Lucky Snake Eyes Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 2 minutes ago, JackStreicher said: What I'd like to have in this army is: All Vampires get the Ability of the Kastelei (getting better by killing enemies). Vampire Lords on foot need 6-7 wounds and 6 attacks to actually be worth anything. Wight Kings should grant a simple run and charge for deathrattle units - They are their kings and they do nothing! Give Black Knights the lances back. There was no reason to change them for a worse ability. Rethink Legion of Night and Legion of Blood - the whole army already has more than enough deepstrike/put into reserve abilities. Legion of Blood is supposed to be sneaky or at least grant a good buff to Deathratte. Complete Rewrite of the Vampire Lore or switch it with the Deathmages lore. Split the CC units into smaller increments: Vargskyr and Vyrkos, Gravekeeper, Gravekeeper and Night Guard, Chamberlain and radukar. Done. Give us dead vermin as a swarm encompassing bats and rats. If all of this was corrected this army would be completely amazing: Interesting, not too strong, synergies, you can play with your toys without being punished for it. While i'd like to see all vampires get something for getting kills, what would you give kasteli themn to replace their rule being lifted army wide? As for vampire lords, how many 140pt heroes do you know have 4 d3 damage attacks, a +1 attack CA, heals on kill with a 3+ save, fly and is a wizard? 7 wounds with 6 attacks is making vamps on par with sigvalds average performance and he's 260pts. Legion of night keeping reserves rule is weird i agree there since vargheists get a deeps strike built in and are their battleline. Maybe a rule that gives retreat and charge if there's a deathrattle or deadwalker unit engaged with the same enemy unit as the retreating unit? I like legion of blood tho, with bravery debuffing being army wide now instead increasing how many units flee is nice. Making deathrattle ignore negative modifiers can also be big, armies like lumineth can eat their heart out with that one. Black knights and wight kings are a big disappointment, welcome to the same club as slaangor hopefuls i suppose. I don't mind the spell lore changes, sure spells got nerfed but some also got more reliable like amaranthine orb. vile transference is weird but could be a big heal for a vlozd or nagash stuck in with archaon or a horde. CC units are a joke, we can all agree GW dropped the ball hard with it. I could maybe see korsargi, vargskyr and blood borne getting a solo release but i'm not so sure on swarms or the characters, it's less reasonable to see them flying solo from a lore perspective. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raptor_Jesues Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 (edited) 1 minute ago, Gothmaug said: So... Did I miss something? Is there a way to make a deathrattle unit fight in the hero phase (simmilar to Ironjawz Mighty Destroyers)? Because reading the Wight King's command ability, it activates in the hero phase and lasts until the end of that phase only, making it useless under the current rules. SO I guess its a typo OR its referencing a new game mechanic from upcoming third edition? 99% typo, it was probably meant to be used in the combat phase Edited May 13, 2021 by Raptor_Jesues Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky Snake Eyes Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 1 minute ago, Gothmaug said: So... Did I miss something? Is there a way to make a deathrattle unit fight in the hero phase (simmilar to Ironjawz Mighty Destroyers)? Because reading the Wight King's command ability, it activates in the hero phase and lasts until the end of that phase only, making it useless under the current rules. SO I guess its a typo OR its referencing a new game mechanic from upcoming third edition? probably just a typo that slipped past GWs mediocre quality control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gothmaug Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 1 minute ago, Raptor_Jesues said: 99% typo, it was probably meant to be used in the combat phase true...but then its no different than the standard game-wide command ability that lets a unit reroll 1's. Unless that generic command ability is going away in 3rd edition, then the wight kings command ability would be quite useful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Arthur Hotep Posted May 13, 2021 Author Share Posted May 13, 2021 5 minutes ago, Gothmaug said: So... Did I miss something? Is there a way to make a deathrattle unit fight in the hero phase (simmilar to Ironjawz Mighty Destroyers)? Because reading the Wight King's command ability, it activates in the hero phase and lasts until the end of that phase only, making it useless under the current rules. SO I guess its a typo OR its referencing a new game mechanic from upcoming third edition? Soulblight Janklords 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Arthur Hotep Posted May 13, 2021 Author Share Posted May 13, 2021 5 minutes ago, Gothmaug said: So... Did I miss something? Is there a way to make a deathrattle unit fight in the hero phase (simmilar to Ironjawz Mighty Destroyers)? Because reading the Wight King's command ability, it activates in the hero phase and lasts until the end of that phase only, making it useless under the current rules. SO I guess its a typo OR its referencing a new game mechanic from upcoming third edition? Soulblight Janklords Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gothmaug Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 Just now, Neil Arthur Hotep said: Soulblight Janklords Ijust noticed Prince Vhordai's command ability lets you pick a Hero and they can fight in the hero phase. I Guess he could pick a wight King AND the wight king could buff himself with reroll 1's in the hero phase. ...Its a pretty poor combo and use of resources, , but it would work 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Arthur Hotep Posted May 13, 2021 Author Share Posted May 13, 2021 2 minutes ago, Gothmaug said: Ijust noticed Prince Vhordai's command ability lets you pick a Hero and they can fight in the hero phase. I Guess he could pick a wight King AND the wight king could buff himself with reroll 1's in the hero phase. ...Its a pretty poor combo and use of resources, , but it would work Now that's a game-winning combo right there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aturox Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 (edited) Anyone noticed the rangeincrease of wight king and black knights? Buffed up it should be nearly as much output as before or am i wrong? I was also wondering about graveguard/greatswords ratio 🤔 is there a possibility for conversion? Edited May 13, 2021 by Aturox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Arthur Hotep Posted May 13, 2021 Author Share Posted May 13, 2021 10 minutes ago, Aturox said: Anyone noticed the rangeincrease of wight king and black knights? Buffed up it should be nearly as much output as before or am i wrong? They had +1 to damage on a charge before. Literally double damage. A 2" lance really can't make up for that, even in groups of 10+. Really disappointed with Black Knights. They would have been fine if they had kept their old profile, but with a 4+ save or rend -1. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raptor_Jesues Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 yeah, black knights are sad. I wish they kept the lance thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherTalarian Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 Starting to think of list building. I'm pretty hyped about the whole thing, not sure how it fairs competitively, but thankfully my meta isn't too rough (yet). I'm leaning Kastelai, becuase.... well, Blood Knights are the bomb. Vengorian Lord Vhordrai Mannfred (or Coven throne) x3 (5) BK Comes out to about 1630. Reason why I'm thinking Manny over CT, is you get +1 +1 to ALL friendly units, whereas CT only affects 1 unit. Granted, no +1 AS, but if you're running MSU I find Manny to be better. He is also a solid made and can do tricky things around the battlefield (+the model is rad) For 370 points I was thinking of adding more BK, because you can never have enough, or maybe round off with some summonable chaff to hold back objectives, and also so I can take advantage of summoning/reviving things. Maybe 20 skeles and 5 more BK, or 40 zombies and something else... who knows. What do you think? And what do you think of Manny > CT? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RocketPropelledGrenade Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 (edited) 56 minutes ago, Lucky Snake Eyes said: While i'd like to see all vampires get something for getting kills, what would you give kasteli themn to replace their rule being lifted army wide? As for vampire lords, how many 140pt heroes do you know have 4 d3 damage attacks, a +1 attack CA, heals on kill with a 3+ save, fly and is a wizard? 7 wounds with 6 attacks is making vamps on par with sigvalds average performance and he's 260pts. Legion of night keeping reserves rule is weird i agree there since vargheists get a deeps strike built in and are their battleline. Maybe a rule that gives retreat and charge if there's a deathrattle or deadwalker unit engaged with the same enemy unit as the retreating unit? I like legion of blood tho, with bravery debuffing being army wide now instead increasing how many units flee is nice. Making deathrattle ignore negative modifiers can also be big, armies like lumineth can eat their heart out with that one. Black knights and wight kings are a big disappointment, welcome to the same club as slaangor hopefuls i suppose. I don't mind the spell lore changes, sure spells got nerfed but some also got more reliable like amaranthine orb. vile transference is weird but could be a big heal for a vlozd or nagash stuck in with archaon or a horde. CC units are a joke, we can all agree GW dropped the ball hard with it. I could maybe see korsargi, vargskyr and blood borne getting a solo release but i'm not so sure on swarms or the characters, it's less reasonable to see them flying solo from a lore perspective. I would agree with most of this, positive and negative alike. However, question on Vile Transference--doesn't it still roll bupkis against a horde, since it's Wounds characteristic? Like, against a block of 40 Mortek Guard or whatever, they are still 1 Wound each. Makes it worse, but since it was already a bad enough spell that few would bother taking it, I'm not sure it makes a difference. Fortunately, the army has a decent amount of healing still. Not old LoN level, but good--the Hunger is easy d3 healing for all vampire units, both Deathly Invocation and Invigorating Aura* for Summonable units, the Endless Legions unit replacement, Zombies getting kills added and whatever skeletons end up doing. The main thing that feels missing is more healing for big models outside of the Hunger, but that may be a deliberate choice, given how durable some of those can get. We've already discussed the -1 to Wound Avengorii monster list, and the 2+ save Zombie Dragon in LoB. Coven Throne and Neferata can also buff centerpiece durability with CA/spells, and Nef has Lore of the Deathmages available as a Mortarch. So it's probably in a good spot? *Regarding Invigorating Aura: I know a lot of people seem down on this, but considering it gets a +1 to cast for each hero on the field, including the caster, I think it is more likely to get through even against caster-heavy armies than people think. Since everyone has it for free, you can load up more specialized spells and do healing on whoever doesn't have a use for their particular piece of the Swiss Army Knife this turn. Very tentative list: Legion of Blood VLoZD 435 Neferata 365 Coven Throne 310 Deathrattle Skeletons x20 170 Dire Wolves x10 135 Dire Wolves x10 135 Blood Knights x5 195 Blood Knights x5 195 Command Point 50 1980 points total VLoZD and Nef should both be able to count as generals if the other named characters are indications. Soulbound Garments are my artefact choice, still deciding if they go on the VLoZD or the Coven Throne. For Command Trait, probably the one where 6s to hit cause mortal wounds equal to damage, since I want to model my VLoZD with a sword, not a lance, and it needs the help. Edited May 13, 2021 by RocketPropelledGrenade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky Snake Eyes Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 18 minutes ago, RocketPropelledGrenade said: I The main thing that feels missing is more healing for big models outside of the Hunger, but that may be a deliberate choice, given how durable some of those can get. Vengorian lord does have a command for a d6 heal on a kill so that's d6+d3, red banqueters is also a free d3 in the hero phase for what it's worth before the edition change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RocketPropelledGrenade Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 4 minutes ago, Lucky Snake Eyes said: Vengorian lord does have a command for a d6 heal on a kill so that's d6+d3, red banqueters is also a free d3 in the hero phase for what it's worth before the edition change. Both good points! And for what its worth, I'm not dissatisfied with the healing options available, given that healing isn't even an option in some armies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkhan Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 15 bk's all day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaylorCorvette Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 Shame prince Vhordrai does not have the Vampire Lord keyword so he can be used in the Red Banqueters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beliman Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 1 minute ago, BaylorCorvette said: Shame prince Vhordrai does not have the Vampire Lord keyword so he can be used in the Red Banqueters I think that Vampire Lord is not bolded in the battalion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raptor_Jesues Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 1 minute ago, Beliman said: I think that Vampire Lord is not bolded in the battalion. true but as of faq you can ignore subtitles like "on a horse" in the warscrolls. It just happens that VLoZD has the "on zombie dragon" as a subtext and thus avaiable for the battalion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beliman Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Raptor_Jesues said: true but as of faq you can ignore subtitles like "on a horse" in the warscrolls. It just happens that VLoZD has the "on zombie dragon" as a subtext and thus avaiable for the battalion But I was talking about Vhordrai (that doens't have the keyword, see post above mine) or any other Hero that already has Vampire Lord keyword (as Radukar or the other wolf-dudes) but they are not called Vampire Lord. Edited May 13, 2021 by Beliman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raptor_Jesues Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 3 minutes ago, Beliman said: But I was talking about Vhordrai (that doens't have the keyword, see post above mine) or any other Hero that already has Vampire Lord keyword (as Radukar or the other wolf-dudes) but they are not called Vampire Lord. yes, i was just specifying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStreicher Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 20 minutes ago, Raptor_Jesues said: yes, i was just specifying Seems like an oversight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDM Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 Crimson court have only one wound each. Am i missing something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frowny Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 1 hour ago, BrotherTalarian said: Starting to think of list building. I'm pretty hyped about the whole thing, not sure how it fairs competitively, but thankfully my meta isn't too rough (yet). I'm leaning Kastelai, becuase.... well, Blood Knights are the bomb. Vengorian Lord Vhordrai Mannfred (or Coven throne) x3 (5) BK What do you think? And what do you think of Manny > CT? This sounds like an incredibly strong and powerful core. Manfred with pinions provides a ton of tactical power and you have many hard hitting units to use. I would round it out with 2x dogs, 1x zombies and maybe 1 unit of bats. What you want is cheap screens and things that can hold objectives for you. Then when they come to you to take your objectives you can guarantee yourself the charge with blood knights held slightly further back and not have sacrificed much to do so. That many blood knights might actually be too much to protect, so you might even want to drop oneore and get evenore chaff. The coven throne also does seem powerful, but hard to fit with everything else and you probably won't actually have enough co for it all. Also I'm noticing with his crazy movement and if needed, pinions, mannfred can reliably T1 charge and kill a screen for the sweet future +2 to charge, while being safe from all retaliation at least against several armies. A bit broken really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NicholasFlamelGames Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 Does anyone who speaks Spanish here want to translate the Neferata and Skeletons warscrolls for everyone? 😛 PM me and I'll send the photos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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