novakai Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 1 hour ago, Zeblasky said: Here's the funny thing. When in TW:W 1 and 2 Singleplayer people were occasionally attaking Multiplayer crowd for "ruining SP fun with their pointless balance changes and diverting resources from a main game mode for a pointless MP almost no one plays", MP crowd, besides other reasons, defended themself by an argument that WHFB was primarily a tabletop multiplayer game, and as such, TW:W should be focused on good multiplayer balance and support as well. So yea, there are actually a lot of parallels here x) Your point being what? the community is different that why Warhammer comp is not a thing as in TW: Warhammer. Investment is not the same between digital avatars versus pricy by beaultiful miniature that you paint and hold on for years. Last I heard the community comping hasn’t pressure CA into actually fixed TW quick battle and leaderboards (but it been a while for me so I don’t know if they change anything) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinthMusketeer Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 (edited) A lot of people talking about how something could be done to improve the situation, a lot of people making suggestions of how it could be done. But a notable lack of people making efforts to actually do it. And I'm not judging anyone for that, I just think it says a lot about what the task entails for implementing even the most simple of corrections. Edited September 3, 2021 by NinthMusketeer 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whispersofblood Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 6 hours ago, NinthMusketeer said: A lot of people talking about how something could be done to improve the situation, a lot of people making suggestions of how it could be done. But a notable lack of people making efforts to actually do it. And I'm not judging anyone for that, I just think it says a lot about what the task entails for implementing even the most simple of corrections. Like I said before a lot of posters have been through this whole comp thing before. It's a lot of effort, and the results are dubious at best. It's mostly a feel good exercise. You buff beastmen maybe, which helps the players who own beastmen but no one is going to buy beastmen because a comp pack makes them playable. I understand the frustration: GW are seeming unable to take rules writing professionally for any extended period of time. I think we would probably be better off just punishing the sales of factions when they are playable. If something is bad we should be actively steering people away from it and let GW sit on as much stock as possible. But that means talking to grassroots hobbiest and running the risk of upsetting them. Or we do what we have been doing accept that in the cyclical release there will be moments of disappointment, confusion and outright ridiculousness. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarouan Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 (edited) 45 minutes ago, whispersofblood said: Or we do what we have been doing accept that in the cyclical release there will be moments of disappointment, confusion and outright ridiculousness. Or we just come to the conclusion focusing only on competition as value of miniatures / games is meaningless in the great picture of life and it's better to just have fun with what you have. Edited September 3, 2021 by Sarouan 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scurvydog Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 1 hour ago, Sarouan said: Or we just come to the conclusion focusing only on competition as value of miniatures / games is meaningless in the great picture of life and it's better to just have fun with what you have. Now say that about football teams People enjoy different things after all, somewhere millions are exchanged just for one football player, while at the same time some are happily playing in their yard. Thing is the competitive setting will be more in the spotlight and when played to the max, it also multiplies the impact of any otherwise minor issue. GW are extremely slow to respond to any concerns, while also trying to sell and push as many rulebooks they can. They talk about events and the meta, yet does the absolute minimum, or less, to support it. But at this point it would not surprise me if GW begins blaming slow internal emails on "the global situation", as to why they can't just FAQ their FAQ so TOs everywhere does not have to comp this for all kinds of upcoming events. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AaronWilson Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 https://www.warhammer-community.com/faqs/ Another update today and a really good one, Wyldwoods fixed, multiple ward saved fixed, pinning a model with 2 models B2B fixed, cogs changed to 1 wizard and clarification on spell portal. 3 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimeElectrid Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 GW proving they can address this stuff, great news. Now just communicate to us what you’re intending to do and we’re in a much better place! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beliman Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 21 minutes ago, AaronWilson said: https://www.warhammer-community.com/faqs/ Another update today and a really good one, Wyldwoods fixed, multiple ward saved fixed, pinning a model with 2 models B2B fixed, cogs changed to 1 wizard and clarification on spell portal. Glad to hear that. It seems that It was not that hard. Btw, is there anything about leaving an skyvessel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boar Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 1 minute ago, Beliman said: Btw, is there anything about leaving an skyvessel? No 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AaronWilson Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 1 minute ago, Beliman said: Glad to hear that. It seems that It was not that hard. Btw, is there anything about leaving an skyvessel? No change to garrison in core rules and no update on the KO FAQ, so assume no mate. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragest Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 Thanks to the team for those faqs, now are truly amazing. One of the best set of faqs I have ever seen. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skreech Verminking Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 1 minute ago, Ragest said: Thanks to the team for those faqs, now are truly amazing. One of the best set of faqs I have ever seen. I agree with you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nqshou Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 (edited) 51 minutes ago, AaronWilson said: https://www.warhammer-community.com/faqs/ Another update today and a really good one, Wyldwoods fixed, multiple ward saved fixed, pinning a model with 2 models B2B fixed, cogs changed to 1 wizard and clarification on spell portal. I don't see the change to Wyldwood, am I blind? Edit: I am. They removed "remove Navigate Realmroots allegiance ability and replace with the one in the woods warscroll". Edited September 3, 2021 by Nqshou Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annarborhawk Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 Did they just delete the after-ward extra ward FAQ? Doesn't that just leave it open for debate? Why didn't they just leave that FAQ in there but change the answer? Am I blind? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrispyXIV Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 Just now, annarborhawk said: Did they just delete the after-ward extra ward FAQ? Doesn't that just leave it open for debate? Why didn't they just leave that FAQ in there but change the answer? Am I blind? They clarified Wards to make it 100% super clearer that it was a definition that applies to all abilities that roll dice to negate wounds. Regardless of timing. No real room for debate - if you roll a die its a ward and doesn't stack. If you don't roll a die, negate away. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AaronWilson Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 1 minute ago, KrispyXIV said: They clarified Wards to make it 100% super clearer that it was a definition that applies to all abilities that roll dice to negate wounds. Regardless of timing. No real room for debate - if you roll a die its a ward and doesn't stack. If you don't roll a die, negate away. They have made the old "negate a wound allocated" into ward saves, so it's simply a armour save + your best save to prevent wound or mortal wound 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eternalis Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 Does a ward save work on both wound and mortal wounds? Let's say I had a 5+ FnP against MW, now it's a ward save. Will it work on wounds, as "ward save" affects both? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AaronWilson Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Eternalis said: Does a ward save work on both wound and mortal wounds? Let's say I had a 5+ FnP against MW, now it's a ward save. Will it work on wounds, as "ward save" affects both? If it specifically says mortal wounds, I believe it stays for only mortal wounds. Edited September 3, 2021 by AaronWilson 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yukishiro1 Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 (edited) Stuff like this proves that GW is capable of acting relatively quickly when it really screws the pooch, at least in so far as fixing what it screwed up. That's different from not messing up in the first place, but at least it shows the company can move relatively quickly when it feels pressured to do so. The lesson we should take from this is that community outcry is exactly what is required when GW messes something up. We absolutely can get them to pay attention, and we can get them to fix things in a decent timeframe...but only when we force them to by generating so much protest that it spurs them into acting. If there hadn't been this huge outcry, we wouldn't have got these fixes in the time frame we did. Obviously it's best to be civil when expressing that dissatisfaction, but it shows the company is responsive to overwhelming fan discontent. This is actually arguably the big change between old GW and new GW: new GW pays attention to social media. It's not necessarily any more friendly a company, but it is more aware of how it is perceived, and therefore more responsive to fan discontent. So that means it's up to us to make sure we use that lever in appropriate circumstances. Edited September 3, 2021 by yukishiro1 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinthMusketeer Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, yukishiro1 said: Stuff like this proves that GW is capable of acting relatively quickly when it really screws the pooch, at least in so far as fixing what it screwed up. That's different from not messing up in the first place, but at least it shows the company can move relatively quickly when it feels pressured to do so. The lesson we should take from this is that community outcry is exactly what is required when GW messes something up. We absolutely can get them to pay attention, and we can get them to fix things in a decent timeframe...but only when we force them to by generating so much protest that it spurs them into acting. If there hadn't been this huge outcry, we wouldn't have got these fixes in the time frame we did. Obviously it's best to be civil when expressing that dissatisfaction, but it shows the company is responsive to overwhelming fan discontent. This is actually arguably the big change between old GW and new GW: new GW pays attention to social media. It's not necessarily any more friendly a company, but it is more aware of how it is perceived, and therefore more responsive to fan discontent. So that means it's up to us to make sure we use that lever in appropriate circumstances. This, so much this. And well said. I am certainly very happy to see this response from GW. Yes there are ways they could improve but that is also the point: this shows improvement. Credit where credit is due, thanks GW. Edited September 3, 2021 by NinthMusketeer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reinholt Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 As someone who slams GW for being tone deaf when they break things, here I will say this: good job fixing it quickly, GW. That is a very positive sign, especially the ward + wyldwood issues as those were critical and gamebreaking for those armies where those were an issue (e.g. where you could majorly stack wards and for Sylvaneth). If GW continues with updates that quickly and iterates, the game will be in a better place (with higher sales as the competitive scene grows, but the publicity also driving the less competitive scene). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinthMusketeer Posted September 4, 2021 Share Posted September 4, 2021 Balance and good rules affect far more than the competitive scene. I cannot count the number of people I've met who explicitly left Warhammer because of bad experiences with balance and/or rules, and the most common reason I hear for people coming back is 'they fixed X' or 'they improved the rules for playing with Y'. If anything the competitive scene is the most likely to thrive on imbalance because exploiting it is the heart and soul of competitive Warhammer! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleboda Posted September 4, 2021 Share Posted September 4, 2021 On 9/2/2021 at 12:08 PM, PrimeElectrid said: I 🤷♂️ don’t want to wait another 4 months to play Stormcast at an event only to find out the FAQ breaks something else. I totally hear you on that one. It's suuuuper frustrating to be building (after buying!) an army for an event only to find your idea is invalidated by a FAQ'd FAQ of FAQy correction. I'm not sure a community version would be any better, though. More cooks in the kitchen is not usually a good thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleboda Posted September 4, 2021 Share Posted September 4, 2021 On 9/2/2021 at 3:37 PM, Zeblasky said: The same thing that happens when a player does not want to play by a ruiling of some Council of Games Workshop Believe me, I understand GW (or Mythic or AMG - the companies behind my current two "fave" games (Super Fantasy Brawl and Crisis Protocol)) is not perfect, but like any manufacturer/designer, they provide one enormous advantage that no other option (no matter how amazing the community might be) does: universality. No matter where you go or who you meet, you will find players with a default setting, so to speak. You need no negotiation. You, rightly, assume that the rules everyone got are in effect. Even if the rules are perceived to be flawed by some, at least every single player has them and you can get a game in based on the universal known rules. Just for me, personally, I can't bring myself to even try to impose what I think is the "correct" version of a rule on someone when we both already know what the rule is. I'm just not that self-important. Please note: I'm not accusing anyone here of being that. It's a personal feeling. I just don't think it's my place to try to get someone to, essentially, break the rules to satisfy me. 4 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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