Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion

[Big Kim Woof-Woof]

18 minutes ago, Lucentia said:

... but then it no longer has the main KoS support ability in Excess of Violence, even though Shalaxi (Who is theoretically more of a solo operative) still has it.  

 

Yeah, I found that particularly galling. It doesn't suit Shalaxi at all. 

[Lucentia]

On the flip side, Shalaxi hasn't been a serious consideration for lists basically ever, so I can understand the impetus for giving them at least one useful ability!

But if I were to play hot swap on abilities, I'd remove the summoning from the Keeper and shift it to either the terrain piece, the Epitome, or the twins (Or some combination of those), so there's space to put Excess of Violence back on the KoS scroll.  And then Shalaxi can have some sort of nod to the old Locus of Diversion/Cloak of Constriction by giving them some sort of strikes last effect vs enemy heroes/monsters.

Edited July 3 by Lucentia

[zombiepiratexxx]

Once again it looks like GW doesn't have an idea for what they want Slaanesh to be or do. They've got arguably the weakest set of Battle Traits going, Temptation dice can be objectively worse for Slaanesh players in the options they surrender to their opponent to dictate the battle, no more summoning (which wasn't really a Slaanesh thing anyway) and nothing to replace that really. Just seems like once more minimum effort to get it out of the door. 

[Big Kim Woof-Woof]

9 minutes ago, zombiepiratexxx said:

Just seems like once more minimum effort to get it out of the door. 

But other factions got all sorts of shiny baubles to play with. You can tell that much just from the faction focuses (foci?) 

It feels like Slaanesh almost always gets the rubbish rules. Someone in a decision-making position at GW clearly dislikes Slaanesh. 

[azdimy]

My kos will be staying home unitl we get a new warscroll. We lost too much in my opinion. 2" mvt, excess of violence, ability to be summoned using depravity. Dark temptation is a bad mechanic inline with our bad battletrait. Cacophonic choir is still the same bad spell tha4 we ve always had and never use despite bravery going away they manage to basically not change it! Shalaxi is miles better than the kos now. Maybe artefacts/command trait will change my mind but I doubt it.

Summoning back half a deamon unit once per your hero phase on a 4+ is too unreliable. I played gitz and failed that roll so many times when I needed a unit back! And we won t have nearly as many units to bring back as the gitz did

[Big Kim Woof-Woof]

I know every player, regardless of their allegiance, likes to play the hard-done-by routine.

...but, blimey, I feel like playing Slaanesh is a constant uphill struggle! I was hoping so hard that this new edition would see us find a nice, balanced place... but just about everything that's been revealed thus far is mediocre at best (Shalaxi possibly excepted... and that's only because they were largely rubbish before!) 

Oh well. I shall persevere with the Dark Prince's legions, nevertheless. We've still got the best lore and the best models around! 

[ibel]

So what i see is not as Bad as i was thinking.

The Keeper is a littel bit i was expectiot. Other thinks are okay and seems not to overpowered and so.... maybe we hab to remender that in the new Edition everything is not as PowerDmging and so just the Keeper Speel is amazing because many Units just have control 1 or 2 so u can make 3 time W3 dmg.

The last think we must hope for is that the Pointcost are not to high.

[Poryague]

Edited July 5 by Poryague

[Poryague]

So honest wargammer put out a bunch of f slaanesh rules. Based of those rules you can do some calculations.

[ibel]

I See the Honest Vid:

Thinks with comes in my mind:

Synesse + Dexcesse seems Cool. Hope they didnt get to Expensive each so u could use both in the Same List (plus maybe Shallaxi+3times Dämonettes or Seeker or so NIZE)

Question: The Fury Token, did they stay on Dexcesse or did they gone after a turn or so ?

Glutos + a bunch of Hedonits maybe a List, but i am a littel Scaried, Glutos maybe be very expensive.

Questen: Can Glutos Heal him self ?! So is he a legal target for his ability?

Is a Bunch of Hellflayer THE Think, or better: You in the Hell has some of this thinks !

after all i am not super hyped but other Fraction are not as SuperStrong as everybody think. Lets cross fingers for Monday, for the Points  

[Big Kim Woof-Woof]

1 hour ago, ibel said:

Synesse + Dexcesse seems Cool. Hope they didnt get to Expensive each so u could use both in the Same List

Indeed. I like the idea of them having synergy when taken together... but it's probably going to require a lot of points. 

[Magnus The Blue]

As someone who has an old school pure cavalry army (Seekers and helstriders) and most of the centrepiece models, I'm quite happy with the warscolls.  Assuming they are not silly points wise a Keepers + Cav army definitely feels viable. Most of the army with run and charge just feels so right.

[Lucentia]

My general two cents on the (points-less) warscrolls:

There's some good stuff in here, the question is whether it's good enough to outweigh letting your opponent functionally charge/redeploy wherever they'd like to.  (My suspicion is probably not, but if the traits get adjusted at some point then some of these units are quite good.)

Glutos looks strong, though now more of a buff wagon than something that can anchor an entire flank by himself.

Sigvald is slower than ever, but is otherwise basically the same, and in a good position to take advantage of Counter-Charge.

The Epitome is no longer going to be seen in every list (In fact, I think it looks kinda bad!) I was hoping this would finally be the time for the Enrapturess to shine, but they look even less useful than before.

I like paring down the chariot warscroll options, but it feels like only the Hellflayer is going to have much value.

All the cavalry options seem decent to me in different ways, especially as cav bases are kinda the only viable screening tools in 4.0.

I still don't know why Painbringers are the offensive guys and Twinsouls get the defensive rules, but whatever, both seem decent.

Dex and Syn I'm less sold on, they're so wildly fragile.  But if they're cheap enough I could see value in both.

Shalaxi we've already seen and they're obviously good, probably your best option for a tough, distraction missile that can run in and do some damage.

Spells all seem decent, with the caveat that the unlimited one is only doing anything if activating EK frequently is actually viable and not just handing your opponent the game.  Might be some quibbling with the timing on Phantasmagoria, if the enemy can still pile in after you move then it's doesn't let you escape combat, but could still be good for limiting damage and repositioning.

Manifestations are also fine, Mirror you kinda need to be casting behind the opponent's line for it to be super useful, which could be tricky.

Still kinda looks like blissbarb spam might be the way to go, they kept their 18" range, and can still get lots of easy buffs on their shots from what I could see.

 

[Big Kim Woof-Woof]

I'm wondering whether spamming Daemonettes might be a tasty way to go. Lots of them means that some might end up in combat. Buff them up and they could do substantial damage. 

Ignore the fact that I've got 50+ painted Daemonettes (and more awaiting the paint) kicking their spiky heels... 

[madix]

The new points are out and I have to admit that they don't really convince me. 
Although many units have remained the same or even become cheaper, while most other factions have seen their points go up, I find the internal balancing very poor. 
It looks like Slaanesh will probably remain a bombardment faction in the meta and Herohammer will probably also become a little less. In particular, several of the hero options have been massively nerfed in terms of rules and now cost significantly more points. 

In addition, unlike many other factions, we have quite strong guidelines as to which unit may be in which regiment, which makes it somewhat more difficult to reduce the drops. 

Here is an overview of the point changes (there may still be a mistake here and there. Got a bit late last night 😅

 

[Big Kim Woof-Woof]

+120 for Shalaxi!? My gods... I know their warscroll is good, but I'm not sure it's 490 points good! 

Blissbarb Archers are listed as a unit of 10. I hope they're not dropping the Homunculus... it's such a characterful little model. 

[blazexiii]

34 minutes ago, Big Kim Woof-Woof said:

+120 for Shalaxi!? My gods... I know their warscroll is good, but I'm not sure it's 490 points good! 

Blissbarb Archers are listed as a unit of 10. I hope they're not dropping the Homunculus... it's such a characterful little model. 

See someone talk about it , Homunculus is a token now, no more free wound.

[madix]

The Homunculus is still there but now it's a Token and no more a model on the field. (like the tokens from the Kruelboyz)

He gives -1 to hit against shooting, but the first time you role a unmodified 1 for a save you need to remove it after the sequence. So no more +1 to wound and 1 less wound for the unit...

 

And yeah, nearly 500 points for Shalaxi is heavy

[Lucentia]

The Epitome is down 30, not up 30, but it's also no longer an auto-include piece.  Also,  trying to compare points back to 3rd is kind of a fool's errand, it really is a completely different playing field.

I don't know, it's hard to say just on paper, but these points don't look out of line with other 4.0 faction adjustments to my eye.  Obviously, I'll need to play some proper games to form real opinions, but I don't see anything there that really raises an eyebrow.  

[blazexiii]

Reading the core rule and share some thoughts about temptation dice from Excess of Depravity.
1) temptation dice is not an unmodified '6'
2) temptation dice cannot be applied to a unit more than once per phase (THE RULES OF ONE)
3) Command: Redeploy is not a run roll so temptation dice cannot be applied

[Big Kim Woof-Woof]

22 hours ago, Lucentia said:

I don't know, it's hard to say just on paper, but these points don't look out of line with other 4.0 faction adjustments to my eye.  Obviously, I'll need to play some proper games to form real opinions, but I don't see anything there that really raises an eyebrow.  

I agree, mostly. In fact, there's enough good stuff there that I'd be super excited about everything they've done for the new edition... but then I remember the absolute dog's breakfast that they've made with the Temptation Dice. 

[pnkdth]

22 hours ago, Lucentia said:

The Epitome is down 30, not up 30, but it's also no longer an auto-include piece.  Also,  trying to compare points back to 3rd is kind of a fool's errand, it really is a completely different playing field.

I don't know, it's hard to say just on paper, but these points don't look out of line with other 4.0 faction adjustments to my eye.  Obviously, I'll need to play some proper games to form real opinions, but I don't see anything there that really raises an eyebrow.  

SoW posted a 4th battle report and the FEC army had Ushoran, King on dragon, 2 courtiers, 6 flayers, 6 horrors, and 3 morb knights. Quite a small army which lacked screening units though I also appreciate that it was also their first game and they were probably just getting a feel for their respective armies.

It is a single example but I get the feeling, at least initially, this edition will punish players who try to field too many of the wombo-combos at the same time and leave them with no board control or objective play.

 

[zombiepiratexxx]

The FEC army was also voted to be played by the community so I'm not sure how familiar they were with that army but on paper it was not a good force to take, too many points in heroes for a start and that played out over the game. 

[Lucentia]

To be fair,  FEC are an army that's very reliant on having lots of heroes, even in 4th, as all their battle traits are keyed through them.  But, yes, you probably wouldn't normally see both Ushoran and a mounted Ghoul King in the same list.

Though it's worth noting that universally screening units are harder to come by under the new coherency rules, 10 model 25mm units can't really fill the role anymore, so if your army doesn't have cost-effective access to either 20 model hordes or 5 model cav bases screening in the traditional way will be difficult.  (To say nothing of the fact that you can't really sneak a hammer unit <3" behind a screen as a counterpunch now either, as the enemy can just fight 3" over the screen.)

To veer things back towards Hedonites, what do we think of Slickblades versus Hellstriders at this point?  They're almost identical units in terms of keywords and stats, with hellstriders at 1 less wound per model but with a potentially more valuable ability, and a much smaller footprint, for 30 less points than the Slickblades, I don't wanna use those tragic old hellstrider models, but rules-wise they look to have a lot of merit again.

[Big Kim Woof-Woof]

1 hour ago, Lucentia said:

To veer things back towards Hedonites, what do we think of Slickblades versus Hellstriders at this point?  They're almost identical units in terms of keywords and stats, with hellstriders at 1 less wound per model but with a potentially more valuable ability, and a much smaller footprint, for 30 less points than the Slickblades, I don't wanna use those tragic old hellstrider models, but rules-wise they look to have a lot of merit again.

Tragic...? Bit harsh. I quite like the Hellstrider models. Granted, they're not bursting with dynamism... but I like the style of their armour and weapons. Especially now that I can have a mix of Claws and Scourges in a unit. They're certainly a lot easier to assemble and paint than the Slickblades! 

Anyway. Yeah, Hellstriders seem a tasty option now. I doubt I'll be leaving them out of my typical army list. The Slickblades, bless 'em, haven't done quite so glowingly in the new rules. Plus there's the absence of standard and musician.