General Chat Thread

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

7 minutes ago, MitGas said:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/06/03/warhammer-age-of-sigmar-faction-focus-fyreslayers/

 

 

In case you wish to discuss FS in more detail...

Fyreslayers abilities seem pretty good. Not sure about the warscrolls, though. 4" moves with 6+ saves seems rough, even with all the wards and save bonuses they can get. Hearthguard Berzerkers used to be the anvillest anvils around, seem like they are a bit more vulnerable now. At least by default.

[Tonhel]

As a non FS player, I like the battletraits and such, but they will indeed suffer in the shooting phase with their low / none armour saves and 6+/5+ ward and when units are able to fight back.

[Skreech Verminking]

22 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

Fyreslayers abilities seem pretty good. Not sure about the warscrolls, though. 4" moves with 6+ saves seems rough, even with all the wards and save bonuses they can get. Hearthguard Berzerkers used to be the anvillest anvils around, seem like they are a bit more vulnerable now. At least by default.

True although it does fit to them.

no armour, not even some good obelix pants or a kilt, would definitely indicate that they have almost no safe

I prefer this over 4+/3+ save hearthguard berserlers with a 4+ ward save

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

5 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

True although it does fit to them.

no armour, not even some good obelix pants or a kilt, would definitely indicate that they have almost no safe

I prefer this over 4+/3+ save hearthguard berserlers with a 4+ ward save

I will say that I think the commitment of 4th to "sensemaking" with respect to saves and weapon profiles is interesting. I wonder if it will play well. I think those values have trended towards getting better and better over the course of the lifespan of AoS, so it is definitely a reversal of direction in some ways. It's hard to gauge the impact of these changes in a vacuum, given the new universal 3" combat range and reduced shooting distances.

[PraetorDragoon]

During my time of gaming I have learnt that sadly, there is a gap between "stats that make sense" and "stats that are good for the game." We will see in which way AOS4 lean. 

Interesting to see that the spearhead rules use a singular ability and a list for the runes. I find that more readable than the pile of abilities of which you can use only one per turn for the non-spearhead allegiance.

[Ejecutor]

1 hour ago, woolf said:

U guys think its another Order one tomorrow? 

Idoneth tomorrow

[Tonhel]

15 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

I will say that I think the commitment of 4th to "sensemaking" with respect to saves and weapon profiles is interesting. I wonder if it will play well. I think those values have trended towards getting better and better over the course of the lifespan of AoS, so it is definitely a reversal of direction in some ways. It's hard to gauge the impact of these changes in a vacuum, given the new universal 3" combat range and reduced shooting distances.

I wouldn't have mind to see FS troops get 3 health and the non FS duardin improved to 2 health. As they are now, they will suffer from shooting attacks, rend isn't even needed. Against close combat armies like StD they will be very dangerous, but against an army that has more shooting power, they will easly have to endure 1 - 2 shooting phases before they are in combat These Heartguard Berzekers will be a priority target for shooting with their close combat power.

I still like the FS Faction focus, but I am curious how it will play. We have a FS player in our small group, so I will know soon 😄.

[Big Kim Woof-Woof]

1 hour ago, Ejecutor said:

Monday Mini!

A New Black Library Hero Rises with an Incredible Novel and Miniature - Warhammer Community (warhammer-community.com)

A Khorne daemon in its rightful place. I approve. 

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

20 minutes ago, PraetorDragoon said:

During my time of gaming I have learnt that sadly, there is a gap between "stats that make sense" and "stats that are good for the game." We will see in which way AOS4 lean. 

Interesting to see that the spearhead rules use a singular ability and a list for the runes. I find that more readable than the pile of abilities of which you can use only one per turn for the non-spearhead allegiance.

 

Just now, Tonhel said:

I wouldn't have mind to see FS troops get 3 health and the non FS duardin improved to 2 health. As they are now, they will suffer from shooting attacks, rend isn't even needed. Against close combat armies like StD they will be very dangerous, but against an army that has more shooting power, they will easly have to endure 1 - 2 shooting phases before they are in combat These Heartguard Berzekers will be a priority target for shooting with their close combat power.

I still like the FS Faction focus, but I am curious how it will play. We have a FS player in our small group, so I will know soon 😄.

Even though it fits their look, an army that is both slow-moving and frail will have a tough time. It does not really make sense in terms of game play. It remains to be seen to what degree Fyreslayers have the ability to compensate for this with movement abilities and save/ward bonuses.

In a vacuum it looks like using the run and charge rune early, in conjunction with whatever deep strike abilities they have, in order to engage enemy ranged units will probably have to be the default game plan. They certainly don't look like they can afford to slowly shuffle across the board for 2 turns.

[PraetorDragoon]

2 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

 

Even though it fits their look, an army that is both slow-moving and frail will have a tough time. It does not really make sense in terms of game play. It remains to be seen to what degree Fyreslayers have the ability to compensate for this with movement abilities and save/ward bonuses.

In a vacuum it looks like using the run and charge rune early, in conjunction with whatever deep strike abilities they have, in order to engage enemy ranged units will probably have to be the default game plan. They certainly don't look like they can afford to slowly shuffle across the board for 2 turns.

Oh I agree. My friend who plays fyreslayers mainly likes them for their durability and plays more defensive. I can already hear his rants. 

[Ejecutor]

New How to Play video:

Get Your First Taste of #NewAoS in Action With this How To Play Video - Warhammer Community (warhammer-community.com)
 

 

[woolf]

So about FS do we have a bit of a reverse Ogre situation with strong battle traits / worse scrolls?

[Ejecutor]

We are not seeing the full picture. It is too early to compare anything.

[MitGas]

36 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

 

Even though it fits their look, an army that is both slow-moving and frail will have a tough time. It does not really make sense in terms of game play. It remains to be seen to what degree Fyreslayers have the ability to compensate for this with movement abilities and save/ward bonuses.

In a vacuum it looks like using the run and charge rune early, in conjunction with whatever deep strike abilities they have, in order to engage enemy ranged units will probably have to be the default game plan. They certainly don't look like they can afford to slowly shuffle across the board for 2 turns.

Visually it makes sense IMO but then again dwarves are tough as nails, tougher than humans at least. So a 6+ seems not entirely fitting for basic units from that POV (I thought they had a 5+). You raise a valid point though - slow and lightly armored are hard drawbacks to overcome. I‘m just thinking of that crazy new Skaven gun… or certain spells! 
 

Perhaps FS will get more abilities to overcome this? While 3+/3+ is a decent basic statline, it‘s definitely not enough and prayer of ash or a 5+ ward won‘t be either. 
 

But once again we are at a point where we‘d need more info to say anything truly concrete for sure. 
 

They either need more defensive buffs or ways to transport them fast. 

Edited June 3 by MitGas

[MitGas]

41 minutes ago, Big Kim Woof-Woof said:

A Khorne daemon in its rightful place. I approve. 

That bloodletter‘s getting promoted to a Daemon Prince for its failure in a minute! 👏

[woolf]

22 minutes ago, Ejecutor said:

We are not seeing the full picture. It is too early to compare anything.

Arguably their fashion style is waaay more revealing than most factions tho ^^

jokes aside the pull between visual coherency and in game / play style practicality is quite interesting imo and quite a tough skill test on game designers 

[Ejecutor]

9 minutes ago, woolf said:

Arguably their fashion style is waaay more revealing than most factions tho ^^

jokes aside the pull between visual coherency and in game / play style practicality is quite interesting imo and quite a tough skill test on game designers 

Yeah, the new rules team is very promising. Hopefully we start a new golden era for AoS.

[Gailon]

It’s hard to project the new rules impact in how these traits and scrolls play. 
 

Counter charge is a big buff to ogres that everyone just ignored while complaining? As is smaller objectives where OC could be more important. 
 

my thing for Fyreslayers is the new terrain rules. Namely obscuring terrain that blocks line of sight without needing 3” of the terrain between. And maps that suggest terrain placement, making it far more likely games are played with more terrain and obscuring terrain in important places. 
 

combine that with objectives and battle plans that could be built for more immediate action and I’m not sure why everyone assume Fyreslayers are getting shot with impunity for two turns. By an enemy who just doesn’t want objectives? 
 

also remember that smaller objectives means that you almost always have to fight to take an objective. I won’t be able to sneak 10 gitz on the far side of an objective to take it from hearthguard. I’ll have to fight them off most of the time. 
 

also, a lot of these shooting units we are so scared off can’t shoot in combat. So even if you do get shot for two turns, if you get in you aren’t getting shot again. This will really limit the ability to have mostly shooting armies in the game. 
 

I think some of these rules will really change how we theorycraft these warscrolls. 

[ScionOfOssia]

30 minutes ago, Gailon said:

It’s hard to project the new rules impact in how these traits and scrolls play. 
 

Counter charge is a big buff to ogres that everyone just ignored while complaining? As is smaller objectives where OC could be more important. 
 

my thing for Fyreslayers is the new terrain rules. Namely obscuring terrain that blocks line of sight without needing 3” of the terrain between. And maps that suggest terrain placement, making it far more likely games are played with more terrain and obscuring terrain in important places. 
 

combine that with objectives and battle plans that could be built for more immediate action and I’m not sure why everyone assume Fyreslayers are getting shot with impunity for two turns. By an enemy who just doesn’t want objectives? 
 

also remember that smaller objectives means that you almost always have to fight to take an objective. I won’t be able to sneak 10 gitz on the far side of an objective to take it from hearthguard. I’ll have to fight them off most of the time. 
 

also, a lot of these shooting units we are so scared off can’t shoot in combat. So even if you do get shot for two turns, if you get in you aren’t getting shot again. This will really limit the ability to have mostly shooting armies in the game. 
 

I think some of these rules will really change how we theorycraft these warscrolls. 

Plus “They get shot to bits!”. By who exactly? There’s like 3.5 good shooting factions in AoS, 4.5 if we include Kruleboyz, and they’ve got the tools to deal with them. Gunline armies aren’t nearly as much of a thing as people believe. 

[MitGas]

1 hour ago, woolf said:

Arguably their fashion style is waaay more revealing than most factions tho ^^

jokes aside the pull between visual coherency and in game / play style practicality is quite interesting imo and quite a tough skill test on game designers 

Let‘s start a petition to stop those sick and twisted GW designers from objectifying duardin like that! 🤭😆 

 

[woolf]

16 minutes ago, MitGas said:

Let‘s start a petition to stop those sick and twisted GW designers from objectifying duardin like that! 🤭😆 

 

Agreed! But at least we have a great thread were we can discuss, complain and rage about it! 

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

1 hour ago, Gailon said:

It’s hard to project the new rules impact in how these traits and scrolls play. 
 

Counter charge is a big buff to ogres that everyone just ignored while complaining? As is smaller objectives where OC could be more important. 
 

my thing for Fyreslayers is the new terrain rules. Namely obscuring terrain that blocks line of sight without needing 3” of the terrain between. And maps that suggest terrain placement, making it far more likely games are played with more terrain and obscuring terrain in important places. 
 

combine that with objectives and battle plans that could be built for more immediate action and I’m not sure why everyone assume Fyreslayers are getting shot with impunity for two turns. By an enemy who just doesn’t want objectives? 
 

also remember that smaller objectives means that you almost always have to fight to take an objective. I won’t be able to sneak 10 gitz on the far side of an objective to take it from hearthguard. I’ll have to fight them off most of the time. 
 

also, a lot of these shooting units we are so scared off can’t shoot in combat. So even if you do get shot for two turns, if you get in you aren’t getting shot again. This will really limit the ability to have mostly shooting armies in the game. 
 

I think some of these rules will really change how we theorycraft these warscrolls. 

I certainly don't want to be unnecessarily doomsaying here, but O think their low mobility and saves will be the main challenges for Fyreslayers from what we have seen. I think they can overcome them, too. The OPG abilities and synergies we have already seen are strong.

However, I will defend 2 rounds of shooting as realistic against slow armies. It matches my experience. One round of pure approach, then one when they get into your screen. Plus potentially the new Covering Fire this edition. I feel like fast melee might be s Problem, too. We will see how much the new terrain changes that. Like I said initially, I find it hard to judge in a vacuum.

42 minutes ago, ScionOfOssia said:

Plus “They get shot to bits!”. By who exactly? There’s like 3.5 good shooting factions in AoS, 4.5 if we include Kruleboyz, and they’ve got the tools to deal with them. Gunline armies aren’t nearly as much of a thing as people believe. 

There are always enough of them out there so that slow melee is not totally free, I'll say that much.

[Satyrical Sophist]

Having rules match look makes a lot of sense. Definitely some corner cases. Like Blight Kings. Model wise, what save do you give them? The unit varies in how armoured they are so much, from full plate, to some of them basically just wearing ripped trousers and shoulder pads. 

I kind of want to have a look at all the revealed scrolls and have a go working out expected output Vs various saves. We don't have that much but we do have some. So a full round of thunderers shooting without any extra buffs does an expected 6 and 2/3 one rend wounds. So that would expect to pick up 2.2 hearthguard who are benefitting from the hero ward. Which is a fair bit admittedly, but half that shooting is 10 inch range. A frigate would also pick up 2. Weirdly Arkanauts pick up the most, killing 2.3. Speaking of which, Arkanauts look interesting again, only 4s and 4s, but assuming the spear head rule is right (it's a copy from the 3rd one as well) then they get plus one to hit while contesting objectives and each model has 2 shots in both melee and combat. 

[woolf]

Also ofc impossible to know at this stage how things will shake out, with lower dmg/rend overall in the game, wound density should go up relative to armour save. Also getting rid of battleshock run aways will likely help a bit there, so maybe a 5+ or 6+ save with point efficient wounds won't be too bad

[Fellman]

Fyerqueen confirmed new model is coming?