new-warhammer-miniatures-subscribe-to-take-your-pick-from-two-exclusive-models/ 14 Aug 22 - https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/08/14/revealed-the-chaos-fuelled-warhammer-year-two-miniatures/ 23 Jun 21 (but launched on 25th August) - https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/06/23/warhammer-is-unmissable-heres-everything-you-need-to-know/ 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyrus Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 3 hours ago, Asbestress said: Warcry: Ash Skaven Wastes New Warbands: Ash Skaven Waste Nomads Ironhead Dispossessed Duardin Prospectors Vehicles for all major factions (new GSG Spider Riders, Spider Incarante) The edition after this will be set inside the ruins of Hammerhal Secundus featuring malformed Genestealers Flesh Eaters. There was actually a rumors back in April ( not from our rumormongers) about mordheim-esque Warcry set in a ruined city . With vermindoom we have a bunch of ruined cities in Asqhy infested by rats 🐀 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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