General Chat Thread

[Tonhel]

5 minutes ago, Beliman said:

Imho, it was already planned from the begining. They even wrote a BT in the new generals about killing units from the enemies detachment.

I suppose it was planned as another decision to make: use more detachment to try to solve this, or go for the minimum to chose who starts.

That's true, anyway it works very well with a unit like skyfires and no other units in it. 

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

6 minutes ago, Beliman said:

Imho, it was already planned from the begining. They even wrote a BT in the new generals about killing units from the enemies detachment.

I suppose it was planned as another decision to make: use more detachment to try to solve this, or go for the minimum to chose who starts.

Yeah, that was my read on it. The BT that has you destroy a unit in the general's regiment is a fairly obvious disincentive towards packing that regiment full of stuff. I would be surprised if the designers didn't realize this. It stands in opposition to big heroes allowing you to bring any units and Honour Guard becoming more flexible if you have more than one unit in there.

The AoS rules team constantly puts these kind of trade-offs in the game. It's just that they frequently don't get the balance quite right and one of the choices turns out to be the better one for 80% of lists.

[Starfyre]

43 minutes ago, Tonhel said:

I saw his interview, it's clever to give his generals regiment honour guard - priority target and than only add besides the general one mobile shooting unit in it. I don't think that the designers had this in mind. It forces the meta to have only a small generals regiment in your army with only one unit besides the general in it.

Oh I hadn't seen the interview, where's that out of interest? I have seen there's a 2 hour podcast on it but I'm hoping there's something written down somewhere 🥲

The tactic of keeping a minimal number of units in the general's regiment makes sense to deny opportunities to Slay the Entourage and conversely limit the effectiveness of Priority Target. I think the fact the Skyfires are fast, and have 4 health and a 4+ save make it a really investment to wipe out the unit and attain that battle tactics. 

And that's before they start getting teleported around and enemies get debuffed. 

[MitGas]

And that‘s precisely why I ask myself why anyone would pick Enlightened now… two blobs of Skyfires are brutal in DoT. 
 

They really need to fix manifestations though, that would bring such lists to bearable levels. 

[Starfyre]

13 minutes ago, MitGas said:

And that‘s precisely why I ask myself why anyone would pick Enlightened now… two blobs of Skyfires are brutal in DoT. 
 

They really need to fix manifestations though, that would bring such lists to bearable levels. 

Both fair points. 

I can't see why you would take Enlightened on discs. At least the foot ones deny commands.

[Tonhel]

1 hour ago, Starfyre said:

Oh I hadn't seen the interview, where's that out of interest? I have seen there's a 2 hour podcast on it but I'm hoping there's something written down somewhere 🥲

The tactic of keeping a minimal number of units in the general's regiment makes sense to deny opportunities to Slay the Entourage and conversely limit the effectiveness of Priority Target. I think the fact the Skyfires are fast, and have 4 health and a 4+ save make it a really investment to wipe out the unit and attain that battle tactics. 

And that's before they start getting teleported around and enemies get debuffed. 

the interview with the winner starts after 6 minutes.

[Starfyre]

2 hours ago, Tonhel said:

the interview with the winner starts after 6 minutes.

You're a hero, thank you.

Edited September 5 by Starfyre

[Grungnisson]

I finally managed to reset my password, I'M BACK!

...as you were.

[PraetorDragoon]

5 hours ago, Grungnisson said:

I finally managed to reset my password, I'M BACK!

...as you were.

DOOM HAS COME TO THE WORLD

[adjucator]

On 9/5/2024 at 9:34 PM, Tonhel said:

the interview with the winner starts after 6 minutes.

 

that interview sounds interesting, might have to check it out. always good to hear from tournament winners about their strategies. thanks for sharing the link!

[Beliman]

I'm not a fan of what they did with the new Battletome. I hope that's just the "Starter Factions" malediction...

[PraetorDragoon]

4 hours ago, Beliman said:

I'm not a fan of what they did with the new Battletome. I hope that's just the "Starter Factions" malediction...

I think this is the intended direction that the designers want to take the battletomes in. But it isn't a direction I am a fan of.

It is possible that this direction changes midway through the edition as result of feedback. (Which has happened before.) But I wouldn't count on that being soon.

[The Red King]

5 hours ago, PraetorDragoon said:

I think this is the intended direction that the designers want to take the battletomes in. But it isn't a direction I am a fan of.

It is possible that this direction changes midway through the edition as result of feedback. (Which has happened before.) But I wouldn't count on that being soon.

Changing halfway through will makes these first books even worse.

They need to stop this cycle of "do I want a bad book early or a good book that I only get to use at the very end of the edition?"

[Vasshpit]

10 hours ago, Beliman said:

I'm not a fan of what they did with the new Battletome. I hope that's just the "Starter Factions" malediction...

 

5 hours ago, PraetorDragoon said:

I think this is the intended direction that the designers want to take the battletomes in. But it isn't a direction I am a fan of.

 

26 minutes ago, The Red King said:

They need to stop this cycle of "do I want a bad book early or a good book that I only get to use at the very end of the edition?"

4th is starting to remind me of dating someone new. 

It's very attractive upon first glance and initial interactions. 

Definitely more fun than my ex (3rd edition)

But we've also been seeing each for a min now and I'm starting to notice more and more red flags. 😁

[PraetorDragoon]

1 hour ago, Vasshpit said:

 

 

4th is starting to remind me of dating someone new. 

It's very attractive upon first glance and initial interactions. 

Definitely more fun than my ex (3rd edition)

But we've also been seeing each for a min now and I'm starting to notice more and more red flags. 😁

How quickly the tide turns.

Honestly, the only thing of 4e that interested me was Spearhead, and that remains cool.

[Beliman]

1 hour ago, Vasshpit said:

4th is starting to remind me of dating someone new. 

It's very attractive upon first glance and initial interactions. 

Definitely more fun than my ex (3rd edition)

But we've also been seeing each for a min now and I'm starting to notice more and more red flags. 😁

My problem is that some AoS 4.0 rules decisions are not in line with what I like. It's not a red flag, it's not even a problem. It's just that I prefer another direction that, sadly, it seems that will not be the case in this edition. And I come here because it's the best webside to talk about AoS stuff.

Edited September 9 by Beliman

[ScionOfOssia]

I’m still mostly fine with 4.0 (Manifestations and a few outliers aside). The only reason I haven’t played more of it is not having finished my Idoneth before school started up again and I’m waiting for the balance pass which should hopefully adjust OBR and IDK points to something reasonable 

[Starfyre]

18 hours ago, adjucator said:

 

that interview sounds interesting, might have to check it out. always good to hear from tournament winners about their strategies. thanks for sharing the link!

It's a insightful video as a whole, there's a second interview with the Ossiarch player as well. Not terribly in-depth but I had a nice time listening to it whilst painting a Krondspine Incarnate (because I'm that guy now) 🤣

Probably total coincidence that I had the Tzaangor Skyfire product page up on wayland and element games as well.

[MitGas]

Not Warhammer-related per se (although I believe two of his performances shaped Warhammer in one way or another) but James Earl Jones died. That‘s one true icon of cinema gone. RIP

The only silver lining is that he got very old and his Darth Vader will live on forever, in a way he achieved immortality! 

[JackStreicher]

12 hours ago, Beliman said:

My problem is that some AoS 4.0 rules decisions are not in line with what I like. It's not a red flag, it's not even a problem. It's just that I prefer another direction that, sadly, it seems that will not be the case in this edition. And I come here because it's the best webside to talk about AoS stuff.

Same!

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

Just as a counter-balance to all the people who are wishing for more options, I want to voice my opinion that I am actually pretty happy with 4th edition and how it feels and plays. I feel like the choices I am making during play and list building are more meaningful than before. The game is really satisfying for me right now, and I don't feel like I have explored the depth of list building even for my main faction yet.

I really hope Anvil of Apotheosis takes off, though. I think narrative play is the perfect place for custom heroes, and I hope more people start playing narrative games, as well. Everyone always says they love narrative play, and then always just play 2000 points matched (including me). I actually think the game would benefit a lot from having rules for subfaction building for narrative play, as well. This is also where realm artefacts and the like could live.

[Tonhel]

Anvil of Apotheosis is doomed.

I love it and as a StD player I will have it sooner than later, but the rest of my gaming group will not have access to it very soon or maybe even only a couple of months before AoS 5th. The armies played in our group are FS, IDK, OBR, NH, SBG, CoS and StD.

I am the only one that would love to do a PtG campaign, the others prefer matched play, but want more options and not a copy paste of the index when the battletome for their army/armies arrive.

If we are indeed stuck with indexes for the rest of the edition than the game will not be exciting for very long.

[Starfyre]

I can see Battletomes being indexes with minor adjustments (see Jezzails in the Skaven battletome, for some reason) from FAQ/Errata + new units not in the index + regiment/armies of renown + path to glory + new lore/artwork, and that being that, unless something is hideously broken.

I hope not, because I think HoS need a sledgehammer taking to temptation dice, and maybe some other others do too.

Ultimately though I think it will depend on sales and whether that's enough to convince us to buy them. It won't me. 

[Big Kim Woof-Woof]

11 hours ago, Starfyre said:

I hope not, because I think HoS need a sledgehammer taking to temptation dice, and maybe some other others do too.

Doesn't even need a sledgehammer... a scalpel would do. Just copy/paste the Spearhead version into the main game. May not be perfect, but it's far more playable. 

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

18 hours ago, Starfyre said:

I can see Battletomes being indexes with minor adjustments (see Jezzails in the Skaven battletome, for some reason) from FAQ/Errata + new units not in the index + regiment/armies of renown + path to glory + new lore/artwork, and that being that, unless something is hideously broken.

I hope not, because I think HoS need a sledgehammer taking to temptation dice, and maybe some other others do too.

Ultimately though I think it will depend on sales and whether that's enough to convince us to buy them. It won't me. 

I would not hate an edition with slim battletomes, but lots of narrative add-ons. I wonder if that is the plan, given that a narrative book has already been announced and we are even getting new weekly short stories. It would be a great place for weird variant game modes and extra artefacts, traits and spell lores to live, IMO.

I would just need to convince people to actually play narrative games with me. I feel like the missing piece here is something like a "map based" play mode that connects individual battles together into an overarching campaign.