The_Dudemeister Posted July 3 Share Posted July 3 From Bell of Lost Slouls (yeah, I know) Battle Formations Vanishing Phantasms– Once per turn teleport with Ethereal Translocation. Hunters of the Accursed– do mortal wounds to three enemy Heroes at the end of every turn. Death Stalkers– Units can Charge after they Run or Retreat. Procession of Death– Gives friendly Black Coaches a 6″ Ward (5+) aura for Infantry. Heroic Traits Ruler of the Spectral Hosts– Once per battle set up a half-strength replacement unit command ability. Cloaked in Shadow– Only ever hit on a 4+. Terrifying Entity– This unit can do an Aura of Dread ability that was already used this turn. Artefacts Lightshard of the Harvest Moon– Once per game 12″ plus one attack bubble. Covetous Familiar– Do Mortal Wounds as a Reaction to being attacked in combat. Soulfire Ring– if you slay any models Heal(D6). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Dudemeister Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 Goonhammer has a small overview Clarifications on: Battle Formation: Vanishing Phantasms - (Once per turn (army) Your Movement Phase) Pick a friendly nighthaunt unit that is not in combat and set them up again more than 9” from all enemy units. Battle Formation: Hunters of the Accursed - (Once per turn (army) End of Any Turn) Pick up to three enemy Heroes each within 12” of a different friendly Nighthaunt Hero to be the targets – Roll a D3 for each target on a 2+ inflict an amount of mortal damage on the target equal to the roll. Artefact: Covetous Familiar - (Reaction – Opponent declares a fight ability for a unit in combat with this unit) Roll a D3, on a 2+ inflict that much mortal damage on the enemy unit equal to the roll. Manifestation Lore Mortalis Terminexus (Summon 6/ Banishment 7): In your hero phase you can add 1 to run and charge rolls for a unit or Heal (3) the target. This manifestation can’t move or fight in combat. Vault of Souls (Summon 6/ Banishment 8): Each time a model is slain give this unit a soul point. At the end of any turn, if there are six, and roll a dice for each enemy unit within 6” inflict and on a 3+ an amount of mortal damage equal to the roll. Shyish Reaper (Summon 6: Banishment 7): This manifestation moves 8”, has a 4+ save and 7 health and has a single attack for 3/2/2/4 and gets an additional 2 attacks if it charged in the same turn. Spell Lore Shademist (6 Unlimited): If successful pick a nighthaunt unit with 3 or more models and if the casting roll is successful subtract 1 from wounds that target that unit until the start of your next turn. Spirit Drain (7): Pick an enemy wizard within 18. If the cast is successful, roll a dice for every model in the unit and inflict 1 mortal damage on the target for each roll of 5+. Spectral Lure (6): Pick a friendly Nighthaunt unit wholly within 12” and return a number of slain models to the target unit with a combined Health characteristic of up to D6. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Dudemeister Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 Alright, there are some very juicy things here The Artefact Covetous Familiar doesn't just work on the hero itself when it is attacked, but on any enemy unit in combat range. So this can trigger multiple times even when your Bladegheists or whatever get attacked by an enemy unit and hero Spirit Drain is a very potent spell and I cannot believe it's on 18" range. I used that spell as a Tzeentch player to great effect on my Gaunt Summoner on 12". This will help quite nicely so other armies won't out-horde us. Spectral Lure, wonderful. Any Nighthaunt hero can become a Guardian of Souls, this makes me happy. Shademist was already known and I rate it very highly. Though I gotta admit, they did a really great job with the "Unlimited" spells of most factions that will define their respective castings. The Manifestations are also fantastic. Healing, charge bonus and 2 Manifestations that can help against elite armies and Monsters were Spirit Drain fails are great options Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 Traits/spells/manifestations/etc, all the army stuff, that looks great. I especially love terrifying entity, hopefully a mounted knight of shrouds will be good enough to be worth taking one to carry it. I hate the coach - does something that could be cool if one of your heroes is already dead when it kills a unit, but that probably won't happen because its attack profile isn't going to be killing many units. Weird techy abilities that might work but won't are fine on cheap infantry heroes or small support units, but on a huge expensive centerpiece? IMO if they're asking us$150 and like a years worth of hard labor to buy, assemble, and paint the thing then it needs to be good in blunt and obvious ways that will definitely work - either hitting like a truck or being a potent buff wagon, and this scroll does neither. No, I don't think the battle formation is sufficient to make up the difference. My big question is the units themselves. Are one or more of bladegheists, grimghasts, or harridans actually effective enough to be worth buffing? Fingers crossed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Dudemeister Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 The Black Coach certainly didn't need his damage output nerfed. We can now confidently say that the damage across the game was only very slightly toned down. More like shifted in what does deal damage. For every unit like Lady Olynder that got their damage gutted, there is at least one Reikenor who gets +1 damage on his weapon instead. That's the story for every army and their leaked warscrolls I've seen. That being said, his ability is very very potent and unique. And Nighthaunt is uniquely dependent on their very squishy heroes for the strike-last. We can't even afford to leave them out of a fight where they usually shouldn't be. On top of us wanting to charge in, remember that supporting heroes cannot be protected behind a screen anymore. Fighting is now 3" range, period. All foot heroes will now just die early, that's just 4th edition's shtick. I mathed it out and including auto-wounds and the - 1 save the coach itself provides, it does roundabout 6-7 damage to units ranging from a 3+save, 4+ save and 5+save with ward. 8 damage on 5+ without ward. Together with his shooting, the potential charge Mortal wounds and the very same roll again for 1CP on "Power Through", the Coach can kill enemy foot heroes and mop up the remainder of a diminished chaff unit. He won't revive a hero every turn (that would be silly). But you know, his ability works in the enemy turn too thankfully. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmorley21 Posted July 7 Author Share Posted July 7 Y’all are wild. This is easily the best the Black Coach has ever been in AoS. It’s close to a must take now. It’s only ever been a “I think I can make this work” unit before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnixLHQ Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 I agree with @dmorley21. The Coach feels like it will be a centerpiece pick, almost like our version of mobile terrain, except for the point cost. In other words, why wouldn't you have this on the table? Runaway Coach does mortals after a charge, including counter-charge. Mortals seem a bit rarer, and with everyone having a ward everywhere, access to 2 or 3 reliable damage isn't nothing. Then there are 21 dice to toss around fishing for auto-wounds, with 7 of them doing 2 damage. We loved that about Spirit Hosts and Frightful Touch. Sure, wards apply, but they're always going to. And if it kills something, put your Knight of Shrouds or Spirit Torment back on the table. So pick your targets well and keep resurrecting squishy heroes. The formation Procession of Death, which gives on-foot troops a ward of 5 if wholly within 6", is actually pretty damn cool. That ward buff is great, but the range not so much, so you will have to think ahead a bit, but you're already doing that playing Nighthaunt. When you read what's written on the tin, you'd think you would be keeping a particular set of troops with the Coach, hamstringing its movement. But that's not what it's for. What it does do is allow your Coach to act like an on-demand Discorporate without a Command Point. You use its 10" move or Nimbus of Power to move it around the field to give your foot troops the ward buff and use the command point on mounted infantry or any other unit. Plus, look at it! I'm glad to have such an incentive to put it on the table again. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmorley21 Posted July 7 Author Share Posted July 7 @Dudemaister I didn’t see your follow up with my post. Let’s just say, “I know people,” and those people wouldn’t leave home without the Coach. I’d agree. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Dudemeister Posted July 8 Share Posted July 8 Alright everyone. Theorycrafting is a go! 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Dudemeister Posted July 8 Share Posted July 8 Just a quick showerthought. I play a few armies and also looked at some others for general points. And I have to say, points got shuffled around substantially. Some bread-and-butter units like many former Battlelines saw virtually no changes or got points decreases. While other units, especially bigger heroes and monsters got points hikes well over 30%. For a few units we've seen warscrolls of I can make sense of what they didt. For example was I wondering how the Lord of Change is supposed to compare to all other Greater Daemons of other gods or even to the named version Kairos. Now I can see... he isn't supposed to. He's noticably the cheapest. So that example makes me a bit more confident in their points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/TZHW4u3DpMDHdP8b.pdf It's ghost time. Me reading Awrach's rules 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmorley21 Posted July 11 Author Share Posted July 11 It’s a spooky meta folks. Also, enjoy Dreadblade Harrows while they last. For my money, they’re the most broken unit in 4th at jump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Dudemeister Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 Reapers stonks going up 📈 Auto-wounding on 5+ is already better than the old +1 attack. Similar average damage against hordes, but almost completely immune to hit debuffs. But on top they get Anti-Infantry and become cheaper? Yes, please. In turn, Cairn Wraith will be a welcome sight. Also I just noticed and had to double check in the rules-that wards cannot be made against Reikenor's Corpse Candle ability. It doesn't deal a Mortal wound anymore. It allocates damage instead, which happens after ward saves would reduce damage from the pool. Neat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnixLHQ Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 I am very stoked about our offerings this go-around. Like 99% of this pack is gold. I can't wait to try some of this out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 (edited) First draft list: Awlrach - general 20 Bladegheists, special retinue Cairn Wraith 20 Grimghasts Reikenor 4 dreadblades Cairn Wraith 20 Grimghasts Guardian of Souls (ruler, nightshard) 3 spirit hosts lores: faction formation: either stalkers (probably best) or hunters total: 2k exactly, if I'm adding right 2x 1 wraith + 20 reaper blocks, Awlrach does his thing with the bladegheists, guardian hangs out with the spirit hosts supporting the grimghasts from behind until he can safely trigger ruler of the spectral hosts, then joins combat himself to pass on his buff and the nightshard bonus, reikenor sets up the terminexus turn one, then either goes wizard/priest hunting with the dreadblades to screen, or else he hangs out with the guardian supporting the grimghasts from behind and chipping in some extra damage of his own when its safe to do so, which frees the dreadblades up to do their annoying move blocking then teleoporting away gimick early game, and charging in for stun where needed mid and late game. speaking of, the list has three 20 model infantry blocks to proc shriek, 3 cavalry/warmachine units to proc stun (notably awlrach does it himself for the bladegheists, assuming they both make their 7 inch charge after teleporting, & one should have an extra +1 on that from terminexus), and 5 heroes who can proc petrify, so it should be possible to get all three triggered in most of your charge phases. 3 drops, which isn't ideal. You could replace the guardian and spirit hosts with... I don't know, another block of 20 grimghasts? a coach? But nighthaunt heroes in general are very good, and their units generally pretty cheap, so it's hard to gram down to just two battalions, especially if you're doubling up on wraith + grimghasts. It might be better to trade one of those out for bladegheists or harridans, which would save points and a battalion slot. Still, even if you don't get to choose who goes first, you're not exactly giving your opponent an easy choice. Make you go first, in which case you swarm the board with killy, ethereal ghosts and probably alpha rush him in his deployment zone with awlrach & the bladegheists, or make you go second, which probably puts your whole army in charge range from your first turn and lets you potentially nab a decisive double turn of charging with aura of dread in the mid game. Both look pretty good for this list, and if I did get to choose who goes first I'm not sure what I'd pick most of the time. Edited July 12 by Sception 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmorley21 Posted July 12 Author Share Posted July 12 Nighthaunt Awlrach the Drowner (160) - 1 x Black Coach (260) - 20 x Grimghast Reapers (280) - 1 x Cairn Wraith (130) Reikenor the Grimhailer (210) - 10 x Hexwraiths (320) - 2 x Dreadblade Harrows (160) - 10 x Dreadscythe Harridans (150) Lady Olynder, Mortarch of Grief (300) 1970/2000pts Just my thoughts without digging in too much. I won’t be leaving without Harrows, Hexwraiths, a Black Coach, and Awlrach. Reik feels good too. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 3 hours ago, dmorley21 said: Nighthaunt Awlrach the Drowner (160) - 1 x Black Coach (260) - 20 x Grimghast Reapers (280) - 1 x Cairn Wraith (130) Reikenor the Grimhailer (210) - 10 x Hexwraiths (320) - 2 x Dreadblade Harrows (160) - 10 x Dreadscythe Harridans (150) Lady Olynder, Mortarch of Grief (300) What would you teleport with awlrach? keep in mind that he can only teleport one unit (besides himself) at a time, so he can't take both cairn wraiths and the reapers at the same time, and you really want to keep those together.. He could carry the hexwraiths, but they're already pretty fast, do they really need the help? He could take the harridans, but taking a non-reinforced unit feels like you aren't using him to full effect. I suppose he's good regardless, but I'd have a hard time resisting the urge to pair him with at least one unit of 20 revenants or harridans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmorley21 Posted July 13 Author Share Posted July 13 5 hours ago, Sception said: What would you teleport with awlrach? keep in mind that he can only teleport one unit (besides himself) at a time, so he can't take both cairn wraiths and the reapers at the same time, and you really want to keep those together.. He could carry the hexwraiths, but they're already pretty fast, do they really need the help? He could take the harridans, but taking a non-reinforced unit feels like you aren't using him to full effect. I suppose he's good regardless, but I'd have a hard time resisting the urge to pair him with at least one unit of 20 revenants or harridans. Haven’t given it enough thought honestly. But that 7” teleport just seems great. Reinforced Harridans or Bladegheists are probably the best play. I’m a Sylvaneth main now - and they’re kinda where Nighthaunt were in 2.0. Very much figuring things out with their new rules so that’s been most of my focus. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmorley21 Posted July 14 Author Share Posted July 14 My friend piloted Nighthaunt to a 5-0 at Crossroads Carnage this weekend (4th edition rules were used). The other Nighthaunt player went 4-1, accidentally was 300 pts under 2k, and his only loss was to my friend. So ghosts only lost in a mirror match. Now, these were likely the two best players there and they both had played some games of 4th already. Still, Nighthaunt showing strong. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 Nighthaunt is looking /very/ strong out of the gate in 4e. I was a little low on them myself because there were specific changes I wanted that didn't happen. But none of those minor gripes actually matter because so much of this army is so good right now. A few dud units still, sure, but geeze this army is fast and hard hitting, with tons of great units and amazing heroes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnixLHQ Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 On 7/14/2024 at 4:40 PM, dmorley21 said: My friend piloted Nighthaunt to a 5-0 at Crossroads Carnage this weekend (4th edition rules were used). The other Nighthaunt player went 4-1, accidentally was 300 pts under 2k, and his only loss was to my friend. So ghosts only lost in a mirror match. Now, these were likely the two best players there and they both had played some games of 4th already. Still, Nighthaunt showing strong. Would love to know what they did. Lists and strats and all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmorley21 Posted July 16 Author Share Posted July 16 26 minutes ago, EnixLHQ said: Would love to know what they did. Lists and strats and all. He does a podcast called Cubic Shenanigans where he’ll probably talk about it on the next episode. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Dudemeister Posted July 27 Share Posted July 27 Nighthaunt at 68% winrate The age of the living is over 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted July 27 Share Posted July 27 68% is way too high, even with players still figuring out the edition. Enjoy it while you can, but I smell nerfs incoming. At the very least, control 2 on hexwraiths feels like an outright mistake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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