MitGas Posted July 13 Author Share Posted July 13 26 minutes ago, Big Kim Woof-Woof said: I know it's totally against the grain of AoS, but going old-school and having 'magic item' options that cost points would be kinda good, I think. Just one or two optional upgrades for Greater Daemons and their ilk. That way the points cost of individual items can be fine-tuned in updates, just like the points cost of units. They don‘t seem to understand that people want very simple basic rules but lots of options for customization of the armies to make them theirs. It‘s fun to give your stuff personality. Names, equipment, etc., the narrative aspect is part of the fun, even in streamlined, competitive games! 7 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ejecutor Posted July 13 Share Posted July 13 1 hour ago, MitGas said: They don‘t seem to understand that people want very simple basic rules but lots of options for customization of the armies to make them theirs. It‘s fun to give your stuff personality. Names, equipment, etc., the narrative aspect is part of the fun, even in streamlined, competitive games! Maybe the basic rules shouldn't include those customisable options, but the advanced ones should. That way you have covered both kinds of players, and even better, with the new modules system just make it a module so whoever wants can put it in or out. Problem sorted. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitGas Posted July 13 Author Share Posted July 13 4 minutes ago, Ejecutor said: Maybe the basic rules shouldn't include those customisable options, but the advanced ones should. That way you have covered both kinds of players, and even better, with the new modules system just make it a module so whoever wants can put it in or out. Problem sorted. Yeah, would be a great way to go about it! 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Arthur Hotep Posted July 13 Share Posted July 13 4 hours ago, MitGas said: They don‘t seem to understand that people want very simple basic rules but lots of options for customization of the armies to make them theirs. It‘s fun to give your stuff personality. Names, equipment, etc., the narrative aspect is part of the fun, even in streamlined, competitive games! *some people 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitGas Posted July 13 Author Share Posted July 13 23 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said: *some people *most people! 😤 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brocktoon Posted July 13 Share Posted July 13 4 hours ago, Ejecutor said: Maybe the basic rules shouldn't include those customisable options, but the advanced ones should. That way you have covered both kinds of players, and even better, with the new modules system just make it a module so whoever wants can put it in or out. Problem sorted. This is the fundamental issue GW have. I don't think they make "bad" rules because they hate writing rules. I think their status as a near monopoly in minis wargaming (and functionally a monopoly in the fantasy/sci-fi spaces) means they have to satisfy everyone. Newbies, grognards, narrative, competitive, simple, complex. That's a tall order that I think anyone would struggle with. Hence my interest in how HH and TOW (and N17, AT etc) are designed as satisfying the complexity crowd while 40k 10e is extremely stripped down in comparison to even 9e. And I don't mean re: 40k at the cognitive load level, which is good, but at the psychic powers, equipment, and such level. Then THAT design split is what has me wondering if AoS 4e's very good design chassis sticks with similarly stripped down battletomes, which is a worry. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitGas Posted July 13 Author Share Posted July 13 47 minutes ago, brocktoon said: This is the fundamental issue GW have. I don't think they make "bad" rules because they hate writing rules. I think their status as a near monopoly in minis wargaming (and functionally a monopoly in the fantasy/sci-fi spaces) means they have to satisfy everyone. Newbies, grognards, narrative, competitive, simple, complex. That's a tall order that I think anyone would struggle with. Hence my interest in how HH and TOW (and N17, AT etc) are designed as satisfying the complexity crowd while 40k 10e is extremely stripped down in comparison to even 9e. And I don't mean re: 40k at the cognitive load level, which is good, but at the psychic powers, equipment, and such level. Then THAT design split is what has me wondering if AoS 4e's very good design chassis sticks with similarly stripped down battletomes, which is a worry. I dunno, AoS 4th still got some of the more complex stuff, only the warscrolls and army abilities became much simpler. I don‘t think either of those were really problematic to begin with though (some things were absolutely bloated but everyone understood those at least). What I find GW is often bad at is wording - quite often more advanced things from the core rules aren‘t 100% clear to people, at least from my experience and that‘s what makes it „bad“. E.g. the KillTeam rules. Those were written in a way that they‘re confusing, I haven‘t come across a worse set of rules to understand in any other system. I think it sucks that everyone tells me that other systems got way better rules all the frikkin time but I believe them since all of them claim so, so I guess there has to be some truth to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommissarRotke Posted July 13 Share Posted July 13 8 hours ago, Big Kim Woof-Woof said: I know it's totally against the grain of AoS, i dont think its totally against the grain and am actually expecting an "item/artifact module" or whatever that gives us more itemization Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimrock Posted July 13 Share Posted July 13 5 hours ago, Ejecutor said: Maybe the basic rules shouldn't include those customisable options, but the advanced ones should. That way you have covered both kinds of players, and even better, with the new modules system just make it a module so whoever wants can put it in or out. Problem sorted. Actually the module system could be really great at blurring those lines between narrative and matched play. They've been separated for so long and I've never seen anyone play narrative at the local group, but if they came out with a narrative campaign that had some really fun modules people might just use them in their standard games without overthinking the narrative vs matched play thing. Like a module for fortifications that has rules for how to integrate defensive positions and forts and really improves how terrain is used. Or a module that adds re-adds summoning but gives some interesting balance mechanic if you don't have it. As long as they're roughly balanced and well thought out it could be really beneficial to the game. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michu Posted July 13 Share Posted July 13 Honestly, I think the module part of AoS 4 will end up in the "underutilized ideas" pile. It could help with Narrative, but will be used only for Matched Play 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon-knight77 Posted July 13 Share Posted July 13 did a little bullet list of the first section of the Core Rulebook lore if anyone want to read it and i take any question from the lore section if anyone ask 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beliman Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 Remember that AoS already had extensive tables of artifacts for each realm, mount traits and even one army had some a few banners for each unit. Even a system to take mote than one artifact. Path to Glory had some variants of "veteran scars" and special treasures. I mean, AoS already had most of the customization options that we talk here. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bosskelot Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 Wait, where are the rules for the generic Endless Spells? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boingrot Bouncer Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 4 hours ago, Bosskelot said: Wait, where are the rules for the generic Endless Spells? GHB I believe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vasshpit Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 @Dragon-knight77 Whats going down with the green boyz? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon-knight77 Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 31 minutes ago, Vasshpit said: @Dragon-knight77 Whats going down with the green boyz? Orkz sadly only got the general overview of thier lore; the subculture from Ironjawz and Kruleboyz, they're desire to fight, Gork & Mork, them in the era of the beast. The Hour of Ruin is like bearly even mention in the section with only mention once and it the Kruleboyz perfecting their ruses cause "they cannot be outdone by mere Skaven" that it only thing really to note is that there apparently different effects the Waaag! magic have on the different Ork type. When the Waaag! is coursing through an ork mind and soul Ironjazw get a single minded urge to hunt and beat their foe Bonesplitterz (yes the only mention it one more the beastmen) get affinity of sorcerery Kruleboyz get their mind shardened with cunning ideas Gloomspite This one is interesting because they're mentioning all the cultures; Moonclan, Gitmob, Spiderfang & Troggothherd Hour of Ruin has cause massive problem for the Gloomspite as skaven are flooding the lurklairs despite their attempt to make it inhospitable. There mention of different breeds of arachnids the spider rides to war along with the Arachnarok Gitmobs are said to be proficient in fighting in rolling plains as well as the lurklairs because of their snarfangs Troll are known for their rock-hard skin & stupidity 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitGas Posted July 14 Author Share Posted July 14 2 minutes ago, Dragon-knight77 said: Trolls are known for their rock-hard skin & stupidity I‘ve got very soft skin, that‘s a blatant lie! 😎👍 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ejecutor Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 1 hour ago, Dragon-knight77 said: Orkz sadly only got the general overview of thier lore; the subculture from Ironjawz and Kruleboyz, they're desire to fight, Gork & Mork, them in the era of the beast. The Hour of Ruin is like bearly even mention in the section with only mention once and it the Kruleboyz perfecting their ruses cause "they cannot be outdone by mere Skaven" that it only thing really to note is that there apparently different effects the Waaag! magic have on the different Ork type. When the Waaag! is coursing through an ork mind and soul Ironjazw get a single minded urge to hunt and beat their foe Bonesplitterz (yes the only mention it one more the beastmen) get affinity of sorcerery Kruleboyz get their mind shardened with cunning ideas Gloomspite This one is interesting because they're mentioning all the cultures; Moonclan, Gitmob, Spiderfang & Troggothherd Hour of Ruin has cause massive problem for the Gloomspite as skaven are flooding the lurklairs despite their attempt to make it inhospitable. There mention of different breeds of arachnids the spider rides to war along with the Arachnarok Gitmobs are said to be proficient in fighting in rolling plains as well as the lurklairs because of their snarfangs Troll are known for their rock-hard skin & stupidity Uhhh. Interesting the Gitmob mention. I think between this and the RE we will see a solid Gitmob wave. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bosskelot Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 3 hours ago, Boingrot Bouncer said: GHB I believe Don't see it on the cards from Skaventide Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Kim Woof-Woof Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 19 hours ago, Boingrot Bouncer said: GHB I believe Typical. I knew they'd put something in the Handbook to make it a necessary purchase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Arthur Hotep Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 22 minutes ago, Big Kim Woof-Woof said: Typical. I knew they'd put something in the Handbook to make it a necessary purchase. Let's hope they are on the app. Not that it matters anyway, they warscrolls were online even before the faction packs were. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Kim Woof-Woof Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 14 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said: Not that it matters anyway, they warscrolls were online even before the faction packs were. I must have comprehensively missed that. I bet I'll use my faction's Manifestations most of the time, anyway. They might not be the most powerful thing going, but they look awesome! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Arthur Hotep Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 1 minute ago, Big Kim Woof-Woof said: I must have comprehensively missed that. I bet I'll use my faction's Manifestations most of the time, anyway. They might not be the most powerful thing going, but they look awesome! I want to post about this in the strategy thread later too, but IMO a lot of lists will not need to bring Manifestations at all. They are useful, but are usually pretty hard to cast and a lot of factions will struggle to bring a lot of wizards due to the new list building rules. I don't think you are majorly handicapping yourself by just casting your lore spells. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PraetorDragoon Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 Manifestations seem to be prime targets to cast in your opponents hero phase with that command. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acrozatarim Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 55 minutes ago, Big Kim Woof-Woof said: Typical. I knew they'd put something in the Handbook to make it a necessary purchase. They'll almost certainly be free online as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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