General Chat Thread

[MitGas]

20 hours ago, woolf said:

Its funny how in spite of setting up this thread, people are still gravitating to the rumour thread for general chat, would kinda have assumed the mods to be in favour of keeping discussions here but I guess not huh

Perhaps it will change later on, when there are fewer news items all the time, it‘s understandable that people talk in there about the latest preview. This thread is an experiment - if it doesn‘t work, we tried and no one can complain that the Rumour Thread gets cluttered. I‘m thankful for you guys supporting this thread and things might change around once we don‘t get AoS news almost daily but it‘s a slow (purposeful!) process, not everyone wants to check out other threads at first when the Rumour Thread is the most popular one by far. 

[PraetorDragoon]

19 minutes ago, MitGas said:

I guess the writers at GW don‘t have the mental capacity to understand that the forces of the actual god of magic(!) (don’t you dare, I know what you‘re thinking, woolf) should be the best at it but it‘s alright. I‘m used to it at this point - we all know that lizards being OP is part of AoS‘s core identity. 🤭

 

If they at least gave us better CC capabilities in return - back when I started, Tzeentchian Lords weren‘t just lvl 4 wizards, they could also tear you to shreds in combat. And that‘s how it should be! 😇

Tzeentch is the god of all magic, which includes the mages who flunked out of magic college! Which explains some spellcast capacity.

[Flippy]

1 hour ago, MitGas said:

I guess the writers at GW don‘t have the mental capacity to understand that the forces of the actual god of magic(!) (don’t you dare, I know what you‘re thinking, woolf) should be the best at it but it‘s alright.

You are whining, and meanwhile…

[Satyrical Sophist]

So started noodling around with some numbers, looking at Seraphon. One thing I realised was that I can't for the life of me find the exact rules for Companion as a USR. I swear I've looked through all the articles. I can't remember exactly what it does. I think I've got stuff worked out right, but I'm not 100%.

Anyhow, comparing some of the Seraphon units. I've included 1+ on saves assuming you give a 2+ save +1 to save. This is how much damage you expect from 

	Vanilla Carnosaur	Carnosaur Charging	Carnosaur Itzl	Carnosaur Itz+Charge	Vanilla Steg	Steg Charging	Steg Itzl	Steg Charging Itzl	Vanilla Krox	Krox Anti Infantry	Krox Anti Infantry and Damage
1+	2.82	3.19	3.52	3.89	0.83	1.25	1.11	1.67	2.22	4.44	6.30
2+	5.02	5.76	6.20	6.94	1.67	2.50	2.22	3.33	4.44	6.67	9.44
3+	7.22	8.33	8.89	10.00	2.50	3.75	3.33	5.00	6.67	8.89	12.59
4+	9.42	10.90	11.57	13.06	3.33	5.00	4.44	6.67	8.89	11.11	15.74
5+	11.62	13.47	14.26	16.11	4.17	6.25	5.56	8.33	11.11	13.33	18.89
6+	13.19	15.42	16.11	18.33	5.00	7.50	6.67	10.00	13.33	13.33	18.89
-	13.19	15.42	16.11	18.33	5.00	7.50	6.67	10.00	13.33	13.33	18.89

Thats how much damage you expect from those three warscrolls. I've not included all out attack because I wasn't sure what interaction it has with Companion. Stegadon should have 1.7 damage higher on each stage assuming you have only one stegadon (for its rampage). 

A fully buffed carnosaur has a pretty reasonable chance of picking up an enemy carnosaur on the charge. Itzl seems good, but does mean giving up the other bonuses. 

[The Lost Sigmarite]

Lost track of TGA the last month or so, what do you think of the new battle traits. Which are good, which are ok and which are bad ? I’m a bit lost between all the WarCom articles about 4E, I didn’t even understand why people were disappointed about Slaanesh battle traits.

[Vasshpit]

@The Lost Sigmarite Vince explains very well why Slaanesh is frowned upon. 

 

[Acrozatarim]

34 minutes ago, Satyrical Sophist said:

So started noodling around with some numbers, looking at Seraphon. One thing I realised was that I can't for the life of me find the exact rules for Companion as a USR. I swear I've looked through all the articles. I can't remember exactly what it does. I think I've got stuff worked out right, but I'm not 100%.

 

I believe, from what we've seen, that Companion means the weapon doesn't get bonuses from stuff that adds attacks, etc, to a model unless it specifically calls out Companion weapons (like Lauka Vai's power does). So if you drop a +1 Attack spell on a unit of cavalry, their horses don't get the bonus, just the riders, etc.

[MitGas]

14 minutes ago, Vasshpit said:

@The Lost Sigmarite Vince explains very well why Slaanesh is frowned upon. 

 

To be fair, the rules aren‘t the only reason why 🥴

[MitGas]

51 minutes ago, Flippy said:

You are whining, and meanwhile…

You got it wrong, I’m winning. It‘s all part of the plan!
 

The pic doesn‘t load for me bit I guess they‘re content? 

[Satyrical Sophist]

19 minutes ago, The Lost Sigmarite said:

Lost track of TGA the last month or so, what do you think of the new battle traits. Which are good, which are ok and which are bad ? I’m a bit lost between all the WarCom articles about 4E, I didn’t even understand why people were disappointed about Slaanesh battle traits.

Slaanesh Battle Traits (assuming they don't get anything else) are really not good. The downside for using them is often going to be so bad that you choose not to use them. The reason I say assuming that they don't get anything else is that theoretically war scrolls could interact further with them.

You have two linked abilities. Euphoric units get critical hits (2 hits), and run and charge/run and shoot. You can make up to three units Euphoric. For each unit you do this to, your opponents gets pretty close to a destiny dice that has a chance of hurting them if they use it, and counts as a 6. You can't use it on hits, but you can use it on charges if you have two of them.

Giving your opponent a guaranteed 12 inch charge is frankly insane, even before you factor in stuff like counter charge on your own go. So the most likely total result of your battle traits is either you use it once to give a benefit that is basically +1 to hit and give your opponent a significant benefit, or you make no units Euphoric and have no battle trait.

The way that it could be redeemed would be if war scrolls interacted heavily with it. Say you have a lot of units that get critical hits on 5s, or units that receive additional bonuses for being euphoric, or other ways to get euphoric.

[novakai]

Also no matter how you spin it, an allegiance ability that give your opponent a buff for little downside will always feel bad.

the optics just doesn’t look good

[Flippy]

1 hour ago, MitGas said:

You got it wrong, I’m winning. It‘s all part of the plan!
 

The pic doesn‘t load for me bit I guess they‘re content? 

How so? 😱

 

[woolf]

3 hours ago, MitGas said:

I guess the writers at GW don‘t have the mental capacity to understand that the forces of the actual god of magic(!) (don’t you dare, I know what you‘re thinking, woolf) should be the best at it but it‘s alright. I‘m used to it at this point - we all know that lizards being OP is part of AoS‘s core identity. 🤭

 

If they at least gave us better CC capabilities in return - back when I started, Tzeentchian Lords weren‘t just lvl 4 wizards, they could also tear you to shreds in combat. And that‘s how it should be! 😇

 

 

 

 

 

....teclis 🫣

[woolf]

3 hours ago, MitGas said:

Perhaps it will change later on, when there are fewer news items all the time, it‘s understandable that people talk in there about the latest preview. This thread is an experiment - if it doesn‘t work, we tried and no one can complain that the Rumour Thread gets cluttered. I‘m thankful for you guys supporting this thread and things might change around once we don‘t get AoS news almost daily but it‘s a slow (purposeful!) process, not everyone wants to check out other threads at first when the Rumour Thread is the most popular one by far. 

Yeah I suppose old habits die hard... but released articles are not exactly rumours, neither is idle speculation or hopes or whatever.. .that is more GENERAL CHAT! yes thats it!

Anyways I will continue to post anything that is not directly rumour related here! (at least until we consider the experiment dead...)

[ScionOfOssia]

1 minute ago, woolf said:

 

 

 

 

 

....teclis 🫣

I pray they give Teclis something to represent his soul curse, like a roll to see if he straight-up dies every time he activates. 

[woolf]

1 hour ago, Acrozatarim said:

I believe, from what we've seen, that Companion means the weapon doesn't get bonuses from stuff that adds attacks, etc, to a model unless it specifically calls out Companion weapons (like Lauka Vai's power does). So if you drop a +1 Attack spell on a unit of cavalry, their horses don't get the bonus, just the riders, etc.

Yeah companion is the new "mount" but also covers side-kick pets etc

[MitGas]

10 minutes ago, woolf said:

 

 

 

 

 

....teclis 🫣

[Arzalyn]

2 hours ago, The Lost Sigmarite said:

Lost track of TGA the last month or so, what do you think of the new battle traits. Which are good, which are ok and which are bad ? I’m a bit lost between all the WarCom articles about 4E, I didn’t even understand why people were disappointed about Slaanesh battle traits.

Those are my personal opinion for the ones we have so far:
Good - Stormcast, Skaven, Nighthaunt, Cities, Flesh-eaters, Fyreslayers, Idoneth, Sons, Ossiarch, Khaine, Lumineth, Kruleboyz, Soulblight, Seraphon.

Ok - Nurgle, KO, Tzeentch, Gitz and Ogors.

Bad - Slaanesh.

Good you have two tiers: rules didn't change much from what we have now and were good (Idoneth, Khaine, Soulblight, Flesh-eaters, Sons) or New rules look really good/cool (SCE, Skaven, Nighthaunt, Cities, Fyreslayers, Ossiarch, Lumineth, Kruleboyz and Seraphon). The OK is mostly factions that the focus don't show how much the new traits are integrated into the faction (like how much tzeentch/nurgle will use/have ways to apply burning/disease and KO will be hard to tell without seeing all the warscrolls and buffs they may have) or that have usable but boring rules (Ogors and Gitz). Slaanesh people have already said the problems it has. If it didn't apply to charges I think it would be in the OK category (good effect, but a little boring).

Edited June 17 by Arzalyn

[Aphotic]

Any allegiance ability that triggers on a random roll is bad. It's too much RNG to rely on, especially factions that come in with a baseline of 4's to hit, which.... don't get me started on 4's to hit.

 

I am absolutely not looking forward to 4th so far.

[Beliman]

35 minutes ago, Aphotic said:

don't get me started on 4's to hit

You can "cheat" the hit roll with All-out-attack. 4s to wound just cut in half your damage output.

[Satyrical Sophist]

59 minutes ago, Aphotic said:

Any allegiance ability that triggers on a random roll is bad. It's too much RNG to rely on, especially factions that come in with a baseline of 4's to hit, which.... don't get me started on 4's to hit.

 

I am absolutely not looking forward to 4th so far.

The alternative is everything ending up 3s and 3s which is also a problem, particularly since it lets them be buffed to 2s and 2s. 

[woolf]

Personally don't really mind a bit of randomness although it can be very annoying sometimes yes.. I think as long as its not random to a degree where the entire game just becomes a coin flip its fine, but ofc if the swing effect is so extreme so it completely dwarfs any tactical play there is a design problem.

Eg. the new Kruleboyz trait I think looks really fun, sure there will be A LOT of misses on those 5+'s but the effects are all very good and you can roll enough of them during the game that you will hit a lot as well, so boils down to not just relying on that thing to happen but rather see it as a bonus when it does.

As we commented on a few times now, the Slaanesh one seems utterly garbage, just even mathematically it makes no sense that they wrote it like that... I really just dont get that one haha

 

[MitGas]

2 hours ago, Aphotic said:

Any allegiance ability that triggers on a random roll is bad. It's too much RNG to rely on, especially factions that come in with a baseline of 4's to hit, which.... don't get me started on 4's to hit.

 

I am absolutely not looking forward to 4th so far.

The 4s to hit for the Curseling feels like a personal attack but we'll see how 4th turns out. I think it looks quite decent overall. There will be winners and losers obviously but it's GW, we should be thankful if it's not 40k-bad. 😂

[Satyrical Sophist]

1 hour ago, woolf said:

Personally don't really mind a bit of randomness although it can be very annoying sometimes yes.. I think as long as its not random to a degree where the entire game just becomes a coin flip its fine, but ofc if the swing effect is so extreme so it completely dwarfs any tactical play there is a design problem.

Eg. the new Kruleboyz trait I think looks really fun, sure there will be A LOT of misses on those 5+'s but the effects are all very good and you can roll enough of them during the game that you will hit a lot as well, so boils down to not just relying on that thing to happen but rather see it as a bonus when it does.

As we commented on a few times now, the Slaanesh one seems utterly garbage, just even mathematically it makes no sense that they wrote it like that... I really just dont get that one haha

 

The Kruelboyz abilities honestly look really cool and thematic. They don't have a huge amount of heroes or units, but it's also very ripe for interacting with with war scrolls. A hero being able to auto succeed a failed dirty trick once per game, another hero being able to have a particular dirty trick not count to your total etc. 

I think they knocked it out of the park with the krule boy abilities. And they are random.

 

The opposite side of the random thing is that if stuff gets too deterministic then it can become unfun as well. Necrons had a gun that fired d6 shots at d6 damage each, meaning between 0 and 36 damage at the other end. It was called the roulette cannon.

[woolf]

11 minutes ago, Satyrical Sophist said:

I think they knocked it out of the park with the krule boy abilities. And they are random.

100% agree with you on this. In spite of having some aelves on the shelf I play Kruleboyz as my "main" army atm (actually Big Waaagh with mostly KBz but yeah.. well...) and was super happy and hyped about these faction abilities - some added hero interaction like you mention would be great but even without it I think the randomness is manageable.. then again am also not playing in tournaments so maybe for some ppl the lack of consistency is an issue.