Nezzhil Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 1 hour ago, cyrus said: So the mini doomwheel of @Whitefang back me up is coming with underworlds 🐀 🛞 Good news and very happy underworlds is stay around ! 😊👍 If Underworlds Will have a Core box each six months It stills sounds more like a dead game. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ejecutor Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 3 hours ago, Nighthaunt Noob said: Can't give the farm away...how about this - there was speculation a few days back on a certain faction making an appearance in underworlds before showing up in AoS. Let's just say that was a good guess. Also, yes of course we're going to see the classic mirroring of the new edition factions per usual. All aboard to the choo choo choooorfs train! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ejecutor Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 2 hours ago, Dragon-knight77 said: alright boys speculation back on the menu! classic mirroring could be anything CoS vs Slaves to Darkness Stormcast vs Khorne Lumineth vs Slaanesh Skaven vs Seraphon Stormcast vs Nighthaunt Sylvaneth vs Nurgle Chaos dwarfs vs Kharadon Stormcast vs Orks dam Stormcast they ruin the Setting /s I think with classic mirroring they just mean a VS box, not having a classic rivalry represented. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ejecutor Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 1 hour ago, cyrus said: So the mini doomwheel of @Whitefang back me up is coming with underworlds 🐀 🛞 Good news and very happy underworlds is stay around ! 😊👍 That leaves us with more speculation for the W+ AoS model. If the 40k is a bunch of Ratlings cooking, maybe we get a Chorf? Or would it be too weird to have it before the full army? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonhel Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 5 hours ago, Chikout said: It's depends how you view things. In the case of 40k, the lore is exceptionally popular. In 40k it goes lore, miniatures, video games, games in that order of popularity. With fantasy it goes video games, lore, game, miniatures.(One of the reasons fantasy died is that they had a stable playerbase who all had enough miniatures, so the sale of new minis fired up) For AoS, it's miniatures, game, lore, video games (there are no good AoS video games). I think that right now AoS is GW's seconds most popular game system with the least popular lore. I think this hits the nail on the head! AoS miniatures are the best plastic mini's in the hobby and 4th edition is their best AoS ruleset yet. The strongest points for TOW are the lore and a mass ranked game with lots of customization (certainly if you don't play WAAC). TOW feels refreshing, because it was put 10 years in the fridge. I really like TOW, but if this was released after 8th edition instead of AoS, fantasy would still have died. If GW brings out a 240 page tome like the HH: Siege of Cthonia, but than about the last part of the Empire civil war, the affair of the false grail, a campaign around Finubar and the rise of Teclis and Tyrion or maybe something new. Which introduces a lot of new armies of infamy, units, characters, even with almost zero new miniatures, it will still be a massive succes. 14 minutes ago, Nezzhil said: If Underworlds Will have a Core box each six months It stills sounds more like a dead game. Imo, waste of resources if it's only this. Than the resources would have been better used for a couple of extra Warcry warbands or supplements. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyrus Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 41 minutes ago, Nezzhil said: If Underworlds Will have a Core box each six months It stills sounds more like a dead game. Come on my friend: if a new season is coming it is alive ! 👍 There are still many AoS/ mortal realms haters out there that they wish it was all dead after 9 years 💪 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeckles Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 Hey all, Underworlds community organizer here. I have it on good authority that Vegas will have 1-2 running the Underworlds, it's just that the previous guy can't do it again. Besides, they don't have a magic palantir that we don't., 9 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ejecutor Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 Prices of the week. It seems everything from LOTR is online only: 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PraetorDragoon Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 6 minutes ago, Ejecutor said: Prices of the week. It seems everything from LOTR is online only: Huh. I would have expected the book to be available to retailers. Minis being online only isn't surprising as those are all forgeworld resin stuff, and those don't get to stores in general. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PraetorDragoon Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 1 hour ago, Nezzhil said: If Underworlds Will have a Core box each six months It stills sounds more like a dead game. Why are there so many people so pessimistic that they want to kill off Underworlds? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nezzhil Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 1 minute ago, PraetorDragoon said: Why are there so many people so pessimistic that they want to kill off Underworlds? Because Wintermaw didn't receive any release outside the Corebox. All previous Spring seasons were ending at Summer with two more warbands, two decks and a complementary content. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EonChao Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 1 hour ago, Nezzhil said: If Underworlds Will have a Core box each six months It stills sounds more like a dead game. Any game getting continuous regular releases over 7 years after its initial release is very much alive. The fact that they'd be adjusting the business model to make it a new core box every 6 months over the current one would show that there's not only demand for it but also that GW are paying attention to how players are buying the product and adjusting accordingly. 1 hour ago, Tonhel said: I think this hits the nail on the head! AoS miniatures are the best plastic mini's in the hobby and 4th edition is their best AoS ruleset yet. The strongest points for TOW are the lore and a mass ranked game with lots of customization (certainly if you don't play WAAC). TOW feels refreshing, because it was put 10 years in the fridge. I really like TOW, but if this was released after 8th edition instead of AoS, fantasy would still have died. If GW brings out a 240 page tome like the HH: Siege of Cthonia, but than about the last part of the Empire civil war, the affair of the false grail, a campaign around Finubar and the rise of Teclis and Tyrion or maybe something new. Which introduces a lot of new armies of infamy, units, characters, even with almost zero new miniatures, it will still be a massive succes. Imo, waste of resources if it's only this. Than the resources would have been better used for a couple of extra Warcry warbands or supplements. A big issue AoS has is we live in a bit of a stunted society where memorisation of facts and figures is seen as vaunted and amazing. It's a big issue in terms of the impact schools and how they "teach" can effect us a long time after. Because of this there's a huge fanbase for various things who engage minimally with that hobby in terms of the actual hobby, but instead do so through the content creator circuit. And for them it's easier to watch a lore video about the various hints about the missing Primarchs, than it is to watch a battle report or painting video, because memorising facts and figures from the lore video means that person can repeat those points in future conversations in sub reddits and discords ad nauseum. It's also why there's a big issue whenever there's a change in the lore from GW, because it suddenly seems to invalidate that memorisation of facts. This is part of what's led to TOW seeming to be a lot more alive than AoS in some online spaces. Yes it's feeling fresh after being shelved for most of a decade, but it also has decades of fairly concrete lore from before AoS replaced WFB that these same people can dig into either through old wikis or rulebooks. They'll spend hours and hours discussion minutiae and keeping the game alive. AoS on the other hand has the problem that GW intentionally designed it's early lore to be incredibly vague without really even any maps or other details. Now I would say that's part of its charm but to begin with it was frustrating, and without that concrete timeline of events it's hard to get people excited about it who aren't playing either it, Warcry or Underworlds from a lore perspective. So at the moment AoS lives and dies as a game on the quality of its models (fortunately always going well) and gameplay. That will eventually correct itself, as more and more gets added to the Mortal Realms, but it's always going to be a rocky process until we have enough lore and novels to get people hooked in that fashion as well. I've said before that AoS is one of the best settings for us as players to build our own corners of, but GW also need to begin to really expand it beyond the end of edition campaign books and into putting out more novels. 8 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GloomkingWortwazi Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 (edited) 24 minutes ago, PraetorDragoon said: Why are there so many people so pessimistic that they want to kill off Underworlds? It's been in a weird place production wise with reduced packaging quality (cost cuts), worse printing on worse card stock (cuts), sketchy balance passes and a seemingly half finished season this season. Mix with that reports of very enthusiastic UW players (like myself as noted in posts weeks ago, who used to keep teams for new players to help bring people into the fold) who have dead play scenes in their locals and nearby - then add to that the strange bingo of who gets to keep them in their battletomes and no indication of further rerelease/rebalance packs for UW itself (and we all know there are still some warbands that need it badly!) and it seems rather limp... A lot of the online and local communities I'm part of for UW are in the same headspace and a lot of us have stopped trying to get events/games running and sold off our collections. I'm not saying it's for certain, but it gives me the same vibe as a gacha game on skin event life-support. P.S. edit: this viewpoint comes from someone who basically mained UW as their GW game of choice and acted as an evangelist in three different regions in multiple clubs/stores - not someone from the sidelines. Edited August 19 by GloomkingWortwazi fixed my horridly rushed formatting 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juicy Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 PLAYED TONS of underworld. But atm trying to get more into spearhead for the smaller format. I find my friend starting to get more into spearhead aswel in favor of underworlds. I still love the underworld format and hope it aint death. Cause i like a smaller game next to the big AOS 4.0 ( 4.0 is awsome so far) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrac Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 The lack of rumours on Warcry and the n xt warhammer+is preocupying (for me), i need a leaker to fulfill my completely selfish and niches tastes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GloomkingWortwazi Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 (edited) 29 minutes ago, EonChao said: Any game getting continuous regular releases over 7 years after its initial release is very much alive. The fact that they'd be adjusting the business model to make it a new core box every 6 months over the current one would show that there's not only demand for it but also that GW are paying attention to how players are buying the product and adjusting accordingly. I disagree with this, unpopular opinion or not. The example of reduced warbands and expedited core boxes mostly acts as a seasonal force refresh loop for existing dedicated players and without enough cause or value collapses a game. The business model as a regular seasonal "new units" release with added functions is exceptionally similar to the (mostly F2P) video games industry battle pass and seasonal/patch events format: drop a new unit, new skin, new game modes or temporary rulesets. It starts off refreshing, interesting, even charming... and then it gets a little draining... then it slows down to match player interest... then in finality it dies off almost completely and exists to keep the product on life support and entice only the most dedicated of the remaining player base. Larger games with larger interest can sustain the model longer. AoS and 40K can live in the charming to draining part of the loop until the sun burns out and goes cold because the player base is so enormous and devoted. The smaller games can't and a slowdown of releases is an indicator of the beginning of that products life cycle burnout - and that is OK! It's had many solid years and it doesn't change how fun it is / was. Anyway, I think I'm derailing this too much by talking more about UW's health as a product and community and not enough about the rumours around it. So, I'll try and reign it in. Point is I love it and wish it would stay around, but it's already lost a lot of will with me and everyone I know who plays it where I am now and have been previously. It's fine either way. I want more WarCry rumours please! Edited August 19 by GloomkingWortwazi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ejecutor Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 2 minutes ago, GloomkingWortwazi said: I disagree with this, unpopular opinion or not. The example of reduced warbands and expedited core boxes mostly acts as a seasonal force refresh loop for existing dedicated players and without enough cause or value collapses a game. The business model as a regular seasonal "new units" release with added functions is exceptionally similar to the (mostly F2P) video games industry battle pass and seasonal/patch events format: drop a new unit, new skin, new game modes or temporary rulesets. It starts off refreshing, interesting, even charming... and then it gets a little draining... then it slows down to match player interest... then in finality it dies off almost completely and exists to keep the product on life support and entice only the most dedicated of the remaining player base. Larger games with larger interest can sustain the model longer. AoS and 40K can live in the charming to draining part of the loop until the sun burns out and goes cold because the player base is so enormous and devoted. The smaller games can't and a slowdown of releases is an indicator of that beginning of the products life cycle burnout - and that is OK! It's had many solid years and it doesn't change how fun it is / was. Anyway, I think I'm derailing this too much by talking more about UW's health as a product and community and not enough about the rumours around it. So, I'll try and reign it in. Point is I love it and wish it would stay around, but it's already lost a lot of will with me and everyone I know who plays it where I am now and have been previously. It's fine either way. I want more WarCry rumours please! Fingers crossed about Warcom announcing today Nova's roster. Hopefully we can have some silhouettes for next week. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GloomkingWortwazi Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 6 minutes ago, Ejecutor said: Fingers crossed about Warcom announcing today Nova's roster. Hopefully we can have some silhouettes for next week. Hopefully! Fingers crossed for elites refresh via WarCry and some Stormcast teasers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagard Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 Do we know something about the mini reveal today? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PraetorDragoon Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 44 minutes ago, GloomkingWortwazi said: It's been in a weird place production wise with reduced packaging quality (cost cuts), worse printing on worse card stock (cuts), sketchy balance passes and a seemingly half finished season this season. Mix with that reports of very enthusiastic UW players (like myself as noted in posts weeks ago, who used to keep teams for new players to help bring people into the fold) who have dead play scenes in their locals and nearby - then add to that the strange bingo of who gets to keep them in their battletomes and no indication of further rerelease/rebalance packs for UW itself (and we all know there are still some warbands that need it badly!) and it seems rather limp... A lot of the online and local communities I'm part of for UW are in the same headspace and a lot of us have stopped trying to get events/games running and sold off our collections. I'm not saying it's for certain, but it gives me the same vibe as a gacha game on skin event life-support. P.S. edit: this viewpoint comes from someone who basically mained UW as their GW game of choice and acted as an evangelist in three different regions in multiple clubs/stores - not someone from the sidelines. Ah, that is a fair view. I have noticed a bit that there is some tendency to write off specialist games very quickly and people seem even giddy about doing so. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EonChao Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 18 minutes ago, GloomkingWortwazi said: I disagree with this, unpopular opinion or not. The example of reduced warbands and expedited core boxes mostly acts as a seasonal force refresh loop for existing dedicated players and without enough cause or value collapses a game. The business model as a regular seasonal "new units" release with added functions is exceptionally similar to the (mostly F2P) video games industry battle pass and seasonal/patch events format: drop a new unit, new skin, new game modes or temporary rulesets. It starts off refreshing, interesting, even charming... and then it gets a little draining... then it slows down to match player interest... then in finality it dies off almost completely and exists to keep the product on life support and entice only the most dedicated of the remaining player base. Larger games with larger interest can sustain the model longer. AoS and 40K can live in the charming to draining part of the loop until the sun burns out and goes cold because the player base is so enormous and devoted. The smaller games can't and a slowdown of releases is an indicator of the beginning of that products life cycle burnout - and that is OK! It's had many solid years and it doesn't change how fun it is / was. Anyway, I think I'm derailing this too much by talking more about UW's health as a product and community and not enough about the rumours around it. So, I'll try and reign it in. Point is I love it and wish it would stay around, but it's already lost a lot of will with me and everyone I know who plays it where I am now and have been previously. It's fine either way. I want more WarCry rumours please! You're not wrong about how it works for live service games and the like, but for things involving actual physical product it can often be very different. When you're having to balance producing new sculpts, printing cards and boards and the production chain involved with that, especially with GW's recent issues with production capacity, then it's easier for them to let the game pretty much dwindle and disappear like they did with Aeronautica or the original release of Cursed City than to string them along for whatever tiny bit of profit you can squeeze from it. I don't think Underworlds will be around forever, but I do think it's getting into a holding pattern like Blood Bowl with slow but steady releases and that suggests to me it's likely to be around for the next couple of years at least. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaliontil Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 13 minutes ago, Vagard said: Do we know something about the mini reveal today? I think it is probably going to be the new Blood Angels Combat Patrol (Sanguinary Guard, captain, and something else) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagard Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 1 minute ago, Thaliontil said: I think it is probably going to be the new Blood Angels Combat Patrol (Sanguinary Guard, captain, and something else) nothing new then? we already saw all the models who will be in this box right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GloomkingWortwazi Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 1 minute ago, EonChao said: You're not wrong about how it works for live service games and the like, but for things involving actual physical product it can often be very different. When you're having to balance producing new sculpts, printing cards and boards and the production chain involved with that, especially with GW's recent issues with production capacity, then it's easier for them to let the game pretty much dwindle and disappear like they did with Aeronautica or the original release of Cursed City than to string them along for whatever tiny bit of profit you can squeeze from it. I don't think Underworlds will be around forever, but I do think it's getting into a holding pattern like Blood Bowl with slow but steady releases and that suggests to me it's likely to be around for the next couple of years at least. I mostly agree with that. The willingness of support and the timeframe I remain skeptical on however, as it is a main studio side product unlike Blood Bowl. Different stakeholders, different margins, and all of that nonsense. I still suspect this next iteration is our final season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ejecutor Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 25 minutes ago, Vagard said: Do we know something about the mini reveal today? My bet is 40k today and a Stormcast tease next Monday in preparation for Nova. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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