Pizzaprez

Outside of Legion of Grief the rest of the armies were supported in Battletomes. It isn't surprised pikachu face to have rules, narrative, etc for "beasts with marks" only for that entire concept to be axed in the next book. "Easily" redo an entire project is a crazy suggestion. I played this game when Warhammer Fantasy had extremely old "unsupported" armies that still had books and a seat at the table. I'm not complaining here about some of my extremely niche projects; Legion of Grief sucked, but it was like Savage Orks (40k) or Lost and the Damned. Couldn't complain too much there in the grand scheme of things, and I was able to get by with friendly games. But no, it's extremely fine to be frustrated with games workshop dropping entire subfactions, miniatures ranges, and armies in less than five years. What if I did, as you suggested, suck it up and make my slaanesh beastman army anyways? GW would tell me they should really be on squares within a year. Sorry I don't like projects becoming trash? The problem is I bought into Slaves to Darkness less than two years ago primarily wanting to use the brand-new "barbarians with flamethrowers." No amount of proxying will let me do that one book later. That is garbage and unreasonable. No one would be shocked if people complained that Cities lost one of their extremely new kits in a handful of time. Well, some people wouldn't be shocked. It's crazy to see the community pivot to "lol get over it" That's nice.

Bad news: I like them a lot and already own two boxes. I'd keep an eye out for the worst version of the "duardin soup" lol Those of y'all who still have playable armies will forget about this, yes: because you weren't impacted. My cursed city models are now only frostgrave NPCs because GW doesn't want me to play with them.

Haha, well if I were you I would not let yourself get excited at all about whatever plastic Chaos Duardin are in the pipes. I'm going to be so into those guys they'll probably get re-squatted within a year. How is it not? I'm in a uniquely awful position that this is the fourth army of mine that GW is dropping in the AoS ruleset alone! The legends Chaos Duardin, Slaanesh-marked beasts, the Legion of Grief, and now a Horns-centric Slaves army are all dead. My combined human-wood aelf army was killed before I'd even got halfway. So five, actually. I was cautiously optimistic about 4.0; my best friend likes the rats! But at this point I'm circling back to other games systems. GW makes cool toys but does not want me at their tournaments. For real. I want to like the GW games! I do! But I just bought into Slaves thinking "alright this is the posterboy antagonist faction; that's a safe pick." Can't even remotely blame you for feeling that way; ngl you were the first person I thought of when reading the beast part of that article. The worst of it is, to me, GW sold the entire daemon line of miniatures with both squares and rounds in the box to work on both game systems. That would have been an excellent decision to make with beasts; if the army "doesn't sell well" why not double the reach the miniatures have? I'm completely with you here. I felt like it was rude when armies with books were getting dropped in the first two editions, but by the FOURTH edition you would think things were set in stone. It's awful planning that speaks to their total disregard to long-term customer happiness. They were advertising and selling big free city armies that they turned around and dropped within 6 months to a year. That's literally unacceptable to me in a miniatures game. Magic: The Gathering is a game I dropped because I couldn't justify "spending that much on cardboard" but, jokes on me, I could take all my Magic cards from college to some casual tables and my cards don't need like FAQs and opponents permission to function because theyre two editions old "legends" cards. It is crazy that getting painted miniatures on a table takes so much more effort and GW is extremely cavalier with saying "oh man the posterboy wizard knights from 2.0? All those are in the trash now; you should've gone for liberators." At this point, any customer loyalty I'd have towards GW is shot. IF they release any models I like, I'll certainly be taking them to game systems that won't aim to make them obsolete within two years, and I'll certainly be finding the cheapest avenue to acquire them. Spent so much time combining the Karkadrak lord, a slaughterpriest, and some Horns bits to make a cool, characterful mounted leader. Why did I do that? Sure he could be leading Darkoath guys that I proxy for, but what about the flamethrowers? Why am I proxying models that were released in 2022? That is insane and completely unreasonable to me. It's nice that GW has shown me the door instead of suddenly kicking me out, but the end result is the same: my Slaves are a dead project for GW games before I've even been able to hit up a store with 'em. My fault for being busy with IRL stuff i guess, but it makes me miss the days where Bretonnia had a 10 year old book but was still allowed a seat at the table.

This is me; bought enough Horns to make them the batteline of my army; going so far as to convert up Knights and leaders for them too. I now have one year to finish that project and get it on some tables before GW puts my, like, eighth army in the dirt. I thought "cool, brand new unit in a battletome. Worst case they'll get moved to Duardin." No, worst case is they're extinct in three years. Entire sacrosanct chamber "went back to azyr!" crazy stuff. The notice is nice; I'll have to budget for a couple more boxes so I can at least wrap up the project. Gonna have to jump on whatever Chaos Duardin release might happen because they'll probably have a three year shelf life.

I'm also shocked by this tbh; I was expecting them to stick around and transition to the Chorf book, lol For those of y'all keeping count, that's *another* GW project of mine that just got transitioned out of the game: my whole Chaos force is Horns of Hashut... Guess I'll need to like double check what I have vs what I was hoping to do... Oh and I was kitbashing them with the Unmade and Iron Golems so that project is pretty much over long-term; I'll just have to be happy with what I have. Wild moves from GW. Maybe Horns were just selling that badly, maybe Warcry kits aren't really worth $70 for ten miniatures: I managed to snag most my Horns when they were cheap on eBay

The Kharadron already have the sub faction for "we're dispossessed in skyships" just fiction up an equivalent for the Dispossessed standalone and the Fyerslayers book I'd also like to politely demand/request the option to still have Dispossessed and Free Cities team up; someone on here mentioned the ghyranite duardin Root Kings a minute ago and theyve lived in the back of my head ever since.

Wouldn't mind looser rules for adding Kharadron to a Fyerslayer force and vice/versa; wouldn't complain if Duardin left Cities to get a third faction that the other two factions (still existing in their own books) could soup into If Aelves can have multiple fully fleshed out concepts, not sure why Duardin and Orruks both need to be mashed into one book

I love the idea that there are chaos strongholds out there trying to disguise themselves as Free Cities. Khorne seems like the least likely god to pull that off, but you won't see me complaining! It'd be a cool narrative to have, say, Warpstone jewelry coming from a city called Hel Crown, only for the Order of Azyr to investigate and discover the jewelry is actually coming from the Chaos Stronghold Hellcrown. If the jewelry was making the wearer violent and murderous, surely Khorne could appreciate a rival city killing itself

¡Lo siento si mi español es gracioso! ¡No es mi primer idioma! ¡Me encantaría ver más mariscales y me encantaría ver al menos quién camina a pie! Siento que podrían crear muchos líderes interesantes y únicos para el caos.

dude has been struggling for as long as he's existed as a character, lol: one of the things i love most about him! It'd have to be a pretty big narrative shift for him to become the focus, but you wouldn't see me complain: let Archaon go on an old-school Realm of Chaos style vision quest and leave the empty throne unattended for awhile: give Abraxia vs Belakor the stage for a "main chaos faction civil war" arc They gotta give the dude a win that sticks; cursed skies are cool! I'd love to see 'em circle back to them. Collapsing the realmgates was a real cool idea, and I like how much of a hater he still is after all these years on the topic of rats; they look cool! I don't love the new stormcast heads! I do love the nucasts!

Are we too cocky? Refreshing the rumor thread once a day to dig around for a single mention of anything that was mentioned in the same breath as Chorfs? Are we too cocky when I can now climb onto the roof of my home and scream that Chaos Dwarfs During 4th Are Now 100% Confirmed? (this totally confirms Chorfs)

That'd be so sick; I've tossed around a couple ideas for trying to build some sort of AoS "green knight" type; maybe riding a bug Figured the realms are each the size of multiple earths; why wouldn't Alarielle have a few different green knights?

Hashut is absolutely the Lawful Evil chaos god; 100%. He's chaotic because, despite being industrially minded, they're bad people using Chaos magic and demon summoning. Sacrifice, dark magic, forbidden technology, "dwarfs using magic," bull-dwarf hybrids, mutations, etc are all in play for them. But instead of mass slaughter, it's systemic slavery. Instead of wrecking a nation, they use the ruins as the foundation to build forges, factories, and what-have-you that has the misery continue as new seat of Chaos Dwarf power in their expanding empire. Many chaos factions go somewhere new, kill a bunch, then generally move on. In Tamurkhan, the barbarians thought it was weird that the Duardin were concerned with building outposts and supply lines. To the Duardin, it was a sound tactical decision that resulted in their ability to flee safely back home with their spoils when things went sideways. They don't value the lives of demons, but they use them as ingredients or fuel; thinking they're above them in the hierarchy (another thing fairly unique to them in the chaos GA outside of like Archaon) Edit: the direct foil of Slaves to Darkness is probably the Kurnothi Wild Hunt; a stampede that is moving. The Hashut faction would likely be a more direct foil to the Cities: multispecies metropolis monocultured hellscapes instead of beacons of multicultural hope. They're the chaos faction doing Evil Dawnbringer Crusades I'm so glad!! I cannot overstate how excited I am to finally get a "core" Battletome for these guys. The closest they had was the White Dwarf supplement from years back; Tamurkhan had details about the Legion of Azgorh but didn't do a lot to deepen the core faction and their beliefs

I'd say yes! Though the rest of the pantheon may feel differently. GHR "ascended" during the End Times, Hashut was... trapped? inside the old world.... or the Duardin simply found him there. Hashut is beyond vague; some of the only stuff about him speculates whether he's even a god or some sort of "ascended demon or prince" For us, the players, there are Slaanesh, Khorne, Nurgle, and Tzeentch as the "big four." The four are vast and vague conceptually and have been described as being both gods of concepts and emotions, and such things tend to exist on a spectrum. The four play their "great game" across the multiverse, and the four are actually just like crystallizations or focus points of the greater incomprehensible force that is Chaos The GHR is a chaos god as well, though in-universe that is debated. Archaon spurned his allegiance, and the Four don't really want to acknowledge him. Partially because he was viewed as "inferior" but also he's sort of stepped into the Malal role of "this guy wins when our endless game is over" and to acknowledge him as an equal would only give him more strength. A lot of that lore is new for the GHR: he covets his own power, so his greater demons and demon princes are indistinguishable. He is so close with the rats that they're essentially his lesser demons despite all being mortal; they even reside in a pocket in the Realm of Chaos. The bit of Morghur we got was also pretty similar, albeit everyone melts into one big blob instead. With that in mind, Hashut will 100% be a 6th chaos god, or 7th if we count Morghur (I count Morghur; I'd like to see eight chaos gods). We know he is a god of hatred, industry, slavery, arcane machinery, and demonbinding. We know he, in AoS, is a god for sure. He is "a bull wreathed in smoke and flame" but that's all we've got from him physically. We know he coerced the Chaos Dwarfs into binding their faction to him, and we know the Chaos Dwarfs have folded many human nations into themselves in a similar way. Unlike the Big Four who just want to play, or the GHR who wants ruin, Hashut's worshippers have been noteworthy in that they're expansionist industrialists: they want to suck up natural resources and rule the lesser species from their cities built on the foundations of the nations they conquer. He also is fine with binding demons forcefully. What that looks like is vague, but it doesn't seem to be consensual compared to 40k's Forge of Souls. They create their own half-demon frankensteins with the K'daii, but don't generally seem to be about forging pacts like the other mortals (including Skaven). I'd imagine the big four appreciate their usefulness as weaponsmiths, but also are not excited about the prospect of the "demonic god who's whole thing is stuffing demons into machines" being the ascendant god; who is to say he couldn't, eventually, stuff them into a machine? This repetitive circle of "ah! this god cant get too strong! what if they're secretly the real chaos god!" has always been a thing, but it's been focused on more in AoS: with Slaanesh being the God of Obsession and also absent the other gods are (rightfully) worried that their obsessions about where he is and what he is up to are empowering him and they also worry that, because each of them are themselves an avatar of hyperfixation (knowledge/violence/mortality) that really Slaanesh is the most powerful chaos god.

I've got both the character Ogroids and ngl neither of them are notably bigger; I think the Fomoroid is what you're looking for!

It'd be extremely cool if, on a long enough timeline, TOW brings Lizardmen into the game and they use the opportunity to dovetail the two concepts: TOW gets Jurassic Park stuff and AoS gets Space Dinosaurs

No but there are only a handful of things on the tabletop that actively cause spawndom during the game If memory serves me correctly, it was the Exalted Changer of Ways from forgeworld, the mutalith vortex beast, and Morghur

Mhm yeah that's what I'm trying to say lol Ah well- doesn't matter

Nah I doubt a varanguard character was made for Beasts, but a varanguard character they already had in the pipes suddenly getting a couple plot beats from a cut beastmen character's background makes sense to me. "Oh; the evil spear she has is a magic one that causes chaos spawns to spawn during a game" Causing lots of chaos spawns is generally a Morghur thing, or tzeentch

Lol you pretty much described how the conversation probably went down If they have updated chaos spawn, for example. in the pipes they could feel they need a character to help sell them. The lady chaos character with the flaming spear can have a flaming *varanite* spear and be the "spawn character" with literally no changes to the model itself. She could've been the lady of literally anything else before they scrubbed the narrative

The specific title of "X of Ruin" being used for two different characters is noteworthy to me, though. I know AoS had some weirdness early on like Seraphon being a dragon and also Lizardmen, but to hint at/release two new chaos characters relatively close to one another that are both focused on "ruin" in particular in their title? Idk that's weird to me.

Just chewing on recent stuff a bit; The Beastmen had a Sire of Ruin character mentioned a few times around the time where Morghur, the main guy associated with mutations and spawns, was mentioned: story seemed to be building towards one or both of them Beastmen were axed offscreen Now the Slaves have a character named the Lady of Ruin who, apparently, a few pages back was mentioned has having a spear that makes chaos spawn.... If beasts really are on the outs, and they really did have a narrative arc that was dropped, I wonder if the Sire of Ruin wasn't (to some degree) reworked into this Lady character? I could see "lady Varanguard boss who is hunting for traitors" and "herald of Ruin with spear of mutation" having been two separate ideas for a minute before things were adjusted

Back when I started, Dragon Ogors were moved from slaves to BoC: I've never felt like they were entirely at home with Beasts, and with current AoS lore (thinking Fomoroids, Ogroids, Mindstealers) Dragon Ogors would be more at home in S2D Outside of the Herdstone mechanics and monsters (which do feel like a loss) iirc, Chaos is really only missing a "chaff" infantry. Gors -> Marauders, Bestigors -> Warriors, Centigors -> Marauder Horsemen etc. One could run a lot of the units in Slaves instead. I think your assertion that Chaos Duardin are going to replace the beasts is accurate, even if I dislike it! I've wondered (and I've been anticipating) how AoS is going to give beasts a stronger identity. Some of their core things aren't exclusive to their faction anymore: Animal Human hybrids of all shapes and sizes are generally seen as natural and often associated with Ghur. This includes Satyrs and Centaurs Animal imagery, while never exclusive to them, has been something other factions have adopted. Bulls are now both a Lumineth and Chaos Duardin thing, and bull-like Ogroids exist too. If Chaos Duardin get Bull Centaurs that's two more for the list with Bulls and Centaurs in one "Hating cities" as a staple is now generally a Destruction GA thing these days Beasts quickly lost the chaos marks and factions associated with them, and didn't gain anything new to replace itL Skaven have the GHR, Chaos Duardin have Hashut but both Morghur and the "Sire of Ruin" are seemingly completely gone. The upcoming "Lady of Ruin" has a shockingly similar title and her spear makes chaos spawns.... absolutely makes it sound like she could have started life as a beastmen protagonist "prophet of morghur" and they pivoted to making her a Varanguard character If Lumineth keep getting animal stuff, Chaos Duardin stay Bull-themed, hating cities stays destruction, if we ever see more Kurnothi, and if Drogrukh get an army release, idk what beasts (in their current form) could have outside of Herdstones and a couple monsters to give them any sort of unique identity... I'd like to see them melt into a Morghur faction, but hearing the "Lady of Ruin" has a spear that makes chaos spawn has me pretty positive we're not also getting a Sire of Ruin for Beastmen. If Beastmen are not going to get their one named character and if their only narrative arc was cut short, my hopium is on fumes

Boar Mierce Miniatures Bear Mierce Miniatures Wolves GW- ray dranfield Zombie Wolf Conversion Wild Dogs GW Squigs Leopards Reaper Lions Giant Rats GW- Cursed City Rat Swarms Toad FW Plague Toad Spiders GW- Old WH grot Spiders Gorilla Crooked Dice Great Apes Trolls GW Rockgut Troggoths Giant Mierce Miniatures Giant Sharkman Construct Sm GW- Necron Scarabs Construct M GW- Necron Warriors Construct Lg GW- Whatever the big three legged guys are Demon Sm GW- Brimstone Horrors Demon M GW- Old Tzeentch Horrors[?] Demon Lg GW- Ogroid w/ doom Baron Head Worm Reaper Giant Worm Zombies GW- Zombies Skeletons GW- Skeletons Skeletons W/ Bow Oathmark Skeletons Armored Skeletons GW- Grave Guard Ghoul GW ghoul Wraith GW- Bladegheist Revenants Vampire On foot armored vampire: you have options Werewolf Vyrkos Bloodborn idea I'd made a chart for this in a doc to help me organize my own quest for miniatures! Some I'd owned, some I purchased, but this is what I nailed down for NPCs! For warbands, a friend of mine has built his Skaven band out of a box of Plague Monks and the Underworlds plague monk kit: gave him quite a few options for robed ratmen My other friend is using the frostgrave wizard kit along with Perry Miniatures knights/men at arms My wife is using Sylvaneth; revenants for "heavily armored" stuff, Dryads for "lightly armored" and I built her some little sprite swarms for the "no armor" guys For myself, I'm using some Chaos Duardin for my wizard and knight, some Horns of Hashut for lightly armored stuff, and some Hobgrots for my thief and treasure hunter (I've got some metals and plastics so I'm using one of each to differentiate em) Really like how open Frostgrave is! Once you've got the core bestiary down (if you want to do it all) the first few expansions don't really add that many new NPCs, it isn't really until you start getting into the gnoll and barbarian stuff, or the wilderness one For the Gnolls, since they have every unit profile I'm planning on representing them as a spectrum of Goblins -> Kruleboyz -> Ardboyz

If Beasts are really going to get axed at the end of the "Era of the Beast" it really does emphasize that "the Era of the Beast is over" which is... something! It does line up with some of the weirdness of 3.0; Broken Realms just sort of disappeared, followup kits got scrapped, and the narrative was rudderless for a minute up until Dawnbringers, which almost feels like a soft reboot in some respects To me, that could absolutely signify a couple shakups internally; both from Covid and AoS and TOW teams not wanting any model overlap in official factions for some reason. Ideally, they crunched some numbers and figured two beast armies were better than one...