pixieproxy Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 (edited) Also, it hasn't been mentioned in this thread I think but the Unquiet Dead allegiance ability lets you set up summonable units on objectives turn 1 >.> Edited May 13, 2021 by pixieproxy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raptor_Jesues Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 14 minutes ago, BaylorCorvette said: Wow, some of y'all think our book is like Beast of Chaos. I pretty much only play in tournaments and can tell you right now that this book has some play. Yes certain things got nerfted but other things got buffed. Soulblight Gravelords isn't S Tier, probably fat middle which is completely OK and I'm find with that. I get the desire to want to play Soulblight Gravelords like the old LoN book of just drowning your opponent in models that keep coming back, but honestly (in my opinion) that was a super boring way to play. Before you claim this is a trash book and isn't competitive just wait to play it. I personally have a game lined up with a buddy early next week now that we have the rules leaked I can play Gravelords, then the second Saturday in June I'll be taking Gravelords to a tournament. As of right now and having seen like 90% of the book, I am confident that this book can win and do decently well in tournaments, but it is going to take work to do so which is what I prefer. Also, one last closing thought. Based on a lot of the rules and way things are written it is obvious that there are some things that are going to change in 3.0. i ran out of reactions so i wish to say that i compleatly agree with you and i wish to be your squire. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Arthur Hotep Posted May 13, 2021 Author Share Posted May 13, 2021 42 minutes ago, Aren73 said: And another positive (I'm on a roll here ) Vengorian Lords and Lauka are good. I was worried they wouldn't be, but they are. The rend worsening aura is great, the damage output for their points is good, they have interesting abilities and spells. I'm tempted to run two, or one of each! Most of our big heroes seem good, actually. That's an area where we have nothing to complain about, at least. It's just the small heroes who all seem kinda bad. I'm especially sad that Kritza and Annika have basically nothing to offer. Just bad-for-their-points damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandzak-Miniatures Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 Well it looks like barrow kings will have to wait till there’s a proper inclusion of classic ethereals and black coach. C’mon white dwarf article! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 adjusting points on my previously posted mannfred list: 380 - manny 130 - mounted wight king 125 - necro 80 - corpse cart w/ lodestone 155 - 3 vargheists 120 - 5 black knights 120 - 5 black knights 230 - 40 zombies 255 - 30 skeletons 305 - Terrorgheist 40 - Balewind Vortex 1940. 60 points left over now, though the list loses 30 models to the reduced unit caps on skeletons and zombies. changes to black knights and mounted wight king make them pretty underwhelming, & I'm considering dropping them, though I might not anyway as the mounted wight king is ~such~ a nice model. Still, if I dropped them for a single unit of blood knights, that would free up 175 points, enough to grab a vampire lord to run with the skittles & trade the balewind for a chaff unit of fell bats. or I could ditch the black knights, forget the blood knights, keep the wight king, and trade the skeletons for grave guard? Eh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raptor_Jesues Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 8 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said: Most of our big heroes seem good, actually. That's an area where we have nothing to complain about, at least. It's just the small heroes who all seem kinda bad. I'm especially sad that Kritza and Annika have basically nothing to offer. Just bad-for-their-points damage. except the palanquin, that straight sucks (eh eh) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Arthur Hotep Posted May 13, 2021 Author Share Posted May 13, 2021 24 minutes ago, BaylorCorvette said: I get the desire to want to play Soulblight Gravelords like the old LoN book of just drowning your opponent in models that keep coming back, but honestly (in my opinion) that was a super boring way to play. I especially agree with this part. There are a few things that were nerfed in this book that I never the less view as positive developments as far as the design of AoS goes. Since they decided to keep grave sites, whole unit resurrection for a command point just had to go. That is an ability that is just so strong that it completely choked out the available design space in the rest of the book. I also don't feel bad at all about wholly within Deathless Minions, that just brings the book in line with everything else in AoS. The only thing that I don't quite understand is the nerf to Deathly Invocation. Without reliable resurrection on top of it, I think it would have been fine to have summonable units benefit from it multiple times. Although skeletons supposedly get healing on their warscroll now, and the build process of this book seems to deemphasize summonable units as a whole, which is not necessarily bad, either. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaylorCorvette Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 7 minutes ago, Raptor_Jesues said: i ran out of reactions so i wish to say that i compleatly agree with you and i wish to be your squire. We ride! Just to give y'all a little more background of where my mentality is coming from, I pretty much only played Legion of Blood and Blades of Khorne for the last two years (since I started playing AoS). At start of COVID I made a Vampire themed Khorne Army using a lot of Slaves to Darkness models, it was what I called "my fluffy competitive list." People routinely said the units I had and how I built it while cool, wasn't super competitive. Coming out of lockdown I did a two day tournament a couple months ago and finished 6th overall and just missed out on top Chaos Faction. Last weekend I did a one day tournament and went 3-0 with the same list, one of the opponents was Change Host which I beat. Vince Venturella (warhammerweekly) had a really good video several weeks ago with a lot of nice stats, it basically showed that a good player can take just about any book and be good with it. The point I'm trying to make here is even if we don't have the Lumineth, KO, Tzeentch or DoK book doesn't mean we cannot be competitive. It just means we have to work harder and smarter, know what your list is good at and what it isn't good at, etc. I MUCH rather take a fat middle book and surprise people with it then take an S Tier book and then to no surprise play good with that. Everyone. Take. A. Breath. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boar Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 14 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said: I'm especially sad that Kritza and Annika have basically nothing to offer. Just bad-for-their-points damage. Huh, 4 atk at d3 dmg seems pretty standard in 95-110 heroes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Arthur Hotep Posted May 13, 2021 Author Share Posted May 13, 2021 1 minute ago, Boar said: Huh, 4 atk at d3 dmg seems pretty standard in 95-110 heroes? Sure, but a single, small, slow damage dealing hero is just worse than 10 models of battleline. At least from my point of view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Arthur Hotep Posted May 13, 2021 Author Share Posted May 13, 2021 9 minutes ago, Raptor_Jesues said: except the palanquin, that straight sucks (eh eh) Nobody knows what a bloodseeker palanquin looks like anyway, just pretend it's a coven throne 😉 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightseer2012 Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 21 minutes ago, Sartxac said: You need the spell of Vengorian Lord and the CA of Lauka Vai and only vs one enemy unit within 12". Yea, but it is 3 models. As a monster ball of one Monster and 2 Medium Monsters, they will be traveling together anyhow, I kind of assumed they would slam into one unit at a time anyway. A Zombie/Terrorgheist throws in some wounds early with ranged, get some charge MW of of Lauka Val, the Vengorian can heal any of the three of them once they chew through a unit. They Lauka Val still gets spells off the Lore of Vampires, and while they are 100% lesser versions of our last spells, they are also notably easier to cast by about 2 each. So you can use her to keep you from being counter charged with Death's Downpour or Soulpike, you can add on MW with a few other spells, give her an additional heal beyond Hunger with Vile Transference, which only needs a 4 now and will probably heal you 1-2 a cast (more if your in a mob). And hell, remember that both Lauka and the Vengorian Lord are both monsters, and benefit from the +1 Hit and Wound as well. Yea, they don't buff your whole army, but you take them as a giant distraction carnifex that can actually reasonably do some damage while the rest of your army plays the objective game. Just a self-sustaining murder missile. Yea, countered by shooting, but hell, everything is countered by shooting this edition, so that isn't exactly something new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cataphract Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 I like the Avengorii personally. Can’t wait to play with a Monster Ball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakithe Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 3 hours ago, Raptor_Jesues said: that is surely one of the possible lists that popped in my mind but i REALLY want to run two vengorian lords so i feel pretty torn. How do you feel about the vamptaur? Im not sure about Vamptaur. Im still set in the old ways with the VLoZD as its a very solid unit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeralMulan Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 Just now, Cataphract said: I like the Avengorii personally. Can’t wait to play with a Monster Ball I honestly think the Monster Mash might be the sleeper hit. A Free "Act on Top Profile" each turn can be clutch. -1 to wound should keep them healthy for longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightseer2012 Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 Just now, Malakithe said: Im not sure about Vamptaur. Im still set in the old ways with the VLoZD as its a very solid unit But what about... VLoZD buffed BY the Vamptaur? lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 (edited) neferata article is up. No real hints on positive changes to her warscroll, though. The only previewed bit for her is her spell, which is a significantly weaker version of the same - no longer lets the target unit fly - just negates save penalties, much shorter range - wholly within 12" instead of within 18". Same casting value. Still a decent option if they make nef good in her own right. Edited May 13, 2021 by Sception 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boar Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 7 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said: Sure, but a single, small, slow damage dealing hero is just worse than 10 models of battleline. At least from my point of view. It made me look at their warscrolls. Kritza has funny ability that if he is slain at end of movement phase he is re-setup on 4+ 9" away from enemy. It's not restricted to one res either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lich King Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 Warcom article is up - Deathrattle have amazing play in this game . Also - why Is there art of Morghasts alongside Neferata? I swear I feel like those will be faq’d in as they should ( they are deathlords) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 I want to hold off on skeletons being good before getting hype for deathrattle. Black knights are not good. Grave guard could be good, but you need to field a wight king to make them battleline, and wight kings aren't good. If skeletons are decent in their own right, then you might have something going with a mix of skittles & grave guard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakithe Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 28 minutes ago, Sception said: adjusting points on my previously posted mannfred list: 380 - manny 130 - mounted wight king 125 - necro 80 - corpse cart w/ lodestone 155 - 3 vargheists 120 - 5 black knights 120 - 5 black knights 230 - 40 zombies 255 - 30 skeletons 305 - Terrorgheist 40 - Balewind Vortex 1940. 60 points left over now, though the list loses 30 models to the reduced unit caps on skeletons and zombies. changes to black knights and mounted wight king make them pretty underwhelming, & I'm considering dropping them, though I might not anyway as the mounted wight king is ~such~ a nice model. Still, if I dropped them for a single unit of blood knights, that would free up 175 points, enough to grab a vampire lord to run with the skittles & trade the balewind for a chaff unit of fell bats. or I could ditch the black knights, forget the blood knights, keep the wight king, and trade the skeletons for grave guard? Eh. I think if im doing a Manny list im going to load up on Vargheists. And probably 3x20 skellies for screening and board presence. Vargheists deepstriking everywhere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erdemo86 Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 Radukar looks pretty good for me, 325 points but a free summoning of 135 points. So 190 points for him looks pretty good. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaylorCorvette Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 5 minutes ago, Boar said: It made me look at their warscrolls. Kritza has funny ability that if he is slain at end of movement phase he is re-setup on 4+ 9" away from enemy. It's not restricted to one res either. It is similar to Skarr Bloodwraths ability from Blades of Khorne. Kinda cool and I like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Malakithe said: I think if im doing a Manny list im going to load up on Vargheists. why? he doens't make them stronger, doens't help them make those long charges out of reserve. And their deep strike ability is semi-redundant with LoNight's outflanking gimmick. If the 3e rules specifically buff battleline, say with strong generic battalions specific to battleline, then sure. But in the mean time, apart from maybe meeting BL requirements if you're running less than 3 units of skeletons or zombies, I'm not sure what the synergy between manny and vargheists is exactly. Edited May 13, 2021 by Sception Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erdemo86 Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 What do you think about something like that: KASTELEI Prince V Radukar Vengorian Lord 4x 5 Bloodknights Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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