General Chat Thread

[RetconnedLegion]

The Regiment system is how Warhammer should have gone for army building since 5th Edition WHFB. They introduced it in the Chaos rules box, unlike the percentage based system of the time, you chose a hero then had to pick a retinue of equal value or more. 
 

I’ve always said that was the direction to go, the pseudo aping of 40ks FOC was a mistake in WHFB and I wasn’t a fan of the formations of last edition.

It’s what I like most about the new edition. What I really don’t like is the rules section of the app. It’s a nightmare to use, everything is all over the place.

[Big Kim Woof-Woof]

13 hours ago, RetconnedLegion said:

The Regiment system is how Warhammer should have gone for army building since 5th Edition WHFB. They introduced it in the Chaos rules box, unlike the percentage based system of the time, you chose a hero then had to pick a retinue of equal value or more. 

Oh yeah, I knew it reminded me of something! That was when I really started playing Chaos. I really liked that structure. 

[Beliman]

First games played.

It's not that diferent from 3rd edition but it's a lot easier to understand. Everything being an ability is just perfect, a lot of discussions were solved just reading the ability and doing what it was written (some players came from 40k).

Sadly, my Kharadron Overlords have 2 big problems:

1) They cost too much. I know that all armies cost "too much",  but KOs have a 300p and 500p tax to play and that's basically what ruins the game (note: one player asked me if my list was 1000p, instead of 2000p). Take in mind that we had an Slaves to Darkness player with Be'lakor and one unit of Varanguard with at least 15 more miniatures than my army. And I still think that Gunhaulers should carry 2 units with a max of 6 models.

2) Tools to play. KOs are awesome in what they do (basically, everything about movement like Redeploy, Run, Reatrear, Power Through,...). But that's all. I had the awesome opportunity to play with a fantastic Soulblight player, and basically, summon, ressurect, wards, magic and Manifestations. For every redeploy, counter-charge or covering-fire I made, he had an answer. Being an army without manifestations, spells, prayers, terrain and battle traits that only affect our "mandatory tax", it feels weird that we have the same number of artefacts or heroic traits as any other army.

Don't get me wrong, it was a blast to play and I'm going to attend a mini-tournament in 2 weeks. The game feels refreshing and even if we are still learning, it feels great. Imho, there are still some things that need to be polished, but nothing big that can't be rewritten on the first patch.

Edited July 22 by Beliman

[Big Kim Woof-Woof]

I've got my first game of the new edition coming up this week. Who's it against? Lumineth. Urgh. 

[Ejecutor]

1 hour ago, Beliman said:

First games played.

It's not that diferent from 3rd edition but it's a lot easier to understand. Everything being an ability is just perfect, a lot of discussions were solved just reading the ability and doing what it was written (some players came from 40k).

Sadly, my Kharadron Overlords have 2 big problems:

1) They cost too much. I know that all armies cost "too much",  but KOs have a 300p and 500p tax to play and that's basically what ruins the game (note: one player asked me if my list was 1000p, instead of 2000p). Take in mind that we had an Slaves to Darkness player with Be'lakor and one unit of Varanguard with at least 15 more miniatures than my army. And I still think that Gunhaulers should carry 2 units with a max of 6 models.

2) Tools to play. KOs are awesome in what they do (basically, everything about movement like Redeploy, Run, Reatrear, Power Through,...). But that's all. I had the awesome opportunity to play with a fantastic Soulblight player, and basically, summon, ressurect, wards, magic and Manifestations. For every redeploy, counter-charge or covering-fire I made, he had an answer. Being an army without manifestations, spells, prayers, terrain and battle traits that only affect our "mandatory tax", it feels weird thay we have the same number of artefacts or heroic traits as all other armies.

Don't get me wrong, it was a blast to play and I'm going to attend a mini-tournament in 2 weeks. The game feels refreshing and even if we are still learning, it feels great. Imho, there are still some things that need to be polished, but nothing big that can't be rewritten on the first patch.

For point 1, as far as I've heard, S2D are just ridiculously pointed for their strong profiles.

For 2, hopefully all gets sorted when KO (and other factions with the same problems) get more stuff in their BTs. GW just need to released them earlier.

[Ejecutor]

21 minutes ago, Big Kim Woof-Woof said:

I've got my first game of the new edition coming up this week. Who's it against? Lumineth. Urgh. 

Good luck playing against Mitgas.

[Beliman]

18 minutes ago, Ejecutor said:

For point 1, as far as I've heard, S2D are just ridiculously pointed for their strong profiles.

That's exactly the problem. Slaves2darkness pay too much for their quality profiles. KO have a tax that makes them more expensive than S2D, but without the quality profiles (and magic, and manifestations, and prayers, and terrain,... but that's point 2).

[Ejecutor]

7 minutes ago, Beliman said:

That's exactly the problem. Slaves2darkness pay too much for their quality profiles. KO have a tax that makes them more expensive than S2D, but without the quality profiles (and magic, and manifestations, and prayers, and terrain,... but that's point 2).

When I said ridiculously I meant ridiculously low 😅

[MitGas]

6 hours ago, Ejecutor said:

Good luck playing against Mitgas.

Yes, I‘ve switched sides… killing those pesky Luuuumineth is more efficient if you play them and make sure they die in droves to the opposed armies! 
 

Slaanesh armies need all the help they can get right now anyways. Plus it fills me with glee knowing that the Lumineth would prefer literally any other fate. 🥳

Edited July 21 by MitGas

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

On 7/21/2024 at 9:42 AM, Beliman said:

1) They cost too much. I know that all armies cost "too much",  but KOs have a 300p and 500p tax to play and that's basically what ruins the game (note: one player asked me if my list was 1000p, instead of 2000p). Take in mind that we had an Slaves to Darkness player with Be'lakor and one unit of Varanguard with at least 15 more miniatures than my army. And I still think that Gunhaulers should carry 2 units with a max of 6 models.

Some of the point values are definitely unexpected in the indexes. I want to play a few games before I claim anything needs to drop, but I am certainly feeling the points crunch, especially on big models. Cavalry seems comparatively cheap for their generally high wounds and saves, and shooting in general seems worse in terms of range and damage output but also relatively more expensive than before.

I guess all three of these trends hit KO. But since they are points issues, they are likely to be fixed over time. I hope the core KO experience is good enough that they are fun and competitive with the right points.

 

[Beliman]

1 hour ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

I guess all three of these trends hit KO. But since they are points issues, they are likely to be fixed over time.

I would like to add another one: Skyvessels

[Ganigumo]

Played in a 1 day event over the weekend and got my first games in. So far I like it way more than 3rd. I can't say I love battle tactics, but this is probably the best form of the system. Endless spells are a problem right now though, like a huge one. I don't want to wait until december for some changes to it, it doesn't feel like they were playtested well. New coherency sucks, like really badly. 40mm guys can't line up in ranks, since you'll lose models as soon as you pull someone from the ends.

I ended up going 2-3 with kruleboyz (who feel incredibly strong now). Wins vs Khorne and Stormcast, and a loss to a friend playing nurgle (He was struggling with all the new rules and I may have forgotten to help myself when helping him, also failed 3 2+ rolls for the sludgeraker buff and a ton of dirty tricks. But I think nurgle is a tough matchup even if I hadn't failed the rolls). Lots of players at the event that had 0 games with the new edition.

Stormcast game had the killbow do incredible work vs krondys and ionus. I thought I was done for after 12 annihilators charged me t1 and deleted my 40 gutrippaz and sludgeraker, but the killbow and endless spells let me dig myself out of the hole. Was very close on points all game though.

Khorne game I used shackles to deny his t1 seize the center by movement blocking, and managed to destroy the unit of 40 bloodletters in a single combat. by the end of t3(time) I had cleaned up pretty much everything except his 6 block of bloodcrushers but only won by 2 points.

I'm looking forward to playing more of the edition, and trying some more of my armies. 

[Painbringer]

9 hours ago, Ganigumo said:

Played in a 1 day event over the weekend and got my first games in. So far I like it way more than 3rd. I can't say I love battle tactics, but this is probably the best form of the system. Endless spells are a problem right now though, like a huge one. I don't want to wait until december for some changes to it, it doesn't feel like they were playtested well. New coherency sucks, like really badly. 40mm guys can't line up in ranks, since you'll lose models as soon as you pull someone from the ends.

I ended up going 2-3 with kruleboyz (who feel incredibly strong now). Wins vs Khorne and Stormcast, and a loss to a friend playing nurgle (He was struggling with all the new rules and I may have forgotten to help myself when helping him, also failed 3 2+ rolls for the sludgeraker buff and a ton of dirty tricks. But I think nurgle is a tough matchup even if I hadn't failed the rolls). Lots of players at the event that had 0 games with the new edition.

Stormcast game had the killbow do incredible work vs krondys and ionus. I thought I was done for after 12 annihilators charged me t1 and deleted my 40 gutrippaz and sludgeraker, but the killbow and endless spells let me dig myself out of the hole. Was very close on points all game though.

Khorne game I used shackles to deny his t1 seize the center by movement blocking, and managed to destroy the unit of 40 bloodletters in a single combat. by the end of t3(time) I had cleaned up pretty much everything except his 6 block of bloodcrushers but only won by 2 points.

I'm looking forward to playing more of the edition, and trying some more of my armies. 

Can you please provide some more information on what you think is wrong with the endless spells right now? 

Also, that Khorne player with a unit of 40 Bloodletters - no unit can be reinforced that many times, only once. Maybe it was two reinforced units of 20 Bloodletters each? 

Edited July 22 by Painbringer

[Acrozatarim]

Got my first game of 4th in yesterday, 1500pts of Skaven vs Slaves to Darkness. Very impressed with the new edition - it runs smoothly and, crucially, sensibly in most ways. The last time I played 40k in 10th, I was just finding the mental load of everything I needed to handle was getting too much, whereas AoS 4th felt like a pleasant and stress-free experience by comparison.

Endless spells definitely seem strong; they weren't oppressive in our match, but I can see how they may get that way with certain armies. I expect we'll see them get reined in somewhat in the first balance pass.

[Flippy]

8 hours ago, Painbringer said:

Can you please provide some more information on what you think is wrong with the endless spells right now? 

I haven't played a game yet, but this summary from Seraphon reddit seems accurate.

[Chikout]

Finally got my Warhammer plus mini after weeks of wrangling with Japanese customer support and it’s the wrong ******* one. 
 

I’m slightly tempted to keep it as I haven’t painted a 40k model for about 10 years, but I do like the Vampire a lot more. 

 

Regarding endless spells, I’m really curious to see what they change to balance endless spells. There are lots of different ways they could adjust things. Not allowing them to summoned with a counter spell is one. They could also play around with casting values. An extreme option would be to say that if an endless spell is destroyed rather than banished, it can’t be summoned again. 

[Ejecutor]

15 minutes ago, Chikout said:

Finally got my Warhammer plus mini after weeks of wrangling with Japanese customer support and it’s the wrong ******* one. 
 

I’m slightly tempted to keep it as I haven’t painted a 40k model for about 10 years, but I do like the Vampire a lot more. 

 

Regarding endless spells, I’m really curious to see what they change to balance endless spells. There are lots of different ways they could adjust things. Not allowing them to summoned with a counter spell is one. They could also play around with casting values. An extreme option would be to say that if an endless spell is destroyed rather than banished, it can’t be summoned again. 

Complaint again and you will probably keep both.

[Big Kim Woof-Woof]

53 minutes ago, Flippy said:

I haven't played a game yet, but this summary from Seraphon reddit seems accurate.

That kinda confirms a slight worry that I had... that Endless Spells do just become a way of plonking an extra unit down on the battlefield for free. That, to me, is a bit dull. I've not liked the idea of Spells fighting in combat from the moment they announced the changes. Ah well. I'm eager to have a play with my faction's ones, nevertheless! 

[Ejecutor]

1 minute ago, Big Kim Woof-Woof said:

That kinda confirms a slight worry that I had... that Endless Spells do just become a way of plonking an extra unit down on the battlefield for free. That, to me, is a bit dull. I've not liked the idea of Spells fighting in combat from the moment they announced the changes. Ah well. I'm eager to have a play with my faction's ones, nevertheless! 

I think they just need to put back some cost on them. It will help fill some formation gaps and will be easier to balance.

[Grungnisson]

1 hour ago, Chikout said:

Finally got my Warhammer plus mini after weeks of wrangling with Japanese customer support and it’s the wrong ******* one. 

 

#NotSorryAtAll

Edited July 23 by Grungnisson

[PraetorDragoon]

3 minutes ago, Grungnisson said:

 

#NotSorryAtAll

It's the wrong trousers Gromit! And they've gone wrong!

[Big Kim Woof-Woof]

1 hour ago, Ejecutor said:

I think they just need to put back some cost on them. It will help fill some formation gaps and will be easier to balance.

I reckon that's likely to happen in the future. 

[Ejecutor]

@MitGas, maybe something Tzeentchian?

[Grungnisson]

7 minutes ago, Ejecutor said:

@MitGas, maybe something Tzeentchian?

That's the Steel Rook, when he takes the armour off.

[Ganigumo]

13 hours ago, Painbringer said:

Can you please provide some more information on what you think is wrong with the endless spells right now? 

Also, that Khorne player with a unit of 40 Bloodletters - no unit can be reinforced that many times, only once. Maybe it was two reinforced units of 20 Bloodletters each? 

Sorry it was 20, I was thinking 40 wounds.

Issues with endless spells:

• A wizard can cast any number a turn (up to their power level), which makes casters with multiple spells incredibly powerful
• Each wizard can only banish one manifestation per battle round
• Heroes are taxed incredibly heavily this edition due to regiments, and a lot of armies can't afford to bring many wizards
• Unbinding bonuses are incredibly rare, so even with casting bonuses being mostly limited its very difficult to shut them down with unbinds.
• You don't get an opportunity to banish an invocation cast in your turn, since your opponent uses the command after you have the opportunity to banish any invocations
• Endless spells are large and incredibly good at blocking space. Shackles is an 18" range that can be placed within 9", gravetide/palisade/jaws are huge, etc. You basically get to summon free chaff
• On top of being nigh busted in terms of space control they actually do useful stuff, and some do good damage
• They're not durable, but your screens and other small utility units will actually struggle to destroy one in combat.