General Chat Thread

[MitGas]

23 minutes ago, Vasshpit said:

And now the hands of his greatest avatars sit atop Gorkamorkas's krulest shaman's staves bound by sheer orruk will...

Sucka...

😜😁

I can‘t even really reply to that cause I got no idea what the lore is, sorry. But whatever it is, it‘s surely totally wrong and I‘d write a long post why Tzeentch is the only god worth simping for! 

Edited August 2 by MitGas

[MitGas]

47 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

If Manifestations stopped existing for everyone, magic would probably be in a similar place as 3rd edition (excluding the Andtor season). I think there would be some armies that go hard on magic and make it part of their game plan, but also some that only run one wizard or a non-wizard unbinder. One equalising factor would be that mega-casters don't dominate quite as hard this edition, since they cast bonuses are lower and there are few unbind bonuses, so even a small wizard has a chance to get a spell through against Nagash or Kroak.

The Tzeentch spells are pretty weak compared to what they used to be, so that‘s what makes me think it should be fairer/easier for the opponent than it used to be. Then again there has always been a huge tax on our heroes for those… 🤔

 

Either way, it sounds like GW needs to fix manifestations first and then it will be a lot better.

[Vasshpit]

@MitGas I'm no foolish follower of the dark ones so have no idea but at what point was, in your opinion, the best time period of in game representation pertaining to Tah-zeentch's magical prowess?

[MitGas]

16 minutes ago, Vasshpit said:

@MitGas I'm no foolish follower of the dark ones so have no idea but at what point was, in your opinion, the best time period of in game representation pertaining to Tah-zeentch's magical prowess?

Hmmm, not sure I‘d go with AoS for best representation of what a mighty lord of Tzeentch should be like ingame. I did like the WHFB portrayal for them in earlier editions, where they were deadly combatants AND great sorcerers, as befots champions of the one true Chaos god! 😈

If we talk about Tzeentch in AoS, I think the spells were better in all three previous editions but I take it that applies to everyone, so it‘s a moot point. I guess that 2nd edition was our highest peak but its constant horror spam made it no fun for any opponent.

Note: I only fielded a single horror unit in my games, if any. I like mixed forces, not spamming the same things. That‘s why I actively complain so much about no Chaos warriors anymore (they sucked in 2nd). 🫶 

[Gailon]

On 8/2/2024 at 10:01 AM, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

If Manifestations stopped existing for everyone, magic would probably be in a similar place as 3rd edition (excluding the Andtor season). I think there would be some armies that go hard on magic and make it part of their game plan, but also some that only run one wizard or a non-wizard unbinder. One equalising factor would be that mega-casters don't dominate quite as hard this edition, since they cast bonuses are lower and there are few unbind bonuses, so even a small wizard has a chance to get a spell through against Nagash or Kroak.

Multi cast wizards would run out of spells more often, especially without mystic shield. Spells have shorter range and some armies just don’t have spells they can cast until the enemy is close. 
 

one issue here is that some wizards are currently balanced around manifestations. For example, take manifestations away and the Slann is immediately pretty bad. 

[Starfyre]

Played my first two games of 4th edition yesterday. 1K points and we played the Border War scenario both times.

I played 2 variants of a BoK Daemon list versus CoS and then DoK.

My thoughts:

• It's a lot faster and cleaner - the 3-4 page summary in the back of the GHB is excellent and really helps the flow of the game
• It felt less bloody
• My foot heroes (a bloodmaster and Skulltaker) felt powerful in attack compared to my units
• I used a Bloodthirster in the 2nd game and rolled badly, failing a 4" with a re-roll and only landed one hit the entire game which failed to kill anything - therefore based on my 1 game experience I can say they're obviously significantly overcosted and/or pillow-fisted. (That's a joke).
• We didn't used endless spells in the first game but the DoK player used judgements which acted as I've seen reported here in this thread - they got in the way and blocked off charge lanes, and then took an inordinate amount of effort to bring down. Had we carried on the game, my opponent would have just re-summoned the bloodwrack viper in their next turn and I'd have had to do it all again, all whilst it was attacking and degrading the units that had killed it in the first place. I don't think points is the answer. I think one-use per game is and reduce power level if there's an active manifestation to represent the focus required to keep it on the battlefield
• Prayers - it took me a little while to get my head around this, I'm still not 100% sure I'm doing it right. Although I can see what they are trying to do, given how simple everything else is, it seems complicated in comparison.
• Both games I took an early lead in scoring and by turn 3, the opponent had so little left they couldn't catch up so conceded
• The app layout isn't optimal. I didn't use it but my opponent's did and the number of dropdowns and hidden information is excessive. The CoS player completely missed their battle traits so ended up not playing with orders because they didn't realise they were there. Both players missed setting a formation, which I checked before the game and talked them through it
• Fast units are invaluable, even more so if they have a high armour save 
• From a strategy POV, I think leaning into high save/high wound units are going to be better than horde style units. Damage didn't seem that prevalent in the games we played and having stuff on the table to deal damage was important
• Naturally forgot the Underdog bonuses
• My opponent's liked the fact that battleshock had gone. I actually missed it, because it removes a set of tactics from the game. I'd like to see a terror-themed army that perhaps has a battleshock-style ability as a faction trait
• Conversely, my opponent's didn't enjoy counter-charge or power through, but I think that's more because they hadn't read the rules properly and weren't anticipating it. Twice I ended up in a combat where there was one 1-wound model who survived the previous fight and used Power Through to kill it, which my opponent didn't love
• Doomfire Warlocks tanked my Bloodcrushers and dished out some decent damage to them. They were the surprise unit of the game!

Overall it felt stripped back and cleaner, but I felt my choices were more restrictive and there was a lot less I could do in my turn. A lot of the fun rules as to why I chose BoK as a faction in the first place were gone - I missed bloodbind and killer instinct, and summoning. I didn't take a slaughterpriest because I have a daemon army, and lose out on the blood sacrifice ability as a result. It felt a bit basic in comparison. What was nice though was we got 2 games in whereas before we'd play 1 and feel mentally exhausted so maybe that's the trade-off.

Was it as a fun though? I actually didn't think so. There's a lot on admin that's better, but it'll be interesting to see if the battletomes bring back some of the fun and depth for playing a specific faction because I felt like I'd lost a lot of the flavour that lead me to playing this faction in the first place.

[Asbestress]

Does anyone have an image of the AoS ogors (Tyrant, Bloodpelt, Gorgers) next to each other and/or some old ogres?
I want to get an idea of how the size has changed for some conversions, but I only have the Gluttons kit.

[Neverchosen]

Odd question but do old terrain sets ever return or are they retired for good.  For example might the Sigmarite Mausoleum or Dominion of Sigmar sets return?
 

[Ejecutor]

2 minutes ago, Neverchosen said:

Odd question but do old terrain sets ever return or are they retired for good.  For example might the Sigmarite Mausoleum or Dominion of Sigmar sets return?
 

We haven't had a terrain set returned for AoS so far, but they did for 40k.

[Grimrock]

Just now, Neverchosen said:

Odd question but do old terrain sets ever return or are they retired for good.  For example might the Sigmarite Mausoleum or Dominion of Sigmar sets return?
 

I've definitely seen some 40k ones go away and come back (pretty sure the crates were temporarily retired at some point?) but they're usually significantly more expensive the second time around. I'm still kicking myself for missing out on a bunch of those warcry terrain runs though, hopefully if they do show up again they'll have a bundle deal or something.

[Mutton]

On 8/5/2024 at 7:02 AM, Starfyre said:

My opponent's liked the fact that battleshock had gone. I actually missed it, because it removes a set of tactics from the game.

Truly the words of someone who plays Daemons or Death.

[Starfyre]

11 hours ago, Mutton said:

Truly the words of someone who plays Daemons or Death.

As the owner of both a BoK daemon army and Nighthaunt, I dunno what you mean 🫢

[Starfyre]

I always appreciate the effort Goonhammer goes through putting together their competitive innovations blogs. Whilst I don't always like the tone or approach to some of their articles, I read these every week. 

The latest one is interesting, with Mawtribes winning both of the tournaments that were featured. 

What's also interesting is the mix of armies as well, lots of different factions are featured.

The other thing that's caught my eye is that there was a lot of noise about how good Chaos Knights are, yet the army doesn't feature that heavily in any of the last 3 articles. 

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

14 hours ago, Starfyre said:

I always appreciate the effort Goonhammer goes through putting together their competitive innovations blogs. Whilst I don't always like the tone or approach to some of their articles, I read these every week. 

The latest one is interesting, with Mawtribes winning both of the tournaments that were featured. 

What's also interesting is the mix of armies as well, lots of different factions are featured.

The other thing that's caught my eye is that there was a lot of noise about how good Chaos Knights are, yet the army doesn't feature that heavily in any of the last 3 articles. 

That mixed Ogor list is very interesting. I know the Gutbuster side has a lot of really efficient warscrolls, but it is nice that someone found a way to make use of the Beastclaw Raiders models, too.

Results like these really make me think that there is still a lot of exploration and meta development needed before we can really say which factions and units are the best.

[Greyshadow]

On 8/7/2024 at 5:08 AM, Neverchosen said:

Odd question but do old terrain sets ever return or are they retired for good.  For example might the Sigmarite Mausoleum or Dominion of Sigmar sets return?
 

The only one I can think of was the re-release of Warscryer Citadel, (was called Skullvane Manse on its first release). Not impossible but re-releases are at best very rare. If there is something you really want, I’d grab it while you can.

[Ejecutor]

43 minutes ago, Greyshadow said:

The only one I can think of was the re-release of Warscryer Citadel, (was called Skullvane Manse on its first release). Not impossible but re-releases are at best very rare. If there is something you really want, I’d grab it while you can.

But do you mean a re-release of an old WHFB kid into AoS, right? Or was it a second release for an AoS kit?

[Neverchosen]

On 8/6/2024 at 3:11 PM, Ejecutor said:

We haven't had a terrain set returned for AoS so far, but they did for 40k.

 

On 8/6/2024 at 3:11 PM, Grimrock said:

I've definitely seen some 40k ones go away and come back (pretty sure the crates were temporarily retired at some point?) but they're usually significantly more expensive the second time around. I'm still kicking myself for missing out on a bunch of those warcry terrain runs though, hopefully if they do show up again they'll have a bundle deal or something.

 

On 8/8/2024 at 7:55 AM, Greyshadow said:

The only one I can think of was the re-release of Warscryer Citadel, (was called Skullvane Manse on its first release). Not impossible but re-releases are at best very rare. If there is something you really want, I’d grab it while you can.

I just saw a pretty cool announcement that they will be revisiting some Old World Terrain. It is funny the question wasn't for myself but a friend that was interested in the current Warcry terrain but in a difficult financial situation and he was curious if it would ever return.

But now I am just excited to add either a Watchtower or a Sigmarite Chapel as a "centre piece" to my little City Terrain village. As with all Games Workshop products, cost permitting of course.

Edited August 9 by Neverchosen

[Ejecutor]

44 minutes ago, Neverchosen said:

 

 

I just saw a pretty cool announcement that they will be revisiting some Old World Terrain. It is funny the question wasn't for myself but a friend that was interested in the current Warcry terrain but in a difficult financial situation and he was curious if it would ever return.

But now I am just excited to add either a Watchtower or a Sigmarite Chapel as a "centre piece" to my little City Terrain village. As with all Games Workshop products, cost permitting of course.

Bear in mind they are noticeably smaller in comparison with some AoS terrain.

Also, about the Warcy scenery, maybe you can still find in second-hand places the Mortal Real issues. You could get some bits from there.

[Grimrock]

Had my first proper 2k game of 4.0 last night. Playing a smattering of Nurgle with the Glottkin vs. S2D with Be'Lakor. The game felt pretty crisp and clear and any rules questions were cleared up pretty quickly (sort of anyway, the rules are good but the app is a bit of a nightmare to navigate when you want to find specific sections and trying to load a PDF on a phone takes an absolute eternity). We were both still figuring our armies out and made some mistakes but it ended in a draw so it was a nice close game.

He took the S2D endless spells and I had primal energy. He used magical intervention to drop a realmscourge rupture and block off a big area first turn preventing some disease shenanigans and almost denying me a battle tactic. Later in the game he re-summoned the rupture and used it to tie a unit up guaranteeing he got seize the center. On my side I tried for endless spells pretty much all game but with no casting bonuses I only got off two when I spiked the casting rolls. One was Ravenaks which hit like an absolute truck finishing off a couple units in combat and tying up some varanguard for a while. The other was the lifeswarm which healed my lord of blights to prevent him from dying in combat the next turn. Overall the spells didn't feel too bad but they definitely had a big impact. If he had taken Morbid Conguration instead of his faction spells I think it would have been a much different story with his 4 casts and access to +1 to cast with the faction terrain. 

[Neverchosen]

1 hour ago, Ejecutor said:

Bear in mind they are noticeably smaller in comparison with some AoS terrain.

Also, about the Warcy scenery, maybe you can still find in second-hand places the Mortal Real issues. You could get some bits from there.

Considering that the village terrain I have is a touch underscale that actually works to my favour. It is used primarily for tabletop RPGs and with some fun scenario play for Warhammer.

 

As for the warcry terrain it is lucky there is a number of these sets so it won't be super rare. 🙂

[Tonhel]

2 hours ago, Ejecutor said:

Bear in mind they are noticeably smaller in comparison with some AoS terrain.

Also, about the Warcy scenery, maybe you can still find in second-hand places the Mortal Real issues. You could get some bits from there.

I don't think this is a problem for using with CoS, as the Steelhelms are exactlty the same scale as the Empire plastics.

Edited August 9 by Tonhel

[Ejecutor]

Just now, Tonhel said:

I don't think this a problem for using with CoS, as the Steelhelms are exactlty the same scale as the Empire plastics.

Yep, but not the Cavaliers, for example. Also, they feel smaller with AoS terrain like the Warcry one.

[Tonhel]

Just now, Ejecutor said:

Yep, but not the Cavaliers, for example. Also, they feel smaller with AoS terrain like the Warcry one.

Yeah, but that's imo a bit stupid. Anyway scale consistency was always a problem for GW, even now when everything is sculpted digitally. I know that there is fluff why the Steelhelms are smaller, but still it's stupid and limits a bit the exchangeability of parts.

 

[Greyshadow]

8 hours ago, Neverchosen said:

I just saw a pretty cool announcement that they will be revisiting some Old World Terrain.

Wow! My anti-hoarding buying strategy came to an end when I missed out on the Fortified Manor set. (I called shops all over the state trying to find one that still had it in stock and was prepared to drive five hours to get one). In the end, I bought up the final stock of Watchtowers and Chapels at my local GW store. Using the little outhouses as a connecting structure, I managed to make one:

As to issues of scale, I prefer my structures to be on the small side. It gives wargames a greater sense of scale in my opinion. 

Edited August 9 by Greyshadow

[Ejecutor]

15 hours ago, Neverchosen said:

Considering that the village terrain I have is a touch underscale that actually works to my favour. It is used primarily for tabletop RPGs and with some fun scenario play for Warhammer.

 

As for the warcry terrain it is lucky there is a number of these sets so it won't be super rare. 🙂

In a Spanish second hand site. Three warcry sprues 30 €: Capilla Azyrite + Azyrite ruinas Warhammer AoS de segunda mano por 30 EUR en Torrecampo en WALLAPOP