Warhammer: The Old World News and Rumours Thread

[JackStreicher]

3 hours ago, Bosskelot said:

I do know that Element and Wayland have yet to come close to selling through their original allocations of Skaventide. The biggest independent retailer in Spain only sold 10% of their stock of it too. Not to mention last time I looked 2 weeks ago Skaventide still hadn't sold out on GW's store; they were still offering the ultra limited edition with the coins too which only had a stock of something like 24,000.

ofc caveats are that we don't know what GW's internal benchmarks consider to be successful and that the launch box doing poorly doesn't necessarily mean the rest of the range/game is doing bad.

Only speculation left then:

- Too many people were put off by their squatting wave

- Way more people than expected suffer from the AoS fatigue caused by third edition (not just me)

- Wololo

Edited September 3 by JackStreicher

[Ejecutor]

53 minutes ago, Bosskelot said:

I do know that Element and Wayland have yet to come close to selling through their original allocations of Skaventide. The biggest independent retailer in Spain only sold 10% of their stock of it too. Not to mention last time I looked 2 weeks ago Skaventide still hadn't sold out on GW's store; they were still offering the ultra limited edition with the coins too which only had a stock of something like 24,000.

ofc caveats are that we don't know what GW's internal benchmarks consider to be successful and that the launch box doing poorly doesn't necessarily mean the rest of the range/game is doing bad.

Where is that stock info about Spanish retailer coming from? Because I don't know about GT (which is I suppose the one you are talking about), but smaller stores sold more than 70% of the stock whenever I asked them.

[Tonhel]

10 hours ago, AquaRegis said:

It probaly is a just a delay due to logistics. 

However there is some speculation, that GW is realigning its releases due to a series of flops, and to cover some of the losses has increased the pace of Old World releases since that has been a big sucsess. 
The flops being Skaventide, a couple of 40K releases like the Kroot and expansion books, and possibly a couple of other releases and hype around 10th not being that popular. 
I'm not sure I belive the speculation, but it does seem that Old World is getting a increased priority for releases. 

I wouldn't call it a flop. I think they just made a lot of Skaventide boxes as it's still available everywhere, 

Although I wouldn't mind that the new direction of 40K 10th and AoS 4th edition doesn't really result in a huge succes, so that there is a shift in vision (A little bit less obsessed with balance and adding a little bit more options/customization to AoS and 40K again).

The shop I am keeping an eye on still have the Skaventide box at 167 euro and the stock allocation remained the same the last two weeks. So if the price drops a little bit more, I will get my Skaventide box.

The thing is that with re-releasing old Warhammer stuff, the profit margin is so much bigger as the investment was recouped a long time ago. So it's easier with TOW to make a bigger profit than i.e with new AoS kits.

No new TOW stuff in 2024 doesn't really feel like an increased priority for releases, but maybe we will see in 2025 a bigger release schedule.

 I would prefer to see a couple of legacy factions (Vampires) brought back to TOW before releasing Cathay). If there is a new faction introduced I would prefer Kislev and Norsca before.

And if there is indeed a grain of truth that there are some releases that flopped it would be a smart move to bring back legacy factions. I.e if Skaven was a proper core faction and received its Arcane Journal it would surely result in more AoS Skaven sales.

 

 

 

[Ejecutor]

48 minutes ago, Tonhel said:

The thing is that with re-releasing old Warhammer stuff, the profit margin is so much bigger as the investment was recouped a long time ago. So it's easier with TOW to make a bigger profit than i.e with new AoS kits.

IMO this all depends on how much is produced for each game. I still think that, even being a  "flop", AoS is still making more profit because of the production numbers.

[GhostShark]

I suspect that the AOS boxes (both this one and the last one) were purposely overproduced. They provide and extremely easy and attractive entry point to the game, and its alright if they're available for edition's entire lifespan at regular price, or even a deep discount. The purpose of the box is to get new people playing, and existing players to starts a new army.

This is the 3rd time in a  row that the supply of the boxes seems to exceed demand. GW isn't great at estimating demand but they're not that bad and they usually error on the side of caution. So this seems like a purposeful strategy.

[cyrus]

13 hours ago, Tonhel said:

No new TOW stuff in 2024 doesn't really feel like an increased priority for releases, but maybe we will see in 2025 a bigger release schedule.

 I would prefer to see a couple of legacy factions (Vampires) brought back to TOW before releasing Cathay). If there is a new faction introduced I would prefer Kislev and Norsca before.

And if there is indeed a grain of truth that there are some releases that flopped it would be a smart move to bring back legacy factions. I.e if Skaven was a proper core faction and received its Arcane Journal it would surely result in more AoS Skaven sales.

 

 

 

GW have been pretty clear on legacy factions too.

 

[Ejecutor]

7 minutes ago, cyrus said:

GW have been pretty clear on legacy factions too.

 

But this all was before they said they changed the approach based on the success of the game, right?

Maybe we need 9 years or so like HH, but other stuff will end getting added to the game.

[Nezzhil]

55 minutes ago, cyrus said:

GW have been pretty clear on legacy factions too.

 

It doesn't matter how many times you repeat what GW are saying or even good leakers said about "legacy armies". It is better to trust clickbaiters, as they recognized by themselves, but then we will return to the frustration of the reality when the campaings books start coming with units of the retail factions without mention anything of the legacy armies.

[Tonhel]

1 hour ago, cyrus said:

GW have been pretty clear on legacy factions too.

 

I believe that Legacy factions will come back. Probably not for this edition, but we will see them.

And as @Ejecutor said this was before that TOW releases received such a positive response and before they said the scope of the project has changed.

If anything after all these years of being a GW customer its perfect clear that GW can say A and do B without blinking an eye.

It's a fact that if GW would releases a proper TOW armylist for Skaven and a Skaven Arcane Journal that sales would increase for those new Skaven mini's.

If with the next financial report there is stagnation of their profit than I am certain we will see TOW legacy factions sooner or later.

It all depends of the sale figures of AoS 4th edition. In the latest Honest Wargamer video. Rob just called the decision to just copy paste the Skaven index in the Skaven Battletome boring. Infact he isn't really encouraging buying the Skaven battletome. Compare that with the Arcane Journals.

Anyway, maybe it is possible that legacy will stay legacy, but you could wonder how they will avoided Vampire Counts if TOW is here to stay 😎 and will receive more editions.

Edited September 4 by Tonhel

[Skreech Verminking]

16 hours ago, JackStreicher said:

Only speculation left then:

- Too many people were put off by their squatting wave

- Way more people than expected suffer from the AoS fatigue caused by third edition (not just me)

- Wololo

I mean the biggest problem of that boxset

are the stormy marines.

they are really not selling at all currently.

i’m literally struggling getting rid of those liberators, at some points I just forced somebody to accept it as a present

[Skreech Verminking]

16 hours ago, JackStreicher said:

Only speculation left then:

- Too many people were put off by their squatting wave

- Way more people than expected suffer from the AoS fatigue caused by third edition (not just me)

- Wololo

I mean the biggest problem of that boxset

are the stormy marines.

they are really not selling at all currently.

i’m literally struggling getting rid of those liberators, at some points I just forced somebody to accept it as a present

[michu]

I mean, I would be interested in ScE if not the squatting and my dislike of Thunderstrike armour.

[Skreech Verminking]

31 minutes ago, michu said:

I mean, I would be interested in ScE if not the squatting and my dislike of Thunderstrike armour.

My dislike in total for aos marines, just wants me to get rid of them.

but sadly apparently, like uou have mentioned, nobody wants them, at least not in my area (ps: if anybody here wants them they’ll have to pay for the shipping cost)

 

[Noserenda]

Calling the new AoS a flop just because it hasnt sold out is a bit premature, similarly, as a former retailer myself, if a retailer has 400 copies that speaks a lot more to their incompetence than gws really.

Stormcast are awkward to resell just because of their exposure, coming in every starter and being a fairly popular army in their own right the supply to the secondary market is huge but for the same reason the demand is tiny, and AoS (like warhammer before it) does not seem to inspire the same madness that 40k does when it comes to truly enormous armies that might drive demand up even a little.

Id be surprised if GW havent overproduced again, the last starter was their biggest seller in the range by a huge margin and was still piling up in drifts, even dialling back they might not have gotten it right and are likely to have erred on the side of caution.

Personally, the models are great, but i have a fairly new actual baby to fund right now

[michu]

23 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

My dislike in total for aos marines, just wants me to get rid of them.

but sadly apparently, like uou have mentioned, nobody wants them, at least not in my area (ps: if anybody here wants them they’ll have to pay for the shipping cost)

 

I, on the other hand, was always a big fan of ScE (calling them AoS marines is a complete misunderstanding of how different they are), but their redesign killed all the interest I had in them.

[AquaRegis]

15 hours ago, Tonhel said:

I wouldn't call it a flop. I think they just made a lot of Skaventide boxes as it's still available everywhere, 

Although I wouldn't mind that the new direction of 40K 10th and AoS 4th edition doesn't really result in a huge succes, so that there is a shift in vision (A little bit less obsessed with balance and adding a little bit more options/customization to AoS and 40K again).

The shop I am keeping an eye on still have the Skaventide box at 167 euro and the stock allocation remained the same the last two weeks. So if the price drops a little bit more, I will get my Skaventide box.

The thing is that with re-releasing old Warhammer stuff, the profit margin is so much bigger as the investment was recouped a long time ago. So it's easier with TOW to make a bigger profit than i.e with new AoS kits.

No new TOW stuff in 2024 doesn't really feel like an increased priority for releases, but maybe we will see in 2025 a bigger release schedule.

 I would prefer to see a couple of legacy factions (Vampires) brought back to TOW before releasing Cathay). If there is a new faction introduced I would prefer Kislev and Norsca before.

And if there is indeed a grain of truth that there are some releases that flopped it would be a smart move to bring back legacy factions. I.e if Skaven was a proper core faction and received its Arcane Journal it would surely result in more AoS Skaven sales.

 

 

 

It's just speculation, and I'm not sure if I agree 100%. If they produced the same amount of boxes as they did leviathan (which flew off the shelves) then on the face of it, it would have failed to sell as well as 40k. That's probably down to the huge gap in popularity, more then anything else. 

 

[AquaRegis]

31 minutes ago, Noserenda said:

Calling the new AoS a flop just because it hasnt sold out is a bit premature, similarly, as a former retailer myself, if a retailer has 400 copies that speaks a lot more to their incompetence than gws really.

Stormcast are awkward to resell just because of their exposure, coming in every starter and being a fairly popular army in their own right the supply to the secondary market is huge but for the same reason the demand is tiny, and AoS (like warhammer before it) does not seem to inspire the same madness that 40k does when it comes to truly enormous armies that might drive demand up even a little.

Id be surprised if GW havent overproduced again, the last starter was their biggest seller in the range by a huge margin and was still piling up in drifts, even dialling back they might not have gotten it right and are likely to have erred on the side of caution.

Personally, the models are great, but i have a fairly new actual baby to fund right now

Its more likely that there's either been a couple of small flops this year, or there's some logistical/production issue that's not public yet. 

The fact that 40k being GWs most popular and best selling range is getting no new releases this year (with the exception of maybe a krieg box in November) is strange.

Tbf it could also indicate that the delay is because of a change in direction in how they progress 10th Ed. The last two codexes clearly had a change in design philosophy, and by all accounts GW seem to be addressing some of the big issues in 10th. 

[Sarouan]

12 minutes ago, AquaRegis said:

Its more likely that there's either been a couple of small flops this year, or there's some logistical/production issue that's not public yet.

Well, for AoS, I think that they advertised the new edition way too soon (Dawnbringer books weren't even all released yet) and for way too long. Of course people would stop buying if they know something new will come that will basically invalidate all the previous rules.

It's more a marketing / hype building question, IMHO.

Also, constantly pushing the competitive way to play in their articles / online doesn't help. God am I tired of that infernal metabalance pace that keep changing the basic rules / list building so fast.


That's why I like the slower pace of Old World. It gives players time to adapt, play and build their armies before they suddenly got "invalid" because of some metabalance update. It's a good thing when you see the number of miniatures you need to have for a 2000 points army.

[Ejecutor]

2 hours ago, Tonhel said:

I believe that Legacy factions will come back. Probably not for this edition, but we will see them.

And as @Ejecutor said this was before that TOW releases received such a positive response and before they said the scope of the project has changed.

If anything after all these years of being a GW customer its perfect clear that GW can say A and do B without blinking an eye.

It's a fact that if GW would releases a proper TOW armylist for Skaven and a Skaven Arcane Journal that sales would increase for those new Skaven mini's.

If with the next financial report there is stagnation of their profit than I am certain we will see TOW legacy factions sooner or later.

It all depends of the sale figures of AoS 4th edition. In the latest Honest Wargamer video. Rob just called the decision to just copy paste the Skaven index in the Skaven Battletome boring. Infact he isn't really encouraging buying the Skaven battletome. Compare that with the Arcane Journals.

Anyway, maybe it is possible that legacy will stay legacy, but you could wonder how they will avoided Vampire Counts if TOW is here to stay 😎 and will receive more editions.

I agree that GW could change their minds, but I see new armies over legacy ones to maintain that line between AoS and ToW.

[Ejecutor]

2 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:

I mean the biggest problem of that boxset

are the stormy marines.

they are really not selling at all currently.

i’m literally struggling getting rid of those liberators, at some points I just forced somebody to accept it as a present

In my experience both sides are selling at about the same pace.

[Tonhel]

3 minutes ago, Ejecutor said:

I agree that GW could change their minds, but I see new armies over legacy ones to maintain that line between AoS and ToW.

Maybe, but this can change in both directions. It all depends on their financial numbers and a lot of "if"s

There are ofcourse a couple of armylists that can be done before bringing back legacy factions. Halflings i.e.

Although in one way or another I believe we will see somekind of implementation of Vampires / undead. But we will see. 

[Bosskelot]

19 hours ago, JackStreicher said:

Only speculation left then:

- Too many people were put off by their squatting wave

- Way more people than expected suffer from the AoS fatigue caused by third edition (not just me)

- Wololo

From my anecdotal experience 4th edition seems to be a lot more popular than 3rd and has seen a lot of new players.

 

The thing is those players aren't playing SCE or Skaven because they didn't buy Skaventide. Like I said in my post; a launch box doing well or poorly doesn't necessarily correlate to how the game as a whole is doing. 

 

And there could be a multitude of reasons why people aren't buying the launch box. People might like to point the blame at SCE but I legit think the choices of antagonist factions within the last two boxes haven't really had a broad appeal. Kruleboyz were this new type of orc which deliberately strayed away from what is now classic Warhammer Orc anatomy and on top of that the marketing and messaging around them and whether they were even their own army didn't help things either. With skaven, they're well loved and looked on fondly by people, but they've never been a popular army to collect. A horde army that is difficult to paint. That's their identity. The kind of thing is poison to broad collecting popularity.

 

Necrons and Tyranids though? Outside of Nids already being a popular faction in their own right both factions are widely known to be THE easiest armies in the game to paint. That absolutely helped drive sales and you saw a giant.uptick in players of both armies post launch. Necrons are now the 3rd most popular army in the game ffs 

In general I think GW us struggling in recent years to really guarantee success of all of these different launch boxes. The success of certain launch or army boxes has obviously led to an idea that all of them must do well, when clearly, across all of their systems, there's plenty of inconsistency.

Like recently you had KT Nightmare and the Warcry box come out on the same weekend. KT went OOS globally within 2 minutes. The Warcry box never came close to selling out and most of the stock either stayed on shelves or got sent back to GW. They just don't have any idea of the products they make and what will or won't be popular. 

[michu]

Skaven. Hard to paint. The army that's literally "basecoat/wash/drybrush and who cares about details".

[Ejecutor]

Just now, michu said:

Skaven. Hard to paint. The army that's literally "basecoat/wash/drybrush and who cares about details".

You can say that of every single faction

[michu]

It's more true for skaven. They are supposed to be dirty and dressed in rags. No point in highlighting everything.

Edit: The reason why skaven player weren't that interested in Skaventide that I've seen the most is that while the new clanrats are technically better, their dynamic poses make the "army of clones" look more obvious. Old rats had a very limited pose but it looked good in a horde. These ones are too individualistic for that. They're good for Mordheim/Warcry not for bigger game.

Edited September 4 by michu