General Chat Thread

[cofaxest]

On 8/14/2024 at 1:46 PM, Beliman said:

There is a rumour about a new FAQ/ errata/ Battlescroll / whatever early september. If that's the case, what do you expect?

I think that point increase for NH, LRL, StD and maybe IDK will be very helpfull for health of the game. 

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

1 minute ago, Arzalyn said:

The main tweak I would like to see is increasing the number of "extra heroes" some factions get. Armys with small rosters usually have 50% or more of the their warscrolls as heroes and most of them have like 1 or 2 max extra heroes. This leave many heroes with niche effects that could be cool to use out of list due to them needing a extra drop.

Most non-wizard, non-priests could be made available as bonus heroes, IMO. A lot of them are still do-nothing flavour choices, even moreso now that the HERO keyword no longer has any intrinsic value.

3 minutes ago, Arzalyn said:

I've been wondering if increasing the number of anti-cavalry attacks in some factions could be a option to reduce their power (together with points increases to make the internal balance better).

I have certainly had my cavalry blown up by anti-cav units a few times already, and they do get to tend ground down over the course of the game, so it's not like cavalry is unbeatable. It just seems like spamming cavalry is a really efficient choice in pretty much every army that can do so. So IMO, it's just a points issue of their 3 wounds being underpriced right now.

[PraetorDragoon]

1 hour ago, MitGas said:

Take the manifestations away (or fix em)  and the problem is solved. I don’t think our normal magic is a problem at this point, our units certainly aren’t. Which is why I want to see manifestations fixed ASAP. Probably applies to Lumineth as well… and perhaps Seraphon. 
 

I figure Nighthaunt and Slaves are unit-wise currently the only armies to be really a cut above the rest. 
 

And then we‘ll see where Skaven and SCE will ultimately land with their new battletomes.

 

Nah, you'll get your point increases. Tzeentch will pay for lumineth magic transgressions.

[MitGas]

15 minutes ago, PraetorDragoon said:

Nah, you'll get your point increases. Tzeentch will pay for lumineth magic transgressions.

That's fine too (except for the Lumineth part OBVIOUSLY) but I think first they should fix manifestations as I think the magic heavy armies are so strong because of them and that would solve a huge chunk of their problems. If more needs to be done, then no problem. I'll be honest, I don't want my army to be trash tier (had that for many, many years with Thousand Sons in 40k and it was rough to field an army that sucked on purpose just because you're a loyal follower of big T) but I don't need them to be one of the strongest to be happy either, mid-tier is fine too. I'd instantly swap the top tier for Chaos Warriors or, even better, our own variety of Chosen as I want armored mortals.

Right now I'll just use my CW minis with Tzaangor rules, which is good as I don't have more than 20 Tzaangors anyways and my group doesn't mind.

Anyways, fix manifestations, that's the biggest problem ATM I believe.

[PraetorDragoon]

I agree. Manifestations and listbuilding issues (like Spawns) should be solved before points increases imo.

[Arzalyn]

11 hours ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

Most non-wizard, non-priests could be made available as bonus heroes, IMO. A lot of them are still do-nothing flavour choices, even moreso now that the HERO keyword no longer has any intrinsic value.

Exactly! If those heroes were such power houses I would understand the restriction, but most are just cool models with average to bad rules.

11 hours ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

I have certainly had my cavalry blown up by anti-cav units a few times already, and they do get to tend ground down over the course of the game, so it's not like cavalry is unbeatable. It just seems like spamming cavalry is a really efficient choice in pretty much every army that can do so. So IMO, it's just a points issue of their 3 wounds being underpriced right now

I was think of it more has a way to make the comparison between infantry and cavalry less one sided. Cavalry right now has better mobility, damage, fewer downsides with the anti- and in some cases even better wounds density as well. 

[Grimrock]

12 hours ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

Most non-wizard, non-priests could be made available as bonus heroes, IMO. A lot of them are still do-nothing flavour choices, even moreso now that the HERO keyword no longer has any intrinsic value.

Just a guess, but I think it's less of a balance consideration and more of a thematic consideration. Like having 8 junky foot melee heroes isn't going to crush tournaments, but it does go against what the game developers think an army 'should' look like. 

[Big Kim Woof-Woof]

I'm still ruminating upon how it'd go to put points costs back on manifestations. Every time I try to put a list together I find there's 60 or so points left over, anyway. 

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

1 hour ago, Big Kim Woof-Woof said:

I'm still ruminating upon how it'd go to put points costs back on manifestations. Every time I try to put a list together I find there's 60 or so points left over, anyway. 

Of course, if points for manifestations were put back in place, it wouldn't actually improve your list building.

Right now you have 60 points left over and 3 manifestations for free. If they had points you would have the same number of units, fewer points left over and probably fewer manifestations.

It doesn't really improve anything other than quieting the mind goblins that tell you to get as close to 2000 as possible.

[Tonhel]

Not if the goal is to limit manifestations. It will be interesting to see how GW handle this. Only gentle balancing is needed.

[Ejecutor]

37 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

Of course, if points for manifestations were put back in place, it wouldn't actually improve your list building.

Right now you have 60 points left over and 3 manifestations for free. If they had points you would have the same number of units, fewer points left over and probably fewer manifestations.

It doesn't really improve anything other than quieting the mind goblins that tell you to get as close to 2000 as possible.

Limiting their number would be some sort of nerfing them, so point cost could be an option, especially if some go back to around 50 points.

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

3 minutes ago, Ejecutor said:

Limiting their number would be some sort of nerfing them, so point cost could be an option, especially if some go back to around 50 points.

Sure, that's clearly true. But what I am talking about, is the idea that I have seen expressed a few times that endless spells having point costs again would help with list building, which I don't think holds up.

[Big Kim Woof-Woof]

1 hour ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

Of course, if points for manifestations were put back in place, it wouldn't actually improve your list building.

Right now you have 60 points left over and 3 manifestations for free. If they had points you would have the same number of units, fewer points left over and probably fewer manifestations.

It doesn't really improve anything other than quieting the mind goblins that tell you to get as close to 2000 as possible.

[Beliman]

Wow, nighthaunt are so strong. 2 rounds game.

Deployed back, took a few objectives, 10 points, as expected. Nighthaunt move to middle (they are FAST!).

Second turn, start Nighthaunt, teleport 2 units behind my frigate, horses move within  3" of my skywardens, can't redeploy more than 1 or 2". Ghost-horses charge 11" (had +1 extra) and move over my skywardens to be within 3" of my frigate. They kill 12 skywardens in one hit with All-Out-Defense (600p bye bye).

No need to continue playing, I don't have bodies nor damage.

I don't know why GW took away our High Fly...

[Chikout]

8 minutes ago, Beliman said:

Wow, nighthaunt are so strong. 2 rounds game.

Deployed back, took a few objectives, 10 points, as expected. Nighthaunt move to middle (they are FAST!).

Second turn, start Nighthaunt, teleport 2 units behind my frigate, horses move within  3" of my skywardens, can't redeploy more than 1 or 2". Ghost-horses charge 11" (had +1 extra) and move over my skywardens to be within 3" of my frigate. They kill 12 skywardens in one hit with All-Out-Defense (600p bye bye).

No need to continue playing, I don't have bodies nor damage.

I don't know why GW took away our High Fly...

Arguably the worst army in the game right now vs definitely the best. Hopefully next months faq sees things change in both directions. 

[Starfyre]

What cavalry units do we think are the 'best' at the moment?

There's some really interesting variants between them but it's the Lumineth Dawnriders that stand out to me.

I expect Hex Wraiths and Chaos Knights to get mentioned.

Edited August 16 by Starfyre

[ScionOfOssia]

10 minutes ago, Starfyre said:

What cavalry units do we think are the 'best' at the moment?

There's some really interesting variants between them but it's the Lumineth Dawnriders that stand out to me.

I expect Hex Wraiths and Chaos Knights to get mentioned.

Any Nighthaunt cav is overpowered, Dawnriders, Varanguard, and Chaos Knights make up the rest. Honorable mention to the Kavalos Deathriders whose backs must be made from reinforced tungsten given how they were heavily carrying the Bonereapers win rate until the Teratic Cohorts dropped. 

[Beliman]

3 hours ago, Starfyre said:

What cavalry units do we think are the 'best' at the moment?

There's some really interesting variants between them but it's the Lumineth Dawnriders that stand out to me.

I expect Hex Wraiths and Chaos Knights to get mentioned.

Any cavalry unit with high wounds (over 30 health with a reinforced unit), good save (3+), good dmg output (3 attacks for model with 3+/3+/rend 2/dmg 2 on charge) and a 10" (or more) is awesome. That's just one of the best stats in the game.

If, appart from main stats, your cavalry unit has mortals on crits, ward saves, auto-wound, control 2, mortal wounds after charge, 2" more movement, attack first, or any other bonus, that will upgrade an already awesome unit in to something crazy.

Imho, Varanguard and Dawnbringers are at the top of other cavalry units just because I rate Crit (mortal) above other bonuses.

[Big Kim Woof-Woof]

Chaos Knights merrily trampled over everything in their path in the last game I played against them. 

[Dragon-knight77]

ok my rough initial review of Talhia Vedra Lioness of the Parch By Even Dickens (spoiler in the book so view discretion is advised)

Spoiler

Before this novel there was the Short story "Head of the serpent" which was by far the worst AOS short story that I read. The short story was absolute trash as it was simply really really generic story that bloated with Talhia Vedra whining and almost racist remarks about the Azyrites who never show up in the story mind you. There no context or development to the world nor character, the threat is so superficial just there to actually have a story & after reading the novel there barely anything pay off from this (the only thing you need to know about this story is Vedra convince a barbarian tribe call Ash vipers to join Hammerhald but even then the Ash Viper are weird mischaracterize between stories)

Why am I trashing the short story that was meant be a sort of prelude to the novel?

Head of the Serpent is flaming trash

Lioness of the Parch is Good almost really good

If I had to rank all the AOS novels with the S-tier being the likes of Soul wars, Hamilcar Champion of the gods, Godeater son & Scourge of Fate, then Talhia Vedra is would land a A-tier. The novel has a good sense of the setting and likes playing with the lore with a wonderful cast of supporting characters that play off Talhia personality and ideals.

Those two thing what make the book excel where the short story falters

• The world building is create and it really feel like Even Dicken know AOS lore as he utilize a bunch of the not just the new lore but also old lore from 1 & 2 editions all while making new lore as well. Hammerhald feels flesh out as the story as distinct cultures and district visited areas like the Pyromancer district where it described as polluted with coal carts, Bright wizards apprentice running around & half it on fire while various towers research and produces fuel it contradicted to Old Town in the higher points of Hammerhald where the Azyrite and elite have their settlements with their mansion and collection of spires and gold-enamelled domes as the Goldenpath bridge is line with the golden statues of Azyrite heroes. I talk more about lore stuff over in the Rumor thread side link it afterwards
• The side character almost all have charm and character to them each that make every interaction with Vedra enjoyable to read. Vedra herself doesn't change that much in term of Character as she the blunt hot-head warrior woman with a hatred towards bureaucracy but still has a fiery deep  passion for her city and in this novel it given context, nuance due to the character that bounce off her. There ton of them but want to highlight three of them
  • Katrik her best friend and supreme Lord-commander of the Hammerhald armies who her back and support her  even when hitting Vedra lowest point but she also know how to play politics and know the importance of it as there an early chapter where she completely dismantle Vedra whining of the Conclave bureaucracy by explaining how grain trade is just as important about military campaigns despite her understanding and agreeing with Vedra with the gravity of the Ebonpyre situation
  • Marshal Hest is Vedra's old mercenary boss and father figure who was retired but  "the game always pull me back" storyline has such charming and heartwarming moments with Talhia talking about their hopes and dream along with the flashbacks as he supported her since day one as their journey together from being a Bright wizard merc to genuine Freeguilder to a bar owner in there sprawls of Hammerhald
    • Side note he was friend with a Fleetmaster back in the old days and the elven corsair was able to hook him up with Idoneth win and apparently it sort  give one an icey cold feeling rather than your typical warm feeling alcoholic drinks give someone
  • Lord Myravel the new head-banker of Hammerhald act as complete foil to Vedra as the Azyrite bureaucrat who start off as an allied to Vedra sort of mentoring her in the ways of politics before the reveal to be an atagonist by the end as he is the traitor but not in the "I join chaos" traitor way as there no relation with Ebonpyre but rather in the "im trying to ensure the Azyr vision of the greater good for ALL the realm" way. The conversation at the end is very interesting I do suggest reading it at least the excerpt of that part. It a character that able to 

The only two thing I will criticism towards:

1. Not really a bad thing I guess but Even Dicken really like to world build the setting which I really cool when describing the city of Hammerhald with it Pyromancer districts & Ironweld district not so much when it comes to a desert. Like ~15-17 chapter in Talhia assemble a volunteer crusade to go after Marshal Hest after his crusade goes radio silent and for half a chapter there just nothing but constant description of the desert and the plains and three random ****** sandstorms that the crusade has to get pass through but honestly has no bearing on the plot at all it could have condense to a page saying "the journey was harsh". But that not all in said chapter the author just pull the plot to a screeching halt and goes "Hey did you read Head of the Serpent? Let me recap Head for the serpent for you" I verbally said "No" and skip a couple pages to the next chapter before going back because a big emotional scene happen three pages prior. Mind you the Ash Vipers was introduced chapter 1 so I don't know what was the need to recap something so unnecessary then to promote that short. It was definitely the low point of the book
2. The villain is a plank of wood. Forgettable AF as chaos villain goes for in the story Mausolus Ebonpyre was constantly talked and hype up to be this big looming threat "the largest threat Hammerhald has ever had to deal with since Khul himself" but nah he just a big generic chaos lord who running circle around Vedra Castelite formation. Made worse is that he only ever speaks in two chapter no I ****** you not only two chapters this guy says anything; the prologue and the third to last chapter in the final dual where he dies. I think this was made in order to not give away the most obvious reveal at the end that Ebonpyre is Talhia Vedra childhood friend Helek whom she left for dead when she first became a marshal and now broken by the darkoath fighting pits has developed this nihilist view on world affair that he wish to kill everyone out of love to end their suffering??? Like the book suffer a lot because they wanted this reveal at the final dual when I swear this how obvious it was
   •  flashback Vedra "ah geez glad I got you with me Helek Twinsteel (yes that his name)-->*Back to present* "Katrik I got to stop this dual wielding chaos lord who know about Castelite formation & rides a chaos manticore". Like come on

agree? disagree? are you interested in reading the book or not?

will write the interesting lore part in the rumor thread soon

[Ejecutor]

14 minutes ago, Dragon-knight77 said:

ok my rough initial review of Talhia Vedra Lioness of the Parch By Even Dickens (spoiler in the book so view discretion is advised)

  Hide contents

Before this novel there was the Short story "Head of the serpent" which was by far the worst AOS short story that I read. The short story was absolute trash as it was simply really really generic story that bloated with Talhia Vedra whining and almost racist remarks about the Azyrites who never show up in the story mind you. There no context or development to the world nor character, the threat is so superficial just there to actually have a story & after reading the novel there barely anything pay off from this (the only thing you need to know about this story is Vedra convince a barbarian tribe call Ash vipers to join Hammerhald but even then the Ash Viper are weird mischaracterize between stories)

Why am I trashing the short story that was meant be a sort of prelude to the novel?

Head of the Serpent is flaming trash

Lioness of the Parch is Good almost really good

If I had to rank all the AOS novels with the S-tier being the likes of Soul wars, Hamilcar Champion of the gods, Godeater son & Scourge of Fate, then Talhia Vedra is would land a A-tier. The novel has a good sense of the setting and likes playing with the lore with a wonderful cast of supporting characters that play off Talhia personality and ideals.

Those two thing what make the book excel where the short story falters

• The world building is create and it really feel like Even Dicken know AOS lore as he utilize a bunch of the not just the new lore but also old lore from 1 & 2 editions all while making new lore as well. Hammerhald feels flesh out as the story as distinct cultures and district visited areas like the Pyromancer district where it described as polluted with coal carts, Bright wizards apprentice running around & half it on fire while various towers research and produces fuel it contradicted to Old Town in the higher points of Hammerhald where the Azyrite and elite have their settlements with their mansion and collection of spires and gold-enamelled domes as the Goldenpath bridge is line with the golden statues of Azyrite heroes. I talk more about lore stuff over in the Rumor thread side link it afterwards
• The side character almost all have charm and character to them each that make every interaction with Vedra enjoyable to read. Vedra herself doesn't change that much in term of Character as she the blunt hot-head warrior woman with a hatred towards bureaucracy but still has a fiery deep  passion for her city and in this novel it given context, nuance due to the character that bounce off her. There ton of them but want to highlight three of them
  • Katrik her best friend and supreme Lord-commander of the Hammerhald armies who her back and support her  even when hitting Vedra lowest point but she also know how to play politics and know the importance of it as there an early chapter where she completely dismantle Vedra whining of the Conclave bureaucracy by explaining how grain trade is just as important about military campaigns despite her understanding and agreeing with Vedra with the gravity of the Ebonpyre situation
  • Marshal Hest is Vedra's old mercenary boss and father figure who was retired but  "the game always pull me back" storyline has such charming and heartwarming moments with Talhia talking about their hopes and dream along with the flashbacks as he supported her since day one as their journey together from being a Bright wizard merc to genuine Freeguilder to a bar owner in there sprawls of Hammerhald
    • Side note he was friend with a Fleetmaster back in the old days and the elven corsair was able to hook him up with Idoneth win and apparently it sort  give one an icey cold feeling rather than your typical warm feeling alcoholic drinks give someone
  • Lord Myravel the new head-banker of Hammerhald act as complete foil to Vedra as the Azyrite bureaucrat who start off as an allied to Vedra sort of mentoring her in the ways of politics before the reveal to be an atagonist by the end as he is the traitor but not in the "I join chaos" traitor way as there no relation with Ebonpyre but rather in the "im trying to ensure the Azyr vision of the greater good for ALL the realm" way. The conversation at the end is very interesting I do suggest reading it at least the excerpt of that part. It a character that able to 

The only two thing I will criticism towards:

1. Not really a bad thing I guess but Even Dicken really like to world build the setting which I really cool when describing the city of Hammerhald with it Pyromancer districts & Ironweld district not so much when it comes to a desert. Like ~15-17 chapter in Talhia assemble a volunteer crusade to go after Marshal Hest after his crusade goes radio silent and for half a chapter there just nothing but constant description of the desert and the plains and three random ****** sandstorms that the crusade has to get pass through but honestly has no bearing on the plot at all it could have condense to a page saying "the journey was harsh". But that not all in said chapter the author just pull the plot to a screeching halt and goes "Hey did you read Head of the Serpent? Let me recap Head for the serpent for you" I verbally said "No" and skip a couple pages to the next chapter before going back because a big emotional scene happen three pages prior. Mind you the Ash Vipers was introduced chapter 1 so I don't know what was the need to recap something so unnecessary then to promote that short. It was definitely the low point of the book
2. The villain is a plank of wood. Forgettable AF as chaos villain goes for in the story Mausolus Ebonpyre was constantly talked and hype up to be this big looming threat "the largest threat Hammerhald has ever had to deal with since Khul himself" but nah he just a big generic chaos lord who running circle around Vedra Castelite formation. Made worse is that he only ever speaks in two chapter no I ****** you not only two chapters this guy says anything; the prologue and the third to last chapter in the final dual where he dies. I think this was made in order to not give away the most obvious reveal at the end that Ebonpyre is Talhia Vedra childhood friend Helek whom she left for dead when she first became a marshal and now broken by the darkoath fighting pits has developed this nihilist view on world affair that he wish to kill everyone out of love to end their suffering??? Like the book suffer a lot because they wanted this reveal at the final dual when I swear this how obvious it was
   •  flashback Vedra "ah geez glad I got you with me Helek Twinsteel (yes that his name)-->*Back to present* "Katrik I got to stop this dual wielding chaos lord who know about Castelite formation & rides a chaos manticore". Like come on

agree? disagree? are you interested in reading the book or not?

will write the interesting lore part in the rumor thread soon

I hope they translate it to Spanish.

[Vasshpit]

@MitGas Romulus was ok. 

Not as good as any reviews I'd seen nor, imo, as bad as you laid out. 

Will I ever put it on as background for painting? No. Will i still put on the original aliens? Yes. Will I ever watch it again? Probably not. 

Worth a watch? Yes if not expecting the next revolution in the franchise. 5/10

[MitGas]

58 minutes ago, Vasshpit said:

@MitGas Romulus was ok. 

Not as good as any reviews I'd seen nor, imo, as bad as you laid out. 

Will I ever put it on as background for painting? No. Will i still put on the original aliens? Yes. Will I ever watch it again? Probably not. 

Worth a watch? Yes if not expecting the next revolution in the franchise. 5/10

Yeah, I gave it a 5 outta 10 as well elsewhere - it's a movie one can watch when they're still wasted from the night before and their mind's still hazy. But mostly for cinematography and the like, plus the one interesting character, which was also acted very well. All those rehashes cheapened it a LOT though. I bet there was a good film in there at one point. I dunno if I got truly annoyed with it when one character came back or the cheesiest line in the franchise ("mommy!" is a worthy contender though) got reused. I dunno how people could give Alien 3 poopoo and consider this better. This script of this is an abomination, it's like a fan film, while effects etc. are wonderful. Y'know, just gobbling up all the Alien flicks and regurgitating random parts. From the settlement mirroring A3, to the A:R ending and the more obvious ones during the flick. 

If they wanted to bring Alien back after stinkers like Prometheus, they needed a hell of a lot more than this. Ridley needs to quit fast. I wonder how much he'll destroy Gladiator next. 

[MitGas]

Anyone got an idea why one should take Enlightened on discs vs Skyfires in 4th? Looking at the warscrolls one is clearly better for the exact same points. 🤔

Perhaps I‘m missing something?

[The Lost Sigmarite]

Don't you find it funny that the WH+ minis for AoS are cycling the GA each year ? Year 1 was the megaboss, year 2 was the chaos sorcerer with her familiars, year 3 was the vampire lord, and now we get the CoS marshall. Maybe next year we get a new Destruction character ?

It's an infinitely better situation than 40k where 3/4 WH+ minis are Imperium (Xenos can't have anything), we in AoS have struck a nice balance for faction representation.