Rebluff Posted April 28, 2022 Share Posted April 28, 2022 23 hours ago, JackStreicher said: Seems like there‘ll be bad times ahead then I'm just worried that the combination for MorathiBowSnakes and how good DoK were for most of the lifespan of the previous book has convinced GW that DoK are still a fundamentally good army that just needs a few tweaks. This is not the case. The last battletome was an almost exact reprint of the first book, except with an across the board, numerical nerf for the melee components of the army. The transition into 3rd saw extremely aggressive point changes compared to the rest of the field. A DoK book that's expected to compete on Aelfs being largely the same as they are right now, is going to be extremely suspect. I would argue that our core Cauldron+WE+SoS+Blood Sisters+Khinerai setups from the olden days are Slaanesh level, if not worse thanks to all the nerfs we've gotten in the 4 years since our original book dropped. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chumphammer Posted April 28, 2022 Author Share Posted April 28, 2022 1 hour ago, LeviathanL said: I think if Umbraneth are planned anytime soon, the dok battletome will have them listed as allies or coalition. I saw that tease as the only reason to update their battletome so soon. While I'd love that, I'd also be happy with darkling covens as coalition option, perhaps in a har kuron subfaction. Based on the underworld band males are less discriminated against now maybe. naa they would just add it in the future FAQ's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chumphammer Posted April 29, 2022 Author Share Posted April 29, 2022 Any of you crazy kids going to Open Series Seattle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chumphammer Posted May 1, 2022 Author Share Posted May 1, 2022 1st leaks popped up, interesting mini changes to limited reinforcements and behemoths 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrispyXIV Posted May 10, 2022 Share Posted May 10, 2022 Well, today's Warhammer Community article suddenly made a 5x Avatar (2x Cauldrons, 3x Avatar) list sound pretty exciting to me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebluff Posted May 10, 2022 Share Posted May 10, 2022 (edited) 12 minutes ago, KrispyXIV said: Well, today's Warhammer Community article suddenly made a 5x Avatar (2x Cauldrons, 3x Avatar) list sound pretty exciting to me... The one unit...the ONE unit in the book I didn't want to be good. It's not even a model, it's just a chunk of the Cauldron they broke off and gave a datasheet to avoid having to make a new mold. Also, Cauldrons are behemouth's now (leaked earlier) so 4 max. Edited May 10, 2022 by Rebluff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrispyXIV Posted May 10, 2022 Share Posted May 10, 2022 5 minutes ago, Rebluff said: The one unit...the ONE unit in the book I didn't want to be good. It's not even a model, it's just a chunk of the Cauldron they broke off and gave a datasheet to avoid having to make a new mold. I have a 3D printer, lots of cool Dark Elves that can be scaled up to look good on a 40mm and painted like obsidian. Its a good day for me! I also have a stack of extra 'official' avatars from all my start collecting kits for folks that don't like 3d prints. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebluff Posted May 10, 2022 Share Posted May 10, 2022 11 minutes ago, KrispyXIV said: I have a 3D printer, lots of cool Dark Elves that can be scaled up to look good on a 40mm and painted like obsidian. Its a good day for me! I also have a stack of extra 'official' avatars from all my start collecting kits for folks that don't like 3d prints. It ebay/print small Morathi Models and cut up old avatar models to make it look like someone tore down the old Avatar Statue and built a Morathi statue on top of it. Even then i'm still very 'meh' on them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrispyXIV Posted May 10, 2022 Share Posted May 10, 2022 21 minutes ago, Rebluff said: Also, Cauldrons are behemouth's now (leaked earlier) so 4 max. I'm pretty sure I saw a larger version of the Pitched Battles Profiles entry that included Cauldrons as Behemoths that included a note for Hagg Narr that allows for an extra Cauldron that doesn't take a Behemoth slot... which would allow for 5, so long as one of them is a Cauldron. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chumphammer Posted May 10, 2022 Author Share Posted May 10, 2022 30 minutes ago, KrispyXIV said: I'm pretty sure I saw a larger version of the Pitched Battles Profiles entry that included Cauldrons as Behemoths that included a note for Hagg Narr that allows for an extra Cauldron that doesn't take a Behemoth slot... which would allow for 5, so long as one of them is a Cauldron. Yes, HaggNar gives a SQ cauldron or HQ cauldron for "free" in terms of behemoth My HaggNar list is HaggNar HagQueen on Cauldron HagQueen on Cauldron Bloodwrack Medusa Bloodwrack Medusa 10 Witch Aelves 10 Witch Aelves 10 Witch Aelves 10 Blood Sisters Avatar of Khaine Avatar of Khaine Avatar of Khaine Heart of Fury Emerald Life Swarm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chumphammer Posted May 10, 2022 Author Share Posted May 10, 2022 There is a number of key changes in the book We have a ton of diversity and options now and all subfactions will see play Haggnar 5++ is confirmed gone though We also have a ton of ways to get +1 to blood rites now so you can easily have 1 or 2 units on turn 2/3 at max rites 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrispyXIV Posted May 10, 2022 Share Posted May 10, 2022 20 minutes ago, Chumphammer said: There is a number of key changes in the book We have a ton of diversity and options now and all subfactions will see play Haggnar 5++ is confirmed gone though We also have a ton of ways to get +1 to blood rites now so you can easily have 1 or 2 units on turn 2/3 at max rites You got access to sources, or links for more information? I'm dieing to start putting together a fuller picture of things, and the trickle I've gotten so far is just frustrating I know they implied the Medusas are going to have a mechanism for +1 Blood Rites, but what is it? Avatars seem a lot better in general now, but what sort of cost increase is attached? Devoted Disciples being gone is unsurprising, but what Command Traits made the cut? Did any of the subfactions see surprising changes from their current basic trait? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chumphammer Posted May 10, 2022 Author Share Posted May 10, 2022 Just now, KrispyXIV said: You got access to sources, or links for more information? I'm dieing to start putting together a fuller picture of things, and the trickle I've gotten so far is just frustrating I know they implied the Medusas are going to have a mechanism for +1 Blood Rites, but what is it? Avatars seem a lot better in general now, but what sort of cost increase is attached? Devoted Disciples being gone is unsurprising, but what Command Traits made the cut? Did any of the subfactions see surprising changes from their current basic trait? Yes...but cant share atm. Nda lifts Sat medusa do have a mechanic to give a unit of snakes +1 (can only go on 1 unit, but 2 can put on different units) No surprises to sub factions, they all got knocked down to 1 thing really. Hagg nar is +1 to rites, Khelibron is teleport, draichi run and charge yadda yadda yadda 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tzanna Posted May 10, 2022 Share Posted May 10, 2022 The very question. Is it a fun codex? Is it limited on 1-2 lists or more? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chumphammer Posted May 10, 2022 Author Share Posted May 10, 2022 5 minutes ago, Tzanna said: The very question. Is it a fun codex? Is it limited on 1-2 lists or more? We have a load of options and lots of outside options also All sub factions have play 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebluff Posted May 10, 2022 Share Posted May 10, 2022 1 hour ago, Chumphammer said: We have a load of options and lots of outside options also All sub factions have play While I would love that to be the case, people have said that about a lot of the books GW has released and it hasn't really been true for a 6 subfaction book yet. Heck, people said that about the DoK book and Hagg Narr and Khellebron were the only ones that weren't just a straight up meme. 2 hours ago, Chumphammer said: Yes...but cant share atm. Nda lifts Sat medusa do have a mechanic to give a unit of snakes +1 (can only go on 1 unit, but 2 can put on different units) No surprises to sub factions, they all got knocked down to 1 thing really. Hagg nar is +1 to rites, Khelibron is teleport, draichi run and charge yadda yadda yadda Ooof. Not being locked into a terrible relic is nice but losing Devoted Disciples and the -1 to hit in shooting is A LOT of army-wide power that's going to need to be made up elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutton Posted May 10, 2022 Share Posted May 10, 2022 (edited) How hard was Morathi bonked? Edited May 10, 2022 by Mutton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebluff Posted May 10, 2022 Share Posted May 10, 2022 11 minutes ago, Mutton said: How hard was Morathi bonked? I really hope they focused on the CA interaction and not Morathi herself. Morathi is an awesome character, but she saw the representation she did because her CA let blood stalkers vomit out 60 shots per turn. Without that Command Ability, I personally think she'd probably be too expensive now. Let alone after some nerfs. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chumphammer Posted May 10, 2022 Author Share Posted May 10, 2022 41 minutes ago, Mutton said: How hard was Morathi bonked? not at all 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chumphammer Posted May 10, 2022 Author Share Posted May 10, 2022 28 minutes ago, Rebluff said: I really hope they focused on the CA interaction and not Morathi herself. Morathi is an awesome character, but she saw the representation she did because her CA let blood stalkers vomit out 60 shots per turn. Without that Command Ability, I personally think she'd probably be too expensive now. Let alone after some nerfs. CA stayed the same but its once a game now The faction heroic action cant be used by monster so shadow queen doesnt benefit from it 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebluff Posted May 11, 2022 Share Posted May 11, 2022 2 hours ago, Chumphammer said: CA stayed the same but its once a game now The faction heroic action cant be used by monster so shadow queen doesnt benefit from it Is the faction heroic action good? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eternalis Posted May 11, 2022 Share Posted May 11, 2022 (edited) 14 hours ago, Chumphammer said: draichi run and charge But ?... The "core" units of this temple already run and charge ! Maybe that would be the new melee melusai temple. Edited May 11, 2022 by Eternalis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrispyXIV Posted May 11, 2022 Share Posted May 11, 2022 1 hour ago, Eternalis said: But ?... The "core" units of this temple already run and charge ! Maybe that would be the new melee melusai temple. I presume this meant "retreat and charge" as per current, but "run away and charge" was abbreviated and the confusion missed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chumphammer Posted May 11, 2022 Author Share Posted May 11, 2022 This stuff went up on the whattsapp group. Added notes on stuff that wrong or question mark Temples: Hagg Nar: +1 Blood Rites, can have a cauldron as a free behemoth Khelt Nar: retreat and charge Khailebron: CA teleport at end of movement Draichi: extra -1 rend on WE and SoS Zainthar Kai: snakes attack when they die (and snakes battleline) Kraith: SoS can fight again on 4+ Other generic stuff: Spell lore: mirror dance got changed back to 1.0 version New command trait: 4+ rally New artefact: shutting down inspiring presence and rally within 9", goes to 15" if you kill a model. (Not new but old crown of woe rewritten) Leaders: Morathi: 680 points, CA is 18” now, no more +1 to cast. Hag Queen: Witchbrew back to automatic again, but changed to +1 to blood rite. SQ on Cauldron: has +1 to prayers now (wholly within 9") Units: Witch Aelves and SoS: Bucklers give +1 to save characteristic now. Spear snakes: Doing mw’s on 2+ now (if within 1 after unit attacks) Heartrenders: no more extra rend when set-up. Lifetakers: no more extra rend on the charge. (Also still 4+ to move) Points: 680 Morathi 110 Hag Queen 90 Gladiatrix 315 SQ on Cauldron 130 Medusa 115 Ironscale 150 Khainite Shadowstalkers 180 Blood Stalkers 140 Blood Sister 120 Witch Aelves (actually 115) 95 Khinerai Heartenders 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucentia Posted May 11, 2022 Share Posted May 11, 2022 (edited) Man, what'd my Lifetakers do to deserve that? They'd just made them fun to play with in the last book! (Also, if ever a unit could've benefited from an extended coherency range...) Edited May 11, 2022 by Lucentia 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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