[AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion]

4 hours ago, Battlefury said:

Does that mean, it can only be used once? Or cna I stack it, until I have emptied my command points?

You technically can use it any amount of times, but each unit will only get 1 additional pile in since it mentions "for the first time".

Now the question that they didn't FAQ is if it means first time per combat phase or first time per game, so that part is debatable. But FEC got their ability with same wording FAQed to first time per combat phase.

12 minutes ago, TheArborealWalrus said:

If you can get the bubbles right the tyrants ability would then let you have 2 piles in with three different thirsters before your opponent goes(assuming no activation shenanigans and you get that 4+ artifact to go off(big ifs)).  Admittedly not hard for an enemy to prevent this, but it'd be real cool that one time it happens.

It won't stack with tyrants ability because both mention "for the first time". It will stack with strike fist ability.

[AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion]

Soo, ironweld cannons are 140 now and they shoot two times, kinda like pre-nerf skullcannons. Do we care about that?

Also do crew and cannon count as separate units for blood tithes?

[AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion]

6 hours ago, Battlefury said:

And now the one point, that I really don't like, but is a very strong part of our armie's effectivity: lucky rolls
Without being lucky, our amry lacks anything.

You are not wrong, but other top armies also have lucky mechanics. Terrorgheist wouldn't be so good without his 6 mws ability. Slaanesh has exploding 6s and the mws on KoS. Fyreslayers have super runes.

I think only DoK and Fec have nothing at this scale.

Maybe the way to go with competitive Khorne is just maximizing your chance at 6s with double tapping IR/Skarbrand/Skulltaker/Letters with +attack buffs. If the army can't perform well enough without rolling hot then go all-in on rolling hot.

[AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion]

2 hours ago, MOMUS said:

That's a pretty tight summoning space to fit in, within 12 but 9 away. Not sure if you could physically fit the battalion?

It's  within  12", not wholly within. Meaning 1 guy out of each teleported unit has to be within 12", rest might as well dangle across the board.

And you choose the prey after deployment so you have a good chance of pulling this off unless opponent is some kind of horde.

[AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion]

On 6/7/2019 at 3:05 AM, Darksteve said:

Forgive my ignorance but how do you teleport karnack and another unit?

There's a "The Boundless Hunt" battalion in Wrath&Rapture. It's currently legal in builder and costs 130pt.

It needs Karanak, 1x letters, 1x doggos, 1x bloodcrushers.

The ability is 'At the beginning of your hero phase Karanak and any number of units from the battalion wholly within 12" of him can teleport within 12" of Karanak's quarry and more than 9" from enemy, they can't move in subsequent movement phase'.

[AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion]

There's a strike first artifact in Bloodlords host.

 

Anyway. How about this:

Reapers host

Karanak

2x5 doggos

1x10 letters

1x6 bloodcrushers

Boundless hunt battalion

2x thirsters with artifacts

1x skarbrand

Tyrants battalion

Exactly 2k pts. 3 drops.

The idea is that you can teleport Karanak with a unit of doggos and/or letters turn 1 in 9-12" of his prey and try to pull a charge with free rerolls. If Karanak makes it he can summon 1 additional doggo unit. At worst you're limiting opponent's move phase, at best Karanak can kill something with double tap and doggos bog down something else in combat.

While that is happening you get thirsters in position. The crushers and Skarbrand are heavy hitters against big bricks.

Technically you can get Bloodlords host instead and give one thirster +8" move (trait+artifact) with charge reroll and have him join the alpha, but double tap is probably better.

[AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion]

On 6/5/2019 at 11:31 AM, Sleboda said:

I could really use advice on making Bloodthirsters useful. So far, my six bloodcrushers have been my most consistent unit, with the Bloodthirsters being a massive waste of points almost every game.

I think you just roll with tyrant list having some very bad matchups and hope to not play against them. You can protect 1 thirster with doppelganer or ragged cloak, you can't protect all three, especially if one is Skarbrand.

Technically you can do 1 strike first artifact, 1 cloak, 1 4+ strike first (or just hide him)  and then you're set against melee at least. Opposing cloak/strike first still wrecks you on opponent's turn, but that's the game now, the guy with the turn does monster smash first, it's not like they can stop you on your turn either. The only doable thing here is to go 2 drop (tyrants+something, pilgrims/dark feast for priest probably) and give turn 1 to opponent so you can smash him first. And then double turn to repeat.

That's it, that's the plan to win: go second, roll double turn, hope they can't shoot to punish you for it.

Actually since we're all in on going second plan now  maybe it's worth it to ditch tyrants and play the 1 drop demon battalion. You can pick fight order with UF's ability anyway on your turn (and give our guys strike first stuff). No priests in that case though.

[AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion]

6" pile-in requires some practice though.

It doesn't prevent opponent from fighting altogether. If he's fighting something else he can still pile-in into your 6" dude with a bit of placement and a long reach weapon. It also burns through CP very fast.

It's our best weapon against the meta, but it's nowhere near a nobrainer free win.

 

What I do like about it the most is that you can have pseudo-first strike without commiting to Bloodlords host since other hosts have more useful abilities.

 

I think thirsters are great hero hunters (which also earns BPs fast), good mobility option and that's all they are good at. They lack proper damage output to beat bricky units. They need a solid hammer unit to do that for them.

[AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion]

7 hours ago, THUNDERHAMMER said:

Now that weve had a lot of hands on time,  what have been your go to tithe spending. I find myself using the hero phase pile in more than anything else

3pt or 4pt unit summons for objective grabs.  In reapers host they also make nice fire and forget kamikadze unit that comes out of nowhere, charges with a free reroll and then doubletaps for bunch of attacks and dies on backswing.

3pt move is also nice since it gets a unit to somewhere it wouldn't normally be able to get, it's kind of a pseudo summon.

4pt fight I don't use much since it requires a really big unit unit to take advantage of. For example, I don't think it's worth it to use on thirster or any min size unit. Better to summon, you'll get same amount of hurt from summoned unit

2pt spell cancel is situational but when it's good it's really good. Against spell heavy armies they can start killing your stuff in hero phase and give you tithes that you use to save other stuff.

[AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion]

So we can now ally FEC & Fyreslayers except runefathers and dragons/gheists.
All usual ally limitations apply and you pay 1 CP turn 1 for it.

 

Thoughts?

 

Having a deepstrikeable brick of dwarves is something we can't have normally. And they shoot.

From FEC I'm interested in Crypt flayers. They are fast and don't need other FEC stuff to work, they cost 160pt which isn't a very occupied spot in Khorne.

The ghoul king can be used to cast cogs and summon a chaff unit (yay blood points) for objective grabs.

[AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion]

 

 

 

2

9 hours ago, Battlefury said:

Questio, asked today ( cynical )  :"When exactly did Slaanesh turn into everything that would be Khorne plus magic?"

Meh. I feel like the Keeper and Epitome are super pushed, everything else they have is weak. And their summoning is game breakingly good.

Technically letters&reapers also have exploding 6s, except our 6s explode into mws.

Slaanesh is fast, but they are also 5+ across the board. I have no idea how they play against any competent shooting with their reliance on heroes.

 

The only place where Khorne got really screwed in relation to other gods is hard split between mortals and demons. Feels like they should be part of same list, but they have very little synergy.

[AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion]

12 hours ago, Biboune said:

I would like to know what would be the best option in order to prioritise my painting.

The first one has more dispells, more units to give Blood tides, the second has better tanking thanks to the bloodcrusher (I love those models, but I can play them in other lists)

Personally I think priest is a must have, even more so than bloodsecrator in general (of course you also need bloodsecrator because of letter brick). That is if you have a shrine model. Without shrine you may drop him.

Out of those 2 lists I would pick the first one (provided you have shrine), but swap reavers+10pt for a bloodmaster. Your letter brick needs a hero near it all the time for locus and battleshock ignore CP ability.

 

I would try to go for Tyrants + Murderhost so you have an artifact for all you thirsters and a low drop count. Don't see how it's possible to fit it here without dropping either priest or letters to 20 though.

[AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion]

3 hours ago, ledha said:

How ? They kept the same damage output as before while going down 40 pts and doing aoe MW when they die.  And no one would have dare before to say they weren't main fighters.

They outlive and outdamage pretty much every other unit of their cost (they hit nearly as hard as brutes/paladins/blightkings), while being easy to use (2" range) and having an incredible support role in addition of this (and not in replacement)

I mean, for 5 wrathmongers, you can get 10 stormvermin, namaarti thralls or grimghast. None of them have the resilience and damage output of the wrathmongers, and bring nothing to the table for the rest of the army.

Yeah. Mongers seem very efficient stat-wise.

I think they are our best unit to use in a big brick. 10 dudes is a 30 wounds for 280pt that attack with long reach.

I think the bloodforged battalion is very underrated. Not for the ability, but for the unit composition.  You slap Skarr (who btw is our best mobility option for objective grabs) on top and run your 2x10 warriors 2x10 mongers forward to sit on objectives and what's opponent gonna do against that? It's a lot of wounds and attacks fighting in 2 rows with rows being independent units and they all do damage on death. It's also pretty cheap compared to our other compositions so you can have some harder hitting hammer units behind that ready to commit whenever.

[AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion]

13 hours ago, Kaz said:

Interesting to note. An attack buff to your Bloodletters effectively gets doubled with a Reapers. I still prefer Bloodcrushers and flesh Hounds, but i do think Bloodletters might still have a place... but they’re still too expensive right now imo

 

Yeah, I think  dogs and warriors currently make better frontline than letters. Letters are good second line hammer unit and a good summon.

[AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion]

1 hour ago, Glaidos said:

In what way can you counter it? I have no experience

One sure counter is UF thirster with his CP ability to pile-in from 6". During your turn you position yourself between 3" and 6" from gheist, now it can't fight before you smash it. In Reapers host you can double fight consecutively before the gheist goes.

Second is demon artifact in Bloodlords that makes you fight first and common artifact that makes you fight first on 4+. Again during your turn.

No idea how pure mortals do it. Maybe gheist can't chew through slaughterborn skullreapers well enough.  They have 2 dudes that pile-in from 8", but they are kinda weak to kill a gheist and can't double fight.

Another way is skullcrusher/bloodcrusher charge on mw ability, happens before combat. Will be kinda hard to charge gheist before it charges you though. Priests's pull ability should help.

[AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion]

21 hours ago, Sleboda said:

Thanks for the reply.

Yeah, I figured the error is one of the two things: Copypaste as you indicate, or at the top of the rule where it says it works on the wound roll when it may be that it's the hit roll.

Do you have a reference to a GW response that says it's the former? I think we can all have our feeling on what is the correct way to go, but I'd like to be able to play it correctly.

I have no GW response, but RAW it's "on 6s to wound" and the "don't make wound roll" after you made the roll already is nonsense rules-wise, so we have to live with "mws on 6 to wound" until they maybe update faq.

[AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion]

4 minutes ago, Ken said:

How do you get 40 attacks out of 10 Bloodletters?     +1 from Wrathmongers, +1 from Bloodsecrator takes you to 3.  Where does the 4th attack come from? 

Thanks. 

Reapers of Vengeance CP ability. With mongers it will be 60 in fact.

Paying CP for a small unit of letters may seem too much, but 20 letter attacks is a good trade for 1 CP in my book.

[AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion]

5 hours ago, Sleboda said:

I switched up my normal Bloodthirster's upgrades in my most recent game and ended up noticing something that appears to be an error, but I'm not sure if maybe I'm overlooking something.

Demon Trait Devastating Blow.

It says a wound roll of 6 does Mortal Wounds equal to the Damage of the weapon and then specifies you don't make a wound roll  or save roll.

Um, we've already rolled the wound roll, which is what triggered the  MWs.

Any ideas?

It's a copy pasted wording from the "mws on hit" abilities.

[AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion]

I think 1 judgment and 1 priest is 100% needed.  If you don't take them you don't fully use the allegiance. Axe is the best one, but you may not have points for it. If it's taking better unit + skulls/icon vs. taking weaker unit + axe I'd take skulls/icon.

Now the second one is a question and not so much because of judgments, but because of a priest. I think a priest is a bit weak for 100pt because he can't go far from the altar. Also, that's +1 drop in all but gore pilgrim lists.

[AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion]

Just got trashed in a small tourney 1-2. This was literally my first time playing new book though so I made a ton of mistakes.

List was:
1500 points
Reapers of vengeance
UF Thirster general w. scales
bloodmaster
3x10 letters
Charnel host
2x5 reapers
priest w. sacrifice & skulls
bloodsecrator w. skullshard

Game 1 minor win against Nurgle 3x fat demon battalion on Total commitment.
He had basically nothing except those 3 dudes and they had to stick together so I quickly overwhelmed one flank while delaying other with summons.
Loss on kills since I managed to down only 1 wounded big guy with thirster double tap.

On a side not playing wholly within army vs. within army is a very weird experience.

Game 2 major loss against Sylvaneth Alarielle+Drucha+chaff on a Battle for the pass.
I got dice downed at the start of my 3rd turn after he made his 3. I traded in thirster for objective clear up and had 8bp ready to summon a thister to kill some big guy of his, but it never happened so I basically entirely misplayed my BPs.
Skulls are damn good against monsters who want to cast bunch of spells and play forward like Alarielle.

Note to self: always keep at least 1 unit on home objective at all times since sylvaneth can now teleport their bark exosuits literally anywhere for free. I mistakenly thought they only can teleport from woods. I would actually won if I didn't give him free 4 points since final score was like 10-13 even with timeout.

Game 3 major loss against Nighthaunt Reikenor+cogs+60 ghasts on Focal points.
He has 1 drop less, gives me first turn, then charges with 60 ghasts and it's a giant melee between them and everything I have.
My misplays on sequencing combats cost me around probably 20-40 letter/reaper attacks so by t3 he goes too far ahead on score. I probably could've finished his bricks, there was like 4-6 guys left of each at this point.

On a side note Thirster sucks balls against unrendable army, UF whiffed a lot. Should've pumped CPs elsewhere.

Reapers blow away spooks in huge chunks. He would get destroyed by battleshock in 1 turn if he didn't have the CP restoring artifact on 5+ to make everything immune.

Some observations:
- skulls work differently than I expected. They basically do nothing turn 1, then do a whole lot turn 2 onwards. So despite being potent wizard counter they still can't stop turn 1 heavy wizarding. I wish we could have 2 BP turn 1 to auto counter mirror/cogs.
- amount of unbinds wasn't enough because of skulls underperformed turn 1. I think I want some dogs in here.
- 10x letters are great damage dealers for their price with all the force multiplier. 40 attacks with rend from 110pt unit for 1 CP that do mws? Yes please.
- sacrifice is great, going to be my default prayer unless I particularly want +save or +hit. He basically improves your summoning by 1 step each turn. I got off 10 letters summons every turn with him and 10 letters are 40 attacks as said in previous point.
- reapers are very good offensively, but they need to be single unit here. Ideally the fight order goes: reapers smash their target, letters/thirster pile in from safe 6 and double strike stuff before it even retaliates. With 2 units of reapers 1 unit get beaten before it hits.
- reapers aren't good enough defensively by a tiny bit. They want a +save or slaughterborn or both.
- UF thirster is amazing, basically you can pay 3 CPs (don't forget BPs can give you CPs) to double smash something 22" away from him (or 17" away from letters), you don't always need that 3rd CP since you can just roll well on run.

Conclusions: 
-Probably the murderhost battalion is better with the UF's ability.
-UF probably should have artifact to first strike on 4+. Antimagic here is decent already so he needs some melee trump and I think people will hesitate a lot before trying to charge first strike monster even if it's random. And scales won't save him from good shooting anyway.
-Maybe the reapers should be mongers instead. Imagine opponent charging your 2 units of letters with mongers behind them. You pay CP for double fight with both, now the one which he doesn't kill fights back with 60 attacks and then mongers also fight from safe 2".
-Army also don't want to go first like ever (although it's not very bad at it with all the punchback abilities) so I want to lower the drop count.
-Come  to think of it, Karanak teleport battalion from Wrath&Rapture would've punished all my 3 opponents pretty hard with their importnat heroes and low screen.

I think the synergy in the reapers host works best with mortal anvil and demon hammer. Using cheap demon battleline is okay since yo ucan resummon them, Mortals have a lot of fight on death abilities so they will make great first line and then your demons can kill stuff. I think thirster battallion is excessive and too all-in, it's better to have 2 thirsters or 1 UF+units ir 1 UF + 1 Archaon.
You know who would also be great? Skulltaker. Imagine him double tapping on a monster with his full rerolls and damage 3, it's like mini-terrorgheist with his 3 mws on 6.

Currently if I would play the list again I'd change it to:
UF thirster w. 4+ strike first
bloodmaster
2x5 dogs
10 letters
Murderhost
10x reapers
priest w. +save & skulls
bloodsecrator w. skullshard
And test if it's enough BP generation without sacrifice. If it's not then I'd try skullcrushers instead of reapers.

[AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion]

We can't win against Fyredudes and DoK head-on. We have comparable offensive power, but they are much better defensively, as soon as they get to fight they blow us out. We have to outcombat them with chain pile ins and long pile ins that only demons provide.

Also don't forget for skullreapers you can reroll successfull hits to fish for 6s, that almost doubles their mw output against those enemies with good saves.

I think priest may be better used to pull units outside of their wholly within buff bubbles rather than trying to shoot things with blood boil.

Fyredudes have a bit of a weakness that they have that one big burst of speed in the beginning, but later when they disperse to objectives they are left with move 4" so it's hard for them to relocate. Maybe summoning small demon units to screen against their big blob of berserkers while you score is another way to win without beating them in combat.

[AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion]

1 hour ago, Sleboda said:

New (also probably very obvious answer) question:

I had dismissed the Fury Bloodthirster as a bad choice. Then, about two hours ago, it hit me. A Murderhost unit moves up the table on a run, getting 4 inches from the enemy. So sad, can't charge because we ran.

 

But wait.

 

Combat rules say you can pick a unit to fight that either charged or is within the pile in distance. Does that actually mean that with a 6" pile in that unit can slam in? WTF? Really?

Yeah, it's basically army-wide run+charge 6, retreat+charge and strike first CP ability during your turn.

[AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion]

20 hours ago, Battlefury said:

Looking to create a tournament list for the next tournament.

We have 1250 points limit, with the army plan of 1k points. It is being played on a 48" x 48" table.
The scenario is "Focal Points".

Until now, all my army compositions got battered to dust, so as today against Fyreslayers.

Would you have any ideas, where to start with?
I do own a lot of units, but really have no clue anymore, where to start building.

The standart armies, I will face are:

Stormcast Eternals with Ballista, Sequitor & Evocator combo
More Stormcasts Eternals
Fyreslayers
Leagions of N. with no ghosts
Ironjawz
 

Battalion are not an option at this point level I think.

The autotake things are priest with skulls and unfettered fury thirster.

Now we need 2x battleline and more hammer units and also keep the drop count low.

Personally I would take 2x dogs as battleline, their mobility is appreciated for Focal points and they can skip taking bloodsecrator.

As hammers you can have 2x insensate rage and a CP or 1x insensate rage and 10x skullreapers,  latter will require downgrading one dog unit to reaver unit, but is less susceptible to shooting.

Host is Reapers of vengeance to make the most  of thirsters. There isn't a host to help mortal hammer units as much anyway.

Priest prayer will have to be +hit for insensate rage dudes or +blood tithe for cp generation.

If that doesn't work then nothing works. I don't think mortal builds are good at this level since you can't build a big enough slaughterborn for 1250.

[AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion]

So, the new boat dude can transport 30 32mm dudes 12" forward turn 1, and the dudes may still move after that.

Time for allying some wizards?

[AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion]

5 hours ago, Retro said:

Does anyone else feel like this special weapons issue would be resolved if we had a points system reintroduced for them?

Like 1 in 10 bloodwarriors can take a glaive, but it costs X points, and obviously apply this to all units in all armies with special weapons. 

Edit: I am also aware that this would need to be more of an AoS 3.0 sort of fix, not an FAQ or errata.

Special weapons are hostages of kit, not points. The kit has 1 glaive per 10 dudes so the unit is forever doomed to have 1 glaive per 10 dudes.

What they should've done is give glaive 2 more attacks to compensate.

 

And no, the points per special weapon is not a good idea. If glaive is limited to 1 per 10 dudes anyway then what's the point of having point cost of it? It is assumed that unit cost reflects their special weapons already.