The Rumour Thread

[EonChao]

55 minutes ago, TrawlingCleaner said:

I think this is largely where I'm at for Imperium focused releases, I think they're largely creatively bankrupt and just rehashes of older models to play it safe. That's not to say that redoing older models is a bad thing or to dunk on the designers, it's just that we have such a swathe of Space marines basically constantly, that the silhouette, the vibe or the aethetics don't change. If you fix the issues folks have with the Sanguinary guard for example, they're still just gold space marines. I feel like this was the case way before Primaris were a thing but Primaris have magnified that somewhat. They're very innovative and create extremely rad ranges when they aren't constricted by Imperium (Admech are the outlier IMO) or Space Marines. Votann, GSC, Orks, Kroot, Tau, CSM, World Eaters, Death Guard, 'Nids are all extremely sick

Stormcast don't feel that oppressive as the system's posterfolk because there's not 12 individual factions or an entire game system and universe based solely on them. Even as Posterfolk, SCE don't get the same level of releases etc, although they probably would be if they had the same level of attention! 😁

All my opinion of course, nothing here is fact 😊

I think the recent run of Marines have been hampered by the fact they're refreshing older kits. So it's both more Space Marines and more Space Marines we already have. The Primaris just spread their already monolithic presence in the franchise even wider with so many slightly different units. In effect they've managed to dilute the impact of the Space Marines on a fan level by maintaining too uniform a feel for branding purposes. None of the other factions across 40k or AoS are struggling with their own success but unfortunately, people will still keep buying them.

50 minutes ago, Ejecutor said:

It is true that more established settings have less room for new and exciting stuff, but isn't it your job as a sculptor basically to find that?

When you as a company say you have the best minis, the best games and all that, you cannot lower the gas pedal, so IMO, GW has failed in that aspect with 40k recently.

No, that's not the case at all. If you're a sculptor working independently then maybe, if you're a sculptor working within a big company with a target set for you by someone more senior you work to that specification. If they've said make a Space Marine jump unit you only have so much room compared to say Flesh Eater Courts judge, Crone witch oracle or even Genestealer psyker. The issue is that Space Marines as a whole are a known value, doubly so when it's refreshing older kits, so it's harder to make them spark.

And that's the key, Games Workshop are the company who make the best minis, but that doesn't mean all of their minis are the best. Some are average, some are just pretty good, others might be bad. But they do still have the best minis. Just look at their top 10 minis for 2023, every single one of those is incredible. Vashtorr, Dante, the Norn Emissary, Farsight, Angron, and the Lion are all amazing sculpts from 40k, and AoS had even more.

40 minutes ago, Garrac said:

yes, I expect Warcom to go do a trick and be like "We said you'd get all the reveals... for the AoS minis".

If I were to begin raising my hype, what Id expect would be a Warhammer+ model, and a warcry band

The one thing you have against that is the Space Marine Scouts were released through Kill Team but previewed with all of the other new Space Marine kits at NOVA last year. Not saying it won't happen but it could be a later box in the season of Warcry if it does.

[CommissarRotke]

1 hour ago, Ejecutor said:

It is true that more established settings have less room for new and exciting stuff, but isn't it your job as a sculptor basically to find that?

when your setting is predicated on "there is only war" you already have a bit of a small room, and tbh I think a bunch of the new primaris releases nail how ridiculous that concept is--people just didn't like it because they wanted tacticool and not tongue-in-cheek.

[Hollow]

Yeah, I'm not buying the - 40k is "creatively bankrupt" narrative... at all. There are unlimited different avenues in which designers could take Marines. 40k is a Galaxy spanning setting, encompassing millions of worlds. I like the new Sanguinary Guard. 

[Tonhel]

4 minutes ago, Hollow said:

Yeah, I'm not buying the - 40k is "creatively bankrupt" narrative... at all. There are unlimited different avenues in which designers could take Marines. 40k is a Galaxy spanning setting, encompassing millions of worlds. I like the new Sanguinary Guard. 

Yeah, the current 40K releases are what they are because it sells extremely well with its current aesthetic. While we all think the new AoS Stormcast are great, it still remains to see how it is selling.

Edited August 13 by Tonhel

[DinoJon]

Just now, Hollow said:

Yeah, I'm not buying the - 40k is "creatively bankrupt" narrative... at all. There are unlimited different avenues in which designers could take Marines. 40k is a Galaxy spanning setting, encompassing millions of worlds. I like the new Sanguinary Guard. 

Although I'm not the biggest fan of the new Sanguinary Guard (it's more of a modelling thing than design thing), I wholly agree that 40k is a near limitless setting that designer's have to work with. 

That's one of the things that I like so much about Age of Sigmar as well, the setting you can really do anything and go anywhere. 

I really think the new Stormcast of the Ruination chamber are a great example of GW constantly refining the design and pushing it further to make something that is much more appealing. 

[IronVIke]

2 hours ago, AquaRegis said:

If you know, is it a case that the AOS team have more creative freedom in what they can work on, whilst the 40k team have to follow more established designs and because 40k is more popular have more higher up interference?

I think you make a great point here. 40k has still put out a couple AOS level kits over the past couple years.

- Tyranid release (especially the lichtors and norn emiisary)

- Kroot (This was massively applauded) 

- Some of the necromunda and kill team kits have shown some unique flair as well

- That Angron model and fulgrim transfigured gives a ton of hope surrounding future demon primarch sculpts

 

I think one major issue is that with AOS and the fantasy setting you have such variety in each of the factions that allows for a ton of artistic interpretation and implementation of special story telling details. Where as in 40k you have the xeno forces that have some variety but then the majority of the factions have so much structural overlap. 

Imagine if AOS was like....ok were are going to release 12 variations of the Stormcast units. now liberators come in 12 different flavors and we will make minor adjustments to their helmets and pauldrons to differentiate them. I think any artist would become mired in the repetition and frustration of (how do I make these stand out) Its why for example cities of sigmar probably wont come out with 12 different variations of knights or freeguild cavaliers. Where we get frustrated with Stormcast bloat, that's an entire 40k faction that is stuck with the same framework that artists have to slap a different cover on to try and distinguish them from each other. I can see how that's difficult as an artist to really make special.

Also there is the community culture and response to artistic expression that I think is a major factor as well. when your hemmed in by your own fan base who are willing to be very vocal about the inclusion of nipples on armor or not. Or if you make a portion of an army female in lore the responses are less than supportive from your community. If people freaked out on me in my job over slight changes I'd immediately be like "eff this I'm not going to push the artistic boundaries because there's too much risk involved". I think the 40k community hasn't realized that you cant be hyper critical about change yet be surprised at a lack of artistic variety at the same time. I think the AOS community is getting better sculpts because artistic expression keeps getting received with "oh well i guess my wallet is taking another hit! gimme gimme gimme". 

Note: I think the 40k community is amazing I just think that the AOS community is much more open to changing narratives/lore, artistic expression/interpretation, and benefits from having much more faction variety than 40k. And on that note.....Vizzik Skour....Gimme Gimme Gimme!

[Sahrial]

I once pitched, semi in jest, semi for serious, what if sometime way pre heresy the emperor sent a secret seed fleet out on a multi generational voyage to settle and colonize some part of the universe/galaxy even beyond the scope of anything they knew about, and they were supposed to be welcomed back thousands of years later when he finished his webways project and expanded it /somehow I dunno Macguffin/ but obviously that didn’t happen, so they waited and evolved and are their own mix of Terran and Astartes and new stuff and hey maybe some xenos coalition and they finally decided to send a fleet and figure out what the heck went wrong cause obviously something went wrong, so these strange ships show up and see the tyranids and gene stealer cults and demons and a zombie on a throne and go “what the HELL did you guys do while we were gone” and proceed to start invading/re-taking imperial worlds under the guise of the true imperium that hasn’t fallen into weird cult military facism and yknow just throw another faction into the mix that’s still human based but can get crazy with the aesthetic and design plan

[The Lost Sigmarite]

31 minutes ago, IronVIke said:

I think you make a great point here. 40k has still put out a couple AOS level kits over the past couple years.

- Tyranid release (especially the lichtors and norn emiisary)

- Kroot (This was massively applauded) 

- Some of the necromunda and kill team kits have shown some unique flair as well

- That Angron model and fulgrim transfigured gives a ton of hope surrounding future demon primarch sculpts

Ok so basically when you leave the loyalist Marines range suddenly you get minis that are not repetitive and actually creative ? NO WAY !

I think that if Primaris units had different helmets patterns it would already create a lot more variety. I love the MkX power armour, but what I liked about the older marines is the mix of helmet and armour styles. Sadly, the Primarines kit only have the MkX helmets, which are cool (I like the MkIV they're based on) but you miss the beakie and face grill helmets, that you only find in upgrade packs... Same for the studed shoulder pads.

[Snarff]

1 hour ago, Hollow said:

Yeah, I'm not buying the - 40k is "creatively bankrupt" narrative... at all. There are unlimited different avenues in which designers could take Marines. 40k is a Galaxy spanning setting, encompassing millions of worlds. I like the new Sanguinary Guard. 

40K has almost as much room for creativity as AoS, but they just don't use any of that room. Xenos releases are still few and far between and that's where literally all the creativity lies (AdMech is amazing too).

As a 40K lore casual I really cannot sse the difference in models between most space marine chapters (except for the colours). Primarchs are an exception, and they are all great centrepieces. But all the Blood Angels models were to me just 'space marines but painted gold this time'. Even the recent inquisitor dude with the double headed eagle looked like just another space marine to me. I think that's the big problem.

Stormcast have this problem much less. They're only treated as a single army, and don't dominate what feels like more than half the releases. Their silhouettes are also much more distinctive. Hallowed knights, anvils, celestial vindicators, etc. are all part of this faction, and not getting releases individually while pretending they're different armies. That's what 40K chapters feel like.

[Beliman]

2 hours ago, Hollow said:

Yeah, I'm not buying the - 40k is "creatively bankrupt" narrative... at all. There are unlimited different avenues in which designers could take Marines. 40k is a Galaxy spanning setting, encompassing millions of worlds. I like the new Sanguinary Guard. 

Completely agree. 

Imho, Imperial Armory books are the best campaign books that I've read from GW, and all of them are from 40k (Tamurkhan behind, but a few levels below).

I would pay A LOT of money for 2 or 3 AoS books made with the same quality of Seige of Vraks or Badab Wars.

[mawhis117]

On 3/5/2024 at 9:53 AM, Sarges said:

No. At this point I believe that we gaslighted each other that it was a real rumour and we'll get Lady of Ruin + some Nurgle character from Rumour Engines at most.
 

 

The way his ascension was written in Dawnbringers 6 where he switched between multiple forms ("a Hound, then a thing of chained axes, then a scorpid abomination, then all of these things and none") seemed to me to be a hint that he's getting a model. 

If he wasn't going to get one, they'd just say that he became a Bloodthirster.

[The Lost Sigmarite]

29 minutes ago, Snarff said:

40K has almost as much room for creativity as AoS, but they just don't use any of that room. Xenos releases are still few and far between and that's where literally all the creativity lies (AdMech is amazing too).

As a 40K lore casual I really cannot sse the difference in models between most space marine chapters (except for the colours). Primarchs are an exception, and they are all great centrepieces. But all the Blood Angels models were to me just 'space marines but painted gold this time'. Even the recent inquisitor dude with the double headed eagle looked like just another space marine to me. I think that's the big problem.

Stormcast have this problem much less. They're only treated as a single army, and don't dominate what feels like more than half the releases. Their silhouettes are also much more distinctive. Hallowed knights, anvils, celestial vindicators, etc. are all part of this faction, and not getting releases individually while pretending they're different armies. That's what 40K chapters feel like.

There's also a lot of difference in the attention chapters get, like I get that Blood Angels or Dark Angels get special units but there's many "codex" chapters that deserve more than just a mandatory hero. Like give me more Raven Guard, White Scars, Iron Hands characters, from both the 1st founding chapter and their successors. Remember when FW did that in the Imperial Armour days ? It used to be so great and it allowed people to get hyped for other SM chapters like the Minotaurs, Red Scorpions, Raptors, Carcharodons, Mantis Warriors... I personally liked when they released that UM successor captain as the BL celebration novel - even if he felt like a generic marine - because it felt fresh to see a new chapter represented in mini form.

This is what AoS should do with the SCE hosts : we have Hallowed Knights and Hammers of Sigmar characters, we need more of these for the other stormhosts !

Edited August 13 by The Lost Sigmarite

[Ejecutor]

10 minutes ago, The Lost Sigmarite said:

There's also a lot of difference in the attention chapters get, like I get that Blood Angels or Dark Angels get special units but there's many "codex" chapters that deserve more than just a mandatory hero. Like give me more Raven Guard, White Scars, Iron Hands characters, from both the 1st founding chapter and their successors. Remember when FW did that in the Imperial Armour days ? It used to be so great and it allowed people to get hyped for other SM chapters like the Minotaurs, Red Scorpions, Raptors, Carcharodons, Mantis Warriors... I personally liked when they released that UM successor captain as the BL celebration novel - even if he felt like a generic marine - because it felt fresh to see a new chapter represented in mini form.

This is what AoS should do with the SCE hosts : we have Hallowed Knights and Hammers of Sigmar characters, we need more of these for the other stormhosts !

Did you say Hamilcar?

[The Lost Sigmarite]

2 minutes ago, Ejecutor said:

Did you say Hamilcar?

I'm pretty sure I did ? 🤔

[Ejecutor]

Just found out that GW is selling the Hel Crown map as display art: 'Hel Crown' Poster, picture, metal print, paint by Warhammer | Displate

Maybe that's all for it in the end...

Edited August 13 by Ejecutor

[PraetorDragoon]

5 minutes ago, Ejecutor said:

Just found out that GW is selling the Hell Crow map as display art: 'Hel Crown' Poster, picture, metal print, paint by Warhammer | Displate

Maybe that's all for it in the end...

A Hell Crow would be pretty badass.

[mawhis117]

13 minutes ago, Ejecutor said:

Did you say Hamilcar?

Cerrus Sentanus would be cool

[Ejecutor]

I was doing an Excel with some battletomes data and I found it that Nurgle got its battletome announced for preorder on the 2nd and 3rd editions on December. Maybe this will be repeated again?

[NotBeastmanBob]

25 minutes ago, Ejecutor said:

I was doing an Excel with some battletomes data and I found it that Nurgle got its battletome announced for preorder on the 2nd and 3rd editions on December. Maybe this will be repeated again?

A very good possibility due to the amount of Rumor Engines that are Nurgle-esque

[MitGas]

3 hours ago, Sahrial said:

I once pitched, semi in jest, semi for serious, what if sometime way pre heresy the emperor sent a secret seed fleet out on a multi generational voyage to settle and colonize some part of the universe/galaxy even beyond the scope of anything they knew about, and they were supposed to be welcomed back thousands of years later when he finished his webways project and expanded it /somehow I dunno Macguffin/ but obviously that didn’t happen, so they waited and evolved and are their own mix of Terran and Astartes and new stuff and hey maybe some xenos coalition and they finally decided to send a fleet and figure out what the heck went wrong cause obviously something went wrong, so these strange ships show up and see the tyranids and gene stealer cults and demons and a zombie on a throne and go “what the HELL did you guys do while we were gone” and proceed to start invading/re-taking imperial worlds under the guise of the true imperium that hasn’t fallen into weird cult military facism and yknow just throw another faction into the mix that’s still human based but can get crazy with the aesthetic and design plan

Sounds like fun actually! 👍

[korvain]

10 hours ago, HorticulusTGA said:

@Whitefang back me up I don't see a Mini doomwheel for Warcry or Underworld, and I'm quite confident we have seen all Skaven releases for main AOS for the time being. 

So can the mini doomwheel you rumored be something akin to the Kharadron exclusive model but for a warplock engineer ?

It's true that between Kill Team Saturday and NOVA thursday we should see the Warhammer Plus models revealed !

I would assume he was just misidentifying the new doom flayer model

[Flippy]

1 hour ago, The Lost Sigmarite said:

There's also a lot of difference in the attention chapters get, like I get that Blood Angels or Dark Angels get special units but there's many "codex" chapters that deserve more than just a mandatory hero. Like give me more Raven Guard, White Scars, Iron Hands characters, from both the 1st founding chapter and their successors. Remember when FW did that in the Imperial Armour days ? It used to be so great and it allowed people to get hyped for other SM chapters like the Minotaurs, Red Scorpions, Raptors, Carcharodons, Mantis Warriors... I personally liked when they released that UM successor captain as the BL celebration novel - even if he felt like a generic marine - because it felt fresh to see a new chapter represented in mini form.

This is what AoS should do with the SCE hosts : we have Hallowed Knights and Hammers of Sigmar characters, we need more of these for the other stormhosts !

You think the answer to 40k creative stagnation is „more SM chapters”?

Isn’t that like another Death Star in SW?

[CommissarRotke]

2 hours ago, Ejecutor said:

Just found out that GW is selling the Hel Crown map as display art: 'Hel Crown' Poster, picture, metal print, paint by Warhammer | Displate

Maybe that's all for it in the end...

It's not even the Skaven-victory map which makes this so weird... I hope we get an answer for "why this map" before 2025. We could've gotten Realm maps.

[JerekKruger]

On 8/12/2024 at 4:29 PM, NotBeastmanBob said:

Also Valkia anyone as the named Character?

I hope not, because if she is it makes it much less likely she'll get a glow up in AoS, and let's be honest, she'd get a much more dynamic and impressive glow up in AoS than TOW.

[Magnusaur]

Don't know if this means anything to anyone, but Valrak just off-handedly confirmed that Chaos Dwarfs are coming for Sigmar and that he's seen them. We already heard from Whitefang, of course, but just figured I'd bring it up.