The Rumour Thread

[Hollow]

Great post @Sception 

I also liked this little snippet from the SBGL Battletome and would like to see it explored somehow. 

 

I'd also be ok with OBR getting minimal kit support this edition if they are to be the primary antagonist of 5th. They are in a solid position as a faction (In terms of both kits and rules) with lots of potential for new kits and updates (New Arkhan would be awesome) 

 

[Ejecutor]

The problem is from where this 5th edition antagonist idea comes from. It is purely based on this sentiment of them being neglected, but as @Sception rightly said, the Death faction in the worst shape is FEC.

I don't think OBR will be the next antagonist nor that Death will be the next antagonist overall, unless they get a new army, which IMO is very unlikely.

[Hollow]

50 minutes ago, Ejecutor said:

It is purely based on this sentiment of them being neglected

That isn't my thinking at all, I don't feel like Death has been neglected in any way. It's purely...

• AoS 1 - Chaos
• AoS 2 - Death
• AoS 3 - Destruction
• AoS 4 - Chaos
• AoS 5 - Death?
• AoS 6 - Destruction?? 

I wouldn't say it is fair to say that any GA has been "neglected" because they haven't. Certain factions, however... 

Edited 16 hours ago by Hollow

[Sception]

People think death will be in the next starter box due to past starter boxes featuring chaos then death then destruction then chaos.  Of course, that's not nearly enough to claim a pattern of any kind, but I do think they'll only keep Nagash on the sidelines for so long.  When and if he does come back that would be a big enough deal to launch a new edition around, and the OBR are the Death Faction most closely tied to Nagash these days so they'd make sense in that case.

That's 100% speculation and wish listing though.  And even if it did happen, It wouldn't necessarily be in 5th.

I mostly mention it as the reason I wouldn't be too concerned if OBR didn't see much of a release wave in 4th.

 

As for factions that need model range attention more than OBR, there's also a bunch outside of death.  Ogres, obviously.  Both dwarf armies, of course.  DoK & Idoneth, arguably.  Probably Slaanesh.  Gargants.  To say nothing of entirely new factions.

[Goatforce]

48 minutes ago, Ejecutor said:

The problem is from where this 5th edition antagonist idea comes from. It is purely based on this sentiment of them being neglected, but as @Sception rightly said, the Death faction in the worst shape is FEC.

I don't think OBR will be the next antagonist nor that Death will be the next antagonist overall, unless they get a new army, which IMO is very unlikely.

Idk, I think Death being in the next starter is very likely, as it appears GW is doing a cyclical rotation of GAs, at least for now (the setting is new still and I can see GW wanting to give each GA some time in the sun untill it is more firmly established). And 40K has shown that GW likes to throw the "protagonist" allegiance under the bus when it comes to starter sets, as this always contains the line they wish to push above all others. That said it is certainly possible that we have an order vs order edition, I personally think it is unlikely though, Death and Nagash has been mostly out of the picture since the end of 2nd edition, and GW will probably want to return them in some big cataclysm or other.

I don't see why they should be ruled out, currently they do feel like they are meant for a second wave, and a starter seems perfect for it. The Skaven prove that a starter box does not need to be a new army also. OBR seem like a good matchup for the Stormcast too.

Unless the narrative seems to be building to Malarion returning (especially if Tyrion comes in the narrative series at the end of the edition), my money is firmly on Death as the next edition and OBR being the lead.

[Goatforce]

13 minutes ago, Hollow said:

That isn't my thinking at all, I don't feel like Death has been neglected in any way. It's purely...

• AoS 1 - Chaos
• AoS 2 - Death
• AoS 3 - Destruction
• AoS 4 - Chaos
• AoS 5 - Death?
• AoS 6 - Destruction?? 

I wouldn't say it is fair to say that any GA has been "neglected" because they haven't. Certain factions, however... 

That is fair overall. I think the eternal irony of the way GW does things is the GA that is pushed by GW the most is always in many ways the most neglected. All imperium armies (outside of SMs of course) in 40K play second fiddle to SMs and will for eternity, they will never get a starter box or a leading role; similarly DoK, Seraphon, IDK, etc will probably always be in SCE's shadow - though since the SCE are not nearly so titanic in their game system there is more of a chance for other Order armies I guess, though it is slim.

[Hollow]

With the Ruination chamber being explored in 4th edition (Leaving the Covenant and Logister chambers unopened) I think an SCE -Covenant Chamber Vrs OBR 5th edition could be a very cool thematic set. 

Covenant - A covenant in the ancient world was similar to what we would call a contract, treaty, or will in the modern world. Each covenant established the basis of a relationship, conditions for that relationship, promises and conditions of the relationship and consequences if those conditions were unmet.

Within the gospel, a covenant means a sacred agreement or mutual promise between God and a person or a group of people. In making a covenant, God promises a blessing for obedience to particular commandments. He sets the terms of His covenants, and He reveals these terms to His prophets.

With the whole "Sigmar lied" tagline for 4th, the Covenant Chamber could be his Covenant to the SCE, a promise of some redemption or escape from the automaton-like fate awaiting SCE who lose a piece of themselves with each death. It could tie in with Grave-sand and the Black Soul Traps that animate the OBR and are believed to be linked to mortal lives. Perhaps recapturing those could help the SCE in recapturing their essence. 

There could be a very cool and thematic edition launch between OBR and SCE in my opinion.

All complete speculation of course. 

Edited 16 hours ago by Hollow

[Dragon-knight77]

32 minutes ago, Hollow said:

With the Ruination chamber being explored in 4th edition (Leaving the Covenant and Logister chambers unopened) I think an SCE -Covenant Chamber Vrs OBR 5th edition could be a very cool thematic set. 

Covenant - A covenant in the ancient world was similar to what we would call a contract, treaty, or will in the modern world. Each covenant established the basis of a relationship, conditions for that relationship, promises and conditions of the relationship and consequences if those conditions were unmet.

Within the gospel, a covenant means a sacred agreement or mutual promise between God and a person or a group of people. In making a covenant, God promises a blessing for obedience to particular commandments. He sets the terms of His covenants, and He reveals these terms to His prophets.

With the whole "Sigmar lied" tagline for 4th, the Covenant Chamber could be his Covenant to the SCE, a promise of some redemption or escape from the automaton-like fate awaiting SCE who lose a piece of themselves with each death. It could tie in with Grave-sand and the Black Soul Traps that animate the OBR and are believed to be linked to mortal lives. Perhaps recapturing those could help the SCE in recapturing their essence. 

There could be a very cool and thematic edition launch between OBR and SCE in my opinion.

All complete speculation of course. 

That sound cool

I assume it be more Vanguard dual-bulk much like how Warrior was for 4 edition of the refresh with new hunter raptors, palladors & new assassins in the similar design to the Underworld team

Would like the Covenant Chamber be more "sanguinary guard" of stormcast being more of Yndrasta-esq design. Basically taking the Prosecutors and expand on 

Turning the whole Angel aesthetic to the 11 maybe even bring back the Knight Venetor but now wielding a ballista

throw in a new Star drake to remove the Extremis chamber without completely clearing it 

but this just wishlisting

[TechnoVampire]

4 hours ago, Sception said:

I'm also hoping for more than just a pity hero for OBR this edition, but I'm not sure it's fair to call the faction 'neglected' in any way.  Their launch release in late 2e was one of the most complete and most impressive for a brand new AoS faction, really only outdone by the Lumineth, who are an outlier far removed from the norm in terms of how favored they've been by the GW studio.

Yes, OBR only received a single infantry hero in 3e, if you don't count box game releases, but that's not really outside the norm at all.  If they get the same treatment in 4e then we might have some room to start complaining.  Maybe.

As for comparison to other Death factions...

Soulblight got a big push in their late 2e revamp, but most of that was replacing old models, and the overall release wave was about the same size as OBR got - if you don't count the glut of named infantry vamps, limited release models, & box game stuff.  And in 3e, again ignoring box games, soulblight got... 2 infantry heroes.  Twice what OBR got, but hardly enough to complain about favoritism.  They've got a lot of kits, but far too many of them are still whfb holdovers, and some of the gaps in their product range (in particular cavalry vampire lord) are at least as glaring as anything you might say OBR lacks.

Nighthaunt got a big push at the start of 2e, but suffered from wonky box size issues that are honestly still a problem.  Since then they've gotten, what, crossboos, the drowner, and the scriptor mortis?  Not bad, honestly.  A unit and two heroes, one of which is cool and big and mounted, much better than pity hero only.  Nighthaunt have probably seen the best product support out of any of the undead factions in AoS, but still not enough to complain about favoritism, especially with how little attention the narrative has given to the Nighthaunt since the end of 2e.  And they're still stuck with a handful of WHFB models that really need to be updated.

FEC... were the poster child for lack of support until late 3rd edition.  I don't think any other faction were so bad off as to have GW pretending that a unit champ painted different could count as a hero... three times over.  Yes they just had a fantastic glow up... but even now there are leftover WHFB models that don't really look up to par, and they're /still/ relying on 'paint the unit champ different' for two of their courtier heroes, and outside of heroes they still have fewer units to work with than OBR.  So despite the recent very impressive release wave, I think it would still be reasonable to argue that FEC are the most neglected undead faction in AoS.

....

Anyway, overall I also very much hope for a slightly more substantial OBR release in 4e, but if we get another minimal release only to end up the starter box antagonists of 5e as many have speculated then I don't think we could complain about that at all.

Honestly, what I most want to see out of Death factions in 4e isn't product line development, but Narrative development.  GW will only be able to resist bringing Nagash back for so long.  If Death are the big players again in 5e I expect Nagash's return will be part of that.  Which means the writers really only have this edition remaining to take advantage of the opportunity Nagash's absence provided to flesh out the mortarchs, their individual personalities and personal motivations and ambitions, and what they're capable of when Nagash doesn't have his boney hands on their leash.

Mannfred and Neferata have been at war with each other since the end of 2nd edition, but we've gotten to see very little of it.  I want the 4e Soulblight tome to give me details of that conflict, territories gained and lost, how the lesser dynasties have responded - which have thrown their lot in on one side or the other, which have stayed out of it, and what have the costs of that neutrality been?

What does Olynder want?  Who is she and what does she do when Nagash isn't giving her orders?  What became of her alliance with Be'Lakor?  Her background and origin are fantastic, but it's frustrating how much of a blank state she still is in the modern setting.

In Dawnbringers we got to see Ushoran take advantage of the Ghyran crusade to escape from Neferata's control and the OBR's containment.  So what does he do with his newfound freedom?  Where does the kingsblood plot thread go?  Will he pick a side in the Soulblight civil war?  Now that FEC finally have a strong personality to drive their presence in the overall narrative, I want to see the writers actually take that and DO something with it.

As for OBR... they're so closely tied to Nagash that I'm content with them maintaining more or less a holding pattern until he returns, but I do want to see how exactly they're responding to the new Skaven threat, and whether or not they're able to maintain their foothold in the Eight Points.

 

 

Good overview! I do sometimes wonder why people tend to think that SBGL get spoiled for releases, when in reality since their initial release (I consider the big 2e wave to be their genesis as a coherent faction, consisting of mainly of updated death models) they’ve seen a fair bit of ancillary attention through the side games, but not much else. 

Personally I find the warband releases to be a bit of a distraction and rarely something to get excited about as I don’t play the games, and find that the releases rarely support the main game in a meaningful/ reliable way, but I’m aware many others feel differently.

(However I am also aware that there are too many factions that are still desperately under supported by comparison). 

Edited 14 hours ago by TechnoVampire

[Ejecutor]

6 hours ago, Hollow said:

That isn't my thinking at all, I don't feel like Death has been neglected in any way. It's purely...

• AoS 1 - Chaos
• AoS 2 - Death
• AoS 3 - Destruction
• AoS 4 - Chaos
• AoS 5 - Death?
• AoS 6 - Destruction?? 

I wouldn't say it is fair to say that any GA has been "neglected" because they haven't. Certain factions, however... 

With them I mean OBR, as they are always the rumoured antagonist for 5th.

Also, te pattern could also be Order > Death > Destro > Chaos.

[Ejecutor]

5 hours ago, Dragon-knight77 said:

That sound cool

I assume it be more Vanguard dual-bulk much like how Warrior was for 4 edition of the refresh with new hunter raptors, palladors & new assassins in the similar design to the Underworld team

Would like the Covenant Chamber be more "sanguinary guard" of stormcast being more of Yndrasta-esq design. Basically taking the Prosecutors and expand on 

Turning the whole Angel aesthetic to the 11 maybe even bring back the Knight Venetor but now wielding a ballista

throw in a new Star drake to remove the Extremis chamber without completely clearing it 

but this just wishlisting

I think the Vanguard chamber holds better than the Extremis one, so if one of them will be refreshed next edition will be Extremis.

[Ogregut]

50 minutes ago, Ejecutor said:

With them I mean OBR, as they are always the rumoured antagonist for 5th.

Also, te pattern could also be Order > Death > Destro > Chaos.

There are no rumours for who the antagonists will be for 5th, just assumptions. 

Not sure I understand where you get order from in the pattern as they have never been the antagonists. If the pattern holds, it will be order vs death for 5th.

 

Edited 9 hours ago by Ogregut

[Ejecutor]

4 minutes ago, Ogregut said:

There are no rumours for who the antagonists will be for 5th, just assumptions. 

Not sure I understand where you get order from in the pattern as they have never been the antagonists. If the pattern holds, it will be order vs death for 5th.

 

Well, there have been "rumours". That kind of rumours that come from 4chan, but yeah, it is mainly assumptions based on the sentiment that OBR has been neglected since that launched.

As per the pattern, it is all a hypothesis and still needs to be confirmed, but there are currently two routes:

The first one and the most accepted one is the antagonist one, which would be Chaos > Death > Destro > Chaos.

The second one would be about which GA gets the lead at the beginning of the narrative, in which case it would be Order > Death > Destro > Chaos, and could be met if we have Malerion in the next starter box.

[The Lost Sigmarite]

10 hours ago, Sception said:

Anyway, overall I also very much hope for a slightly more substantial OBR release in 4e, but if we get another minimal release only to end up the starter box antagonists of 5e as many have speculated then I don't think we could complain about that at all.

OBR would make a great starter box antagonist, for the same reasons Necrons made a great starter box antagonist in 9th edition.

• They're very straightforward to comprehend : you see an Ossiarch, you see a heavily armoured skeleton with a skull face. You instantly get this miniature is evil, and that he's a threat to the "good guys".
• They're very straightforward to paint : if you're a beginner, you only need 4 paints to paint an OBR : bone, another shade of bone for the trims, nadirite, cloth. To the simplest level, that's it, you're done. And the way the Ossiarchs are designed, with their segmented plates on their bodies and armor, you know exactly which part needs to be painted each colour. And finally, the angular design means drybrushing is very easy to do.
• They make a very nice counterpart to the SCE as the elite, organised, and heavily armored soldiers of their respective gods.
• OBR gameplay is very straightforward (if they don't change relentless discipline too much), and they can play a lot of playstyles : infantry horde, cavalry, monsters, herohammer with Mortisans, shooting with crawlers, and combining a bit of both.
• As an "elite" army (as far as Death goes...) you can get to 1000 pts quickly without buying tons of boxes.

We still need confirmation from our rumourmongers that indeed Death is coming for AoS5 (even if we've barely started AoS4... TGA can't help but look at the future), but if we're basing ourselves only on deductions, OBR is the safest bet.

[Tonhel]

I do hope that OBR will get a substantial release during 4th instead of wishlisting what could happen during 5th. As mentioned numerous times there are a couple of armies that really need some attention miniature wise during 4th and the sooner the better.

[PraetorDragoon]

This is making me want to have Skaven again for a 5e starter, just to ruin all the pattern predictions.

[pnkdth]

31 minutes ago, PraetorDragoon said:

This is making me want to have Skaven again for a 5e starter, just to ruin all the pattern predictions.

Skaven VS Skaven. Peak warhammer achieved.

[PraetorDragoon]

27 minutes ago, pnkdth said:

Skaven VS Skaven. Peak warhammer achieved.

Backstabbing simulator?

[MitGas]

skaven vs. Skaven? I‘d take that over SCE again and again and again… I‘d love to know how much better SCE sell - cause it would be cooler to have some CoS (maybe with a unit of SCE in them)  in a starter for example. Just to mix it up a little.

 

I really hope that some armies finally get a second wave like Ironjawz or Sylvaneth did - especially mine! 😂 Tzeentch mortals need to be expanded upon, else I got very little to buy. 
 

 

[Aeryenn]

There are a lot of elf fans out there. Can't say elves were neglected considering DoK, Idoneth, LRL and Sylvaneth getting steady releases (actually maybe except for DoK and ID) but there is definitely place for a grand Dark Elves comeback (which would make sense why DoK hasn't been really supported with models over the years). Box SCE vs. Malerion is my bet.

Edited 6 hours ago by Aeryenn

[PraetorDragoon]

DoK has received two dual-build kits, 3 heroes, Morathi, 1 warcry warband, and three underworlds warbands over the age of sigmar release as well as a battletome each edition, as well as a focus book in both the broken realms and dawnbringers campaigns. That is a decent level of model support. 

(By comparision, FEC got Ushoran, 6 heroes, and 2 units in their recent "big" wave.) 

[pnkdth]

1 hour ago, PraetorDragoon said:

Backstabbing simulator?

Narrative campaign and Skaven wins. Next, 5th edition release and AoS rebranded as Age of the Horned Rat. Every faction except Skaven put into legends. Yes-yes.

 

[The Lost Sigmarite]

Sylvaneth are more than elves though... So far, we've seen mostly forest spirits looking like elves. 

I'm gonna do a @Sception and argument why, to me, the most neglected elf faction is DOK. Because at the end of the day, half their kits are WFB leftovers, very good leftovers that I think absolutely rule, but still, it made their integration to AoS less impactful than when IDK released. I remember their release and the hype was through the roof, it was to me, one of the sickest releases GW has ever done. Even if they haven't gotten much since, just like OBR, their core range that released in AoS1 is very complete and impressive and gives them the means to do well in the current AoS. 

DoK, meanwhile, haven't had that luxury. That is why I think a "grand Dark Elf comeback" with Malerion and his elves would do great for them.

[Lucentia]

In terms of actual model support, DoK are mostly coasting off of their initial AoS 1 release, which was realistically only three kits all told, with most of the rest of their stuff being the typical solo hero sprues and an outsized representation in Underworlds teams.  That said, they do quite often pop up as relatively big players in narrative events, and were one of the last factions to receive new endless spells if I recall, so they're not exactly under-served either.

A big chunk of their range is still WHFB kits though, I don't think it would be out of the question to see the eventual removal of the Cauldron of Blood and its variant builds (potentially something that could be replaced in theming with a terrain piece, I suppose, or with the underworlds Bladecoven taking the place of the infantry Priest option.)  For my money it depends on whether they're intending to expand the Morai-Heg/Krethusa stuff into actual models, or if it will just remain a narrative option with a unique hero model, I suspect the alternative is the often spitballed DoK/Malerion dark elf blender.

[Matrindur]

If OBR are one of the 5th edition launch factions and its against Stormcast again (And there is no reason to think it wouldn't be) I wonder what models they would get.

Normally launch boxes are a horde faction vs a elite faction. As long as Stormcast are in, they will likely always be the elite half so OBR would take up the horde mantle. Then normally you get 20-40 of the most basic unit the army has in the set (Bloodreavers, Chainrasps, Hobgrots for AoS or Poxwalkers, Necron Warriors, Termagants for 40k) but Mortek Guard are surely not going to be replaced so it would need to be a new unit either comparable to them or lower on the ranks. 
For comparable units I think another melee unit would be too close to Mortek Guard and a ranged unit doesn't really fit the design space for that launch box slot.
And while there is design space for a lower ranked unit (something like the Teratic Prowlers from the Warcry kit) I also don't think that fits the 20-40 models in the box slot.

Of course they could just invert the expectations and make the OBR in the box hyper-elite so the Stormcast act as the "horde" side or they simply ignore the thoughts I wrote above. But its not a clear choice like Clanrats were for Skaven for example

Edited 5 hours ago by Matrindur