Ejecutor Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 10 minutes ago, Snorri Nelriksson said: Why not both though? We focused on ghur in this edition but the narrative shifted to the Hammerhal crusades. I'm expecting Ulgu considering is the last realm to fully explore....still hoping the Grungni\duardin storyline will finally kicks in(and not sidelined for more stormcasts armor making XD). But can the Dawnbringer series can be considered enough realm exploration? I wouldn't say so. Where we've seen most of Ghur's exploration, imo, is in warcry with all the Gnarwood scenery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flippy Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 7 hours ago, Grunbag said: Chamon ! there is multiple reason for moving to chamon : - more skaven warmachine - CoS cogfort or new war machines - kruleboyz big yellerz machine such as stolen cogfort - it’s realm of gloomspite gitz so either more gitmob and Frazzlegit, or new sculpt of spiderfangs - more kharadron overlord ship - grotbag scuttles joining destruction And not a single one relates to Elves. One thing I've learned from the long history of Warhammer is that ultimately the core story is always, always driven by this or that Elven drama. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RocketPropelledGrenade Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 I'd be okay with either, as they are both favorites. And I think there's a compelling case for either one as well. Personally, though, I want to see a return to all realms being possible battlegrounds. Not necessarily realm rules, just less narrative focus on a single realm at a time. ...In fact, if realm rules were killed altogether, that might make me happiest after enduring all the GHB gimmicks. I love 3e, but the GHBs are the worst part of it and it's not even close IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hollow Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 (edited) . Edited December 1, 2023 by Hollow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gitzdee Posted December 2, 2023 Share Posted December 2, 2023 (edited) I agree with most things already being said. Both are a great contrast to Ghur and i think Warmachines are the mechanic thats missing from the game right now and that leans heavily into Chamon. But i could also see that happening with Hysh. Im not convinced Chamon and Ulgu are the only 2 options left for 4th edition. Imho a Hysh and Ulgu combo being the dark and light realms would be an awesome setting for 4th edition. There is a lot of good stuff to be explored here. Malerion and Tyrion, Gloomspite and Frazzlegitz, Idoneth Deepkin, Skaven. Seems like fun to me. Sorry im not in a hurry to see Chorfs. This era of the beast edition showed me it doesnt have to be all that obvious with FEC, CoS, SCE and Fyreslayers all getting beasts or big creatures too. Whatever 4th is going to be, it will be great. Edited December 3, 2023 by Gitzdee 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hollow Posted December 2, 2023 Share Posted December 2, 2023 (edited) 23 hours ago, RocketPropelledGrenade said: Personally, though, I want to see a return to all realms being possible battlegrounds. Not necessarily realm rules, just less narrative focus on a single realm at a time. I agree with this. I'd like to see an edition approached with 4 months to each realm, with an accompanying Battletome-sized "Realm Tome" that describes and explores each of the realms in detail. Edited December 2, 2023 by Hollow 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ejecutor Posted December 2, 2023 Share Posted December 2, 2023 24 minutes ago, Hollow said: I agree with this. I'd like to see an edition approached with 4 months to each realm, with an accompanying Battletome-sized "Realm Tome" that describes and explores each of the realms in detail. The problem I see with this is that we are forcing the narrative to fit that pattern, lowering the narrative quality. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hollow Posted December 3, 2023 Share Posted December 3, 2023 (edited) 7 hours ago, Ejecutor said: The problem I see with this is that we are forcing the narrative to fit that pattern, lowering the narrative quality. No, I'm not talking about a narrative series. I'm talking about building out the realms as settings in their own right. Their histories, geographies, points of interest and what each of the main factions are up to in those realms in a general sense. Short stories about characters past and present that have taken place within the realms. Different towns, cities and settlements and how they work, giving depth to the realms, not as a device to drive the narrative, but to build out the background. (Also lots of new artwork and maps!) Edited December 3, 2023 by Hollow 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RocketPropelledGrenade Posted December 3, 2023 Share Posted December 3, 2023 Realm lore tomes would be cool, as long as they were implemented in a way so as not to constrict the possibilities of the realms. But I don't see that it would be necessary to tie them to the edition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hollow Posted December 3, 2023 Share Posted December 3, 2023 A potential release roadmap for a series of "Realmtombs" could be approached in several ways. Take Age of Sigmar 4th as an example, If the edition launches in JULY 2024. You could have a couple of months for the initial launch and the first two accompanying Battletomes (Stormcast and Skaven) with a "Realmtome" for a realm (Chamon) Released in September. A Realm Tomb could then be released every four months, with a total of 8 being released across the edition. AoS 4th - July 2024 Chamon - September 2024 Ghyran - January 2025 Ulgu - May 2025 Hysh - September 2025 Shyish - January 2026 Aqshy - May 2026 Azyr - September 2026 Ghur - January 2027 AoS 5th - July 2027 If GW wanted to push the boat out then the "Realmtombs" could be released alongside Flaura/Fauna/Scenery miniatures. I think it would be a tough sell for GW to release a book series like this without including some rules. So you could have a bunch of Realm-specific special rules for the different factions, scenarios, and historical battles of note. I've always thought that Gdubs is leaving good money on the table by not properly investing in a full scenery department. Why they haven't ventured into producing Neoprene mats is beyond me. As a consumer, I should be able to go onto Warhammer.com, go to scenery and for a couple of hundred quid, click a desired realm and get a "Realmtomb", gaming mat, scenery, Flaura/Fauna and some themed gaming goodies like dice, measuring tape etc. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ejecutor Posted December 3, 2023 Share Posted December 3, 2023 7 minutes ago, Hollow said: A potential release roadmap for a series of "Realmtombs" could be approached in several ways. Take Age of Sigmar 4th as an example, If the edition launches in JULY 2024. You could have a couple of months for the initial launch and the first two accompanying Battletomes (Stormcast and Skaven) with a "Realmtome" for a realm (Chamon) Released in September. A Realm Tomb could then be released every four months, with a total of 8 being released across the edition. AoS 4th - July 2024 Chamon - September 2024 Ghyran - January 2025 Ulgu - May 2025 Hysh - September 2025 Shyish - January 2026 Aqshy - May 2026 Azyr - September 2026 Ghur - January 2027 AoS 5th - July 2027 If GW wanted to push the boat out then the "Realmtombs" could be released alongside Flaura/Fauna/Scenery miniatures. I think it would be a tough sell for GW to release a book series like this without including some rules. So you could have a bunch of Realm-specific special rules for the different factions, scenarios, and historical battles of note. I've always thought that Gdubs is leaving good money on the table by not properly investing in a full scenery department. Why they haven't ventured into producing Neoprene mats is beyond me. As a consumer, I should be able to go onto Warhammer.com, go to scenery and for a couple of hundred quid, click a desired realm and get a "Realmtomb", gaming mat, scenery, Flaura/Fauna and some themed gaming goodies like dice, measuring tape etc. And even if I love that you included Azyr, it could even be removed and leave more time for the rest, as for the moment Azyr is kind of a heaven with no action. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hollow Posted December 3, 2023 Share Posted December 3, 2023 34 minutes ago, Ejecutor said: Azyr is kind of a heaven with no action. It's not just about "action" though. It's about world-building. There is so much to explore in terms of the Realm Of Heavens. Stories of the refugees from the Age of Chaos, regional maps, and cityscapes of Azyrheim, Grimpeak, Hallowstar, Nordath, Skydock and Starhold. Grand paintings from the different ages, past heroes and politicians. I want to know how the cities are run, their councils, cultures and courts. How the diverse populations reconcile their differences (or don't). Readers could journey into the great libraries and vaults detailing the Age of Myth, and explore in detail the history of the Dracoths and Stardrakes. Azyr would allow writers to explore political intrigue and duplicitous organizations. (Such as the Guild of the Cat, the premier thieves and murderers of the mortal realms) and of course, there is Mallus! The remains of the World-That-Was! Tell tale of the haunting whispers that can be heard dancing across the winds by those who mine it for Sigmarite. (Do I hear... Settra!, Dun, Dun Duuuun!) Then you have the endless possibilities for introducing "action" Potential portals being opened to summon demons, different politicians and champions settling their differences in grand colosseums, Gnaw-Holes from the Skaven opening up into the realm and discontent erupting between different races, factions and lodges. Each of the Realms offers a million possibilities in terms of world-building. Which is kind of the point I am making. They shouldn't just be back-drops, they should be deeply layered, integral characters in their own right. They should be Middle Earth, Westeros and Narnia-type worlds that invoke excitement, imagery and passion when their names are uttered. They should be fun, scary, whimsical, serious, and detailed. They should be storied and revered. They should be peak fantasy. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flying_dutchman Posted December 4, 2023 Share Posted December 4, 2023 6 hours ago, Hollow said: A potential release roadmap for a series of "Realmtombs" could be approached in several ways. Take Age of Sigmar 4th as an example, If the edition launches in JULY 2024. You could have a couple of months for the initial launch and the first two accompanying Battletomes (Stormcast and Skaven) with a "Realmtome" for a realm (Chamon) Released in September. A Realm Tomb could then be released every four months, with a total of 8 being released across the edition. AoS 4th - July 2024 Chamon - September 2024 Ghyran - January 2025 Ulgu - May 2025 Hysh - September 2025 Shyish - January 2026 Aqshy - May 2026 Azyr - September 2026 Ghur - January 2027 AoS 5th - July 2027 If GW wanted to push the boat out then the "Realmtombs" could be released alongside Flaura/Fauna/Scenery miniatures. I think it would be a tough sell for GW to release a book series like this without including some rules. So you could have a bunch of Realm-specific special rules for the different factions, scenarios, and historical battles of note. I've always thought that Gdubs is leaving good money on the table by not properly investing in a full scenery department. Why they haven't ventured into producing Neoprene mats is beyond me. As a consumer, I should be able to go onto Warhammer.com, go to scenery and for a couple of hundred quid, click a desired realm and get a "Realmtomb", gaming mat, scenery, Flaura/Fauna and some themed gaming goodies like dice, measuring tape etc. I'd love it in theory. But they can't even stock the current range. And multiple armies across both games need to be refreshed. Maybe if the shareholders were a little less greedy they could actually expand the company. 1 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hollow Posted December 4, 2023 Share Posted December 4, 2023 (edited) 19 minutes ago, flying_dutchman said: I'd love it in theory. But they can't even stock the current range. And multiple armies across both games need to be refreshed. Maybe if the shareholders were a little less greedy they could actually expand the company. What do you mean? They have expanded the company massively over the last 5 years. In 2017 the company had 267 production and design staff, in 2023 that number is over 714! There were significant production bottlenecks caused by all sorts of issues over the last few years. The company has expanded massively. I would suggest having a read through this very informative article from Dungeon Investing on the company's growth and how it has expanded in many different ways. Shareholders aren't holding back expansion in any way shape or form (I know, because I am one! lol) Edited December 4, 2023 by Hollow 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flippy Posted December 4, 2023 Share Posted December 4, 2023 14 hours ago, Hollow said: I've always thought that Gdubs is leaving good money on the table by not properly investing in a full scenery department. Why they haven't ventured into producing Neoprene mats is beyond me. As a consumer, I should be able to go onto Warhammer.com, go to scenery and for a couple of hundred quid, click a desired realm and get a "Realmtomb", gaming mat, scenery, Flaura/Fauna and some themed gaming goodies like dice, measuring tape etc. I'm 100% with you on this. GW's current approach to terrain is laughable - odd scenery parts here and there, no choice, weak theme, no cohesion. I assume they just don't care about this element of the hobby. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hollow Posted December 4, 2023 Share Posted December 4, 2023 2 minutes ago, Flippy said: I'm 100% with you on this. GW's current approach to terrain is laughable - odd scenery parts here and there, no choice, weak theme, no cohesion. I assume they just don't care about this element of the hobby. It does come across as such an afterthought. They even use other companies' Neoprene gaming mats for their events at Warhammer World! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flying_dutchman Posted December 4, 2023 Share Posted December 4, 2023 12 hours ago, Hollow said: What do you mean? They have expanded the company massively over the last 5 years. In 2017 the company had 267 production and design staff, in 2023 that number is over 714! There were significant production bottlenecks caused by all sorts of issues over the last few years. The company has expanded massively. I would suggest having a read through this very informative article from Dungeon Investing on the company's growth and how it has expanded in many different ways. Shareholders aren't holding back expansion in any way shape or form (I know, because I am one! lol) They also claimed 43% of revenue as profit which is extremely high. They're expanding production but still not enough to meet increased demand. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJetski Posted December 4, 2023 Share Posted December 4, 2023 1st edition ended with Nagash doing his big spell and starting the Soul Wars, so it focused (somewhat) on Shyish 2nd edition ended with Alarielle doing her big spell and starting the Era of the Beast, so it focused on Ghur If the pattern follows, some big event is going to take place in the next (and final?) Dawnbringers book. I don't think there are any significant narrative hooks that strongly point to any particular realm... the crusades aren't even in Ghur. I do think Chamon seems the most probable of all the options, given the connections to Tzeentch, Skaven, and Grungni. But maybe we just stay in Ghur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Bull Posted December 4, 2023 Share Posted December 4, 2023 I’m leaning towards Ulgu because I’m extremely biased. but also the end of Broken Realms had Belakor talking to Eshin assassins and Malerion paying his mom a visit 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted December 4, 2023 Share Posted December 4, 2023 I personally hope they don't pin an entire edition to a single realm again. I vastly prefer 2e's approach, taking a wider hollistic view of the realms and letting individual battletomes, campaign books, and matched play seasons focus in on whatever interesting is going on regardless of what realm its ins. Let the attention shift at least on a yearly basis along with the matched play season, and put out a new game board & terrain box (including reprints of oldhammer and 1e terrain as appropriate, some of that stuff still holds up) each year to match. Just try to line up the matched play, narrative campaign, and war-cry focus so the same terrain fits everything, and have them all switch to the same new realm/location each year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grunbag Posted December 4, 2023 Share Posted December 4, 2023 4 hours ago, PJetski said: 1st edition ended with Nagash doing his big spell and starting the Soul Wars, so it focused (somewhat) on Shyish 2nd edition ended with Alarielle doing her big spell and starting the Era of the Beast, so it focused on Ghur If the pattern follows, some big event is going to take place in the next (and final?) Dawnbringers book. I don't think there are any significant narrative hooks that strongly point to any particular realm... the crusades aren't even in Ghur. I do think Chamon seems the most probable of all the options, given the connections to Tzeentch, Skaven, and Grungni. But maybe we just stay in Ghur Kragnos turn to do a big move to end in chamon ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ejecutor Posted December 4, 2023 Share Posted December 4, 2023 Just now, Grunbag said: Kragnos turn to do a big move to end in chamon ? Would be weird, as he is in Ghyran. What about Kroak? He could do something trying to stop Kragnos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grunbag Posted December 4, 2023 Share Posted December 4, 2023 1 hour ago, Ejecutor said: Would be weird, as he is in Ghyran. What about Kroak? He could do something trying to stop Kragnos. Kragnos is fighting Karazai isn’t it ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ejecutor Posted December 4, 2023 Share Posted December 4, 2023 7 minutes ago, Grunbag said: Kragnos is fighting Karazai isn’t it ? Yes. And that was a plan made by Kroak if I am not wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grunbag Posted December 4, 2023 Share Posted December 4, 2023 Just now, Ejecutor said: Yes. And that was a plan made by Kroak if I am not wrong. Yeah so that’s possible . As long as we end in chamon… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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