The Rumour Thread

[Beliman]

32 minutes ago, Tonhel said:

Imo, this should be the case for all godlike beings. They have no place on the battlefield. I don't need to see Malerion as a mini, but would love to see his army.

Or maybe take down their power? Dark fantasy (or whatever is called) always take place in a world/universe were the gods (or god-like entitites) lost their power or at least, their are far away from their peak.

The Age of Heroes/Myths ended long time ago. We already have archetypes that steal powers from gods (Morathi), Gods that are scratching the veil of reality (any god taken down by more usual Gods), I woudn't mind if simle mortals can acquire the power or weapons to kill gods to make the circle completely round.

9 minutes ago, Snarff said:

FS and KO actually did get some more.

FS got Doomseeker, Runemaster, Flamekeeper and Grimhold Exile are the heroes, plus the Vulkyn Flameseekers. FS also got Endless Spells and a Terrain piece.

KO got Drekki Flynt, Endrinmaster w suit and Codewright.

Completely right! I forgot about Drekki Flynt.
Btw, maybe I'm wrong, but I remember that the Doomseeker was part of the Warhammer Quest. Btw, I completely agree with the "unique" characters that are not in AoS anymore. Sad to see them go.

13 minutes ago, Ejecutor said:

That's what I mean. Everyone has their own tiers or preferences. GW won't be able to please us all in the short term as our tiers don't necessarily have to match the ones made by GW.

My preference is all about Kharadrons and Chaos Dwarfs, but what it needs to be done is not.

Edited 22 hours ago by Beliman

[Danaork]

29 minutes ago, Tonhel said:

À mon avis, cela devrait être le cas pour tous les êtres divins. Ils n'ont pas leur place sur le champ de bataille. Je n'ai pas besoin de voir Malerion en miniature, mais j'aimerais voir son armée.

So many ancient FB players who have collect or just like Malekith model and who plays AoS deserve to see a new model for this character.

[Sarouan]

It's more about having a great centerpiece model in your army, I believe. If they can make a stunning miniature of Malekith in AoS, that's plenty enough.

[Snarff]

37 minutes ago, Beliman said:

Or maybe take down their power? Dark fantasy (or whatever is called) always take place in a world/universe were the gods (or god-like entitites) lost their power or at least, their are far away from their peak.

The Age of Heroes/Myths ended long time ago. We already have archetypes that steal powers from gods (Morathi), Gods that are scratching the veil of reality (any god taken down by more usual Gods), I woudn't mind if simle mortals can acquire the power or weapons to kill gods to make the circle completely round.

I mean, the gods are already on the back foot. They can be killed (Godsbane)/seriously incapacitated (Nagash/Grimnir and Teclis to an extent). New gods or godlike entities can be born (the twins), people can ascend to godhood (morathi), gods can return (Grimnir).

Having gods be present like in Greek/Norse mythology is one of the driving points of AoS. Having them be available on the tabletop is something that makes the game unique.

I feel like most of the gripes people have with the gods are by people associating gods only with the christian/muslim/jewish concept of what a god would be, rather than seeing them as a pantheon powerful but not necessarily omnipotent entities like so many other religions do. Primarchs and the emperor in 40k are about the same in terms of plot armor, power level and relevance but I see far fewer complaints about them. I think the AoS pantheon is much cooler.

47 minutes ago, Beliman said:

Btw, maybe I'm wrong, but I remember that the Doomseeker was part of the Warhammer Quest.

It was, but it got separate packaging and unique rules for mainline AoS too so I will count it, just like I will count the Vulkyn Flameseekers as a FS release for the same reasons.

48 minutes ago, Beliman said:

My preference is all about Kharadrons and Chaos Dwarfs, but what it needs to be done is not.

What 'needs to be done' is unfortunately very different form person to person. I feel like some people would rather see less popular smaller armies discontinued instead of expanded upon. I'd love to see FS, KO and IDK get expanded too, but GW is unpredictable. Sometimes they do update smaller armies (like FeC), other times they just keep piling on more kits (often redundant or lacking in synergy) to factions that are already nearly too big for their battletomes (S2D, GSG, SCE).

[Tonhel]

43 minutes ago, Danaork said:

So many ancient FB players who have collect or just like Malekith model and who plays AoS deserve to see a new model for this character.

Small differerence is that in WHFB he was the Witch king, still an Elf who rode a black dragon and there was an Elven God Pantheon who weren’t resembled ingame. Now he is a god, so why does he need a mini. Same as Teclis and Tyrion. They shouldn’t be on the battlefield. There is enough room to make new heroic characters that could be beautiful centerpieces on the battlefield. Anyway that’s another discussion, but I would love that the Gods would take a step back.

[Tonhel]

2 minutes ago, Snarff said:

I mean, the gods are already on the back foot. They can be killed (Godsbane)/seriously incapacitated (Nagash/Grimnir and Teclis to an extent). New gods or godlike entities can be born (the twins), people can ascend to godhood (morathi), gods can return (Grimnir).

Having gods be present like in Greek/Norse mythology is one of the driving points of AoS. Having them be available on the tabletop is something that makes the game unique.

I feel like most of the gripes people have with the gods are by people associating gods only with the christian/muslim/jewish concept of what a god would be, rather than seeing them as a pantheon powerful but not necessarily omnipotent entities like so many other religions do. Primarchs and the emperor in 40k are about the same in terms of plot armor, power level and relevance but I see far fewer complaints about them. I think the AoS pantheon is much cooler.

It was, but it got separate packaging and unique rules for mainline AoS too so I will count it, just like I will count the Vulkyn Flameseekers as a FS release for the same reasons.

What 'needs to be done' is unfortunately very different form person to person. I feel like some people would rather see less popular smaller armies discontinued instead of expanded upon. I'd love to see FS, KO and IDK get expanded too, but GW is unpredictable. Sometimes they do update smaller armies (like FeC), other times they just keep piling on more kits (often redundant or lacking in synergy) to factions that are already nearly too big for their battletomes (S2D, GSG, SCE).

Primarchs aren’t Gods. The Emperor is a god and thus not represented in game.

[Beliman]

5 minutes ago, Snarff said:

I mean, the gods are already on the back foot. They can be killed (Godsbane)/seriously incapacitated (Nagash/Grimnir and Teclis to an extent). New gods or godlike entities can be born (the twins), people can ascend to godhood (morathi), gods can return (Grimnir).

Having gods be present like in Greek/Norse mythology is one of the driving points of AoS. Having them be available on the tabletop is something that makes the game unique.

100% this. Completely agree, but what I was trying to say is just reduce their powerlevel. Instead of 700+points, reduce all of them to 450-500p, and make other non-godlike creatures the same level (mega-gargants, big monsters, even big warmachines like Ironclad).

The feeling that the gods are not at their peak, that you normal joe can kill them with luck and maybe a nuclear bomb, that's what it matters.

Edited 21 hours ago by Beliman

[Big Kim Woof-Woof]

3 minutes ago, Beliman said:

100% this. Completely agree, but what I was trying to say is just reduce their powerlevel. Instead of 700+points, reduce all of them to 450-500p, and make other non-godlike creatures the same level (mega-gargants, big monsters, even big warmachines like Ironclad).

... and big-up Synessa and Dexcessa to be on the same sort of level. Ta. 

[Kronos]

17 minutes ago, Tonhel said:

Small differerence is that in WHFB he was the Witch king, still an Elf who rode a black dragon and there was an Elven God Pantheon who weren’t resembled ingame. Now he is a god, so why does he need a mini. Same as Teclis and Tyrion. They shouldn’t be on the battlefield. There is enough room to make new heroic characters that could be beautiful centerpieces on the battlefield. Anyway that’s another discussion, but I would love that the Gods would take a step back.

Variety really is the spice of life. What draws me more to AoS is specifically that there are gods (small G) leading armies. Teclis, Tyrion, Nagash, bring them all, Chaos Gods though? No That’s where I draw a line, But I think that’s because they’re more of an EldritchEvil unable to manifest other than as Daemons. Where Teclis is very very powerful, albeit killable being. 
 

I suppose I see it almost as the difference of Valar and Maiar. I want more “Maiar” in game, for everyone. 

14 minutes ago, Tonhel said:

Primarchs aren’t Gods. The Emperor is a god and thus not represented in game.

Horus Ascended matches him in power though no? So it is feasible surely? (Just how strong was that Ork Warboss to get hold of him 😂)
 

 

Edited 21 hours ago by Kronos

[Snarff]

3 minutes ago, Tonhel said:

Primarchs aren’t Gods. The Emperor is a god and thus not represented in game.

Primarchs are their chapter's respective leaders, just like the AoS gods are often of their armies. The Emperor is comparable to Sigmar. They're even relatively similar in point cost, albeit a bit more expensive (considering that 40K point costs are in general lower and model counts per army are higher). AoS barely has any god models too. Teclis, Morathi, Kragnos, Nagash and Alarielle.

I really think they're not that different in terms of their respective roles. I think people are just hung up on the fact that they are called gods, while they actually are really close to Greek and Norse gods. They are already killable on the tabletop and allow for interesting and different army compositions, and definitely part of what makes the setting and game so interesting. Same with the Primarchs.

[Snarff]

2 minutes ago, Kronos said:

Chaos Gods though? No That’s where I draw a line, But I think that’s because they’re more of an EldritchEvil unable to manifest other than as Daemons. Where Teclis is very very powerful, albeit killable being. 

I mean, the Greater Daemons (especially the named ones) fill their roles as god-equivalent on the tabletop quite nicely (though they could do with some buffs, especially the Slaanesh twins). Just like the Celestant-Prime does for Stormcast and Archaon/Be'lakor does for STD. The Mortarchs kind of do the same for death armies as well, but they also have the option of taking Nagash.

[Snarff]

19 minutes ago, Beliman said:

100% this. Completely agree, but what I was trying to say is just reduce their powerlevel. Instead of 700+points, reduce all of them to 450-500p, and make other non-godlike creatures the same level (mega-gargants, big monsters, even big warmachines like Ironclad).

I don't know. I kind of like that they are real powerhouses and require a good investment points-wise. It's a trade-off if you want to bring them. I think models like Ironclads, named greater demons and King Brodd could actually use an increase in powerlevel rather than decreasing that of the gods. More armies deserve worthwhile (in power and in model) centrepieces as an option to add to an army. If huge models are cheap to bring, they lose what makes them so impactful in the first place.

22 minutes ago, Beliman said:

The feeling that the gods are not at their peak, that you normal joe can kill them with luck and maybe a nuclear bomb, that's what it matters.

I feel like that's already the case. But not every normal dude should be able to kill a faction leader, it should require formidable firepower even if they're not at their strongest. But that's already the case. A good KO airfleet can carpetbomb the life out of god models, and moments/battles like that are what I live for. If faction leaders and god models were weak, they wouldn't be nearly as satisfying to bring down.

[Ejecutor]

33 minutes ago, Snarff said:

I feel like most of the gripes people have with the gods are by people associating gods only with the christian/muslim/jewish concept of what a god would be, rather than seeing them as a pantheon powerful but not necessarily omnipotent entities like so many other religions do. Primarchs and the emperor in 40k are about the same in terms of plot armor, power level and relevance but I see far fewer complaints about them. I think the AoS pantheon is much cooler.

IMO it is because they don't feel like real gods, but just overturned humans while the AoS gods feel closer to proper gods, if that makes sense.

[Lucentia]

Yeah, having various gods stomping around alongside their mortal followers is one of my favourite parts of AoS (And tends to be a quick and easy selling point for the type of game/theming at play, in my experience.)  And the 700+ point range feels about perfect to me, a big enough investment that you're naturally building your army around them, but simultaneously too large a price tag to generally wind up as an auto-include required piece.  (Assuming the rules match the points cost, of course...)

My point with Malerion is more that, in a world/game where gods are often manifest and very present in the world, having the god of shadows be noticeably absent and hidden works nicely on a thematic level.

[MitGas]

36 minutes ago, Tonhel said:

Primarchs aren’t Gods. The Emperor is a god and thus not represented in game.

And neither are these pretenders in AoS. 😤 True divinity is reserved for the best ones, like Tzeentch and his bros who also got no models! ☝️

[Tonhel]

34 minutes ago, Beliman said:

100% this. Completely agree, but what I was trying to say is just reduce their powerlevel. Instead of 700+points, reduce all of them to 450-500p, and make other non-godlike creatures the same level (mega-gargants, big monsters, even big warmachines like Ironclad).

The feeling that the gods are not at their peak, that you normal joe can kill them with luck and maybe a nuclear bomb, that's what it matters.

No, that I find even a worse idea, as it devalutes them. If they have to be in game, they should be powerful as they are gods afterall.

Personally I would prefer that GW would integrate more heralds, champions, chosen ones of the gods in AoS.  Don't get me wrong, I like Tyrion and Malekith and etc.. but I will prefer them more if they ever make an appereance in TOW, when they were not gods. Than them being introduced as mini's in AoS representing gods.

If there is ever a Tyrion and Malerion release, than I hope they will send their champions to lead their armies on the battlefield instead of giving them mini's.

The concept of Primarchs is something totally different than the beings Teclis and Tyrion and etc became in AoS.

 

 

[MitGas]

26 minutes ago, Kronos said:

Variety really is the spice of life. What draws me more to AoS is specifically that there are gods (small G) leading armies. Teclis, Tyrion, Nagash, bring them all, Chaos Gods though? No That’s where I draw a line, But I think that’s because they’re more of an EldritchEvil unable to manifest other than as Daemons. Where Teclis is very very powerful, albeit killable being. 
 

I suppose I see it almost as the difference of Valar and Maiar. I want more “Maiar” in game, for everyone. 

Horus Ascended matches him in power though no? So it is feasible surely? (Just how strong was that Ork Warboss to get hold of him 😂)
 

 

Horus never matched the God-Emperor, he was just strong enough to be able to damage him. The God-Emperor simply held back (he could‘ve obliterated Horus at will), feeling like a father in that exact moment when he shouldn‘t, especially when he had years to not be a daft douchebag to his kids, feels pretty damn dumb. 

 

[Snarff]

8 minutes ago, Ejecutor said:

IMO it is because they don't feel like real gods, but just overturned humans while the AoS gods feel closer to proper gods, if that makes sense.

That really depends on your definition of 'proper god' is what I'm saying. Do you look at the Ancient Greek definition, which includes a bunch of minor gods, demigods and godlike mortals? Do you look at the Norse Mythological definition? The Christian one? The Muslim one? The Hindu one?

All are equally valid.

[Snarff]

2 minutes ago, Tonhel said:

No, that I find even a worse idea, as it devalutes them. If they have to be in game, they should be powerful as they are gods afterall.

Personally I would prefer that GW would integrate more heralds, champions, chosen ones of the gods in AoS.  Don't get me wrong, I like Tyrion and Malekith and etc.. but I will prefer them more if they ever make an appereance in TOW, when they were not gods. Than them being introduced as mini's in AoS representing gods.

If there is ever a Tyrion and Malerion release, than I hope they will send their champions to lead their armies on the battlefield instead of giving them mini's.

The concept of Primarchs is something totally different than the beings Teclis and Tyrion and etc became in AoS.

 

 

So youre fine with beings on the same power levels as the gods, just not with them being called gods?

[Twisted Firaun]

6 minutes ago, Snarff said:

So youre fine with beings on the same power levels as the gods, just not with them being called gods?

Isn’t that just a demigod at that point? 

[Tonhel]

10 minutes ago, Snarff said:

So youre fine with beings on the same power levels as the gods, just not with them being called gods?

Lol, kind of. 😄 The problem I have is that for i.e Lumineth there is nothing more than Teclis. He is the god.

So I would have loved it that Teclis is as he is now, although with a slightly cooler sculpt 😉, but that there is something more than Teclis for the Lumineth. That Teclis is the herald of another greater being that cares about the aelves, even when Teclis did create the Lumineth.

I don't have a problem with such powerful characters in game, as I like hero centric games, but that for Lumineth there is something more than Teclis.

While for Chaos, they have Archaon or Belakor, but these are still just pawns in the end. Even Archaon.

Edited 20 hours ago by Tonhel

[Vasshpit]

45 minutes ago, Kronos said:

(Just how strong was that Ork Warboss to get hold of him 😂)
 

Have a like because of this. 😉✊️💚

[MitGas]

17 minutes ago, Snarff said:

That really depends on your definition of 'proper god' is what I'm saying. Do you look at the Ancient Greek definition, which includes a bunch of minor gods, demigods and godlike mortals? Do you look at the Norse Mythological definition? The Christian one? The Muslim one? The Hindu one?

All are equally valid.

Proper gods = Chaos gods. They can change things at will, I doubt a clown like Teclis can do that! 😤

[MitGas]

And yes, I manage to put godhood-elitism into this hobby! 😎🙌

[ScionOfOssia]

34 minutes ago, MitGas said:

Horus never matched the God-Emperor, he was just strong enough to be able to damage him.

As of TEATD 3, Ascended Horus was beating the Emperor like a rented mule and literally had to throw the fight in order to actually be defeated.