Landohammer
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Posts posted by Landohammer
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Here are the top 5 tricks to doing well in competitive play
1) Screen
2) Screen
3) Screen
4) Build your army around the scenarios you expect to play
5) Screen
Combat can be particularly brutal in AOS. There are units and armies that can wipe out your primary units before they even get to swing and in many cases they can reach you as early as turn 1.
Screening is the easiest and most reliable method of preventing that. Its a simple but powerful concept, because it essentially takes away their priority. Now they won't be able to determine when they get into combat, and have to rely on scoring the double turn or eliminating your screen via other phases.
This is partly why the Inspiring Presence command ability is so powerful. Because what if they fail to kill your screen unit? Even just 1-2 surviving models of a decimated unit can then stick around and tie up your opponent's model's for another turn. You've essentially turned your cheap crappy unit into a weapon.
But screening also works with single model units. For example, dropping a 70pt Gyrocopter right in front of their 30 Witch Elves. Now your opponent has to choose between going around the Gyrocopter and wasting valuable movement, or wasting a turn killing it. This is a popular trick with Endless Spells.
Finally make sure you read up on the GHB and BRB scenarios. Some of them are pretty wacky and many experienced players have done poorly because they ended up playing a scenario they weren't prepared for.
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On 4/10/2020 at 4:15 PM, Vongolo said:
Thanks for the suggestions! I comed up with a list, what do you think?
Tempest eye
Sorceress, general:hawk eyed, aura of glory
Fleetmaster, adjutant, zephirite banner
Hurricanum with mage
30x corsairs
20x dreadapears, retinue
20x darkshard
20x black guard
3x gyrocopters (anti horde)
2x gunhaulers (heavier targets)
Emerald lifeswarm
Nice! I actually find Gyrocopters to be great but better in single units. If you are going to take Black Guard I would recommend you go ahead and bump it up to 30. They have 2" range and can really capitalize on larger units. A unit of 30 near the Sorceress is quite terrifying since that will be 61 attacks hitting on 2's.
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5 hours ago, Alessio said:
I'm starting assembling a Sylvaneth army, how many sylvaneth wyldwood do you have on avarage?
Let's say playing 2000p games
How many should I buy? But probably it dipends by my playstyle.
What size do you usually can field in games?( 3,4,5,6 elements wood)
Welcome! This is a fairly common question in this thread so there are already a lot of good answers.
In short: You definitely need at least two. The wood to wood teleport is the main reason for summoning woods, so if you don't have two then you are missing out on one of our strongest allegiance abilities.
Three is probably a good goal. If your table is properly terrained then summoning more than 3 can become pretty difficult.
Note that the old Citadel Wood models are generally cheaper and easier to transport than the newer Awakened Wildwoods. I would recommend 1 new kit +2 old kits.
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On 4/12/2020 at 3:47 AM, Trevelyan said:
This baffles me on both fronts, to the point that I wonder whether they are connected.
When I play Gnarlroot, I put down forests fairly consistently in places that I want them to be. I have multiple treelords to ensure I have options for my Silent Communion, and use casting buffs to reliably cast Verdant Blessing. Either option lets me place a Wyldwood 1” away from enemy units and Awakening the Wyldwood hits enemy units within 3” of the wood.
In the first turn, you can quite comfortably drop a wood in front of one or more enemy units, cast the spell as a softener and then do your usual teleport and charge. I don’t get to fight every fight against every opponent in range of a wood, but neither does every opponent get to ignore them completely. If you are using woods well then you should get at least some down in places where your opponent doesn’t have the option. Absolute worst case, if you’ve parked units in a wood near an objective then your opponent has to either move in or give you the advantage of charging next turn. And you can comfortably have units in a wood controlling an objective.
All of which requires that you have the ability to cast spells regularly. I suspect you underestimate how much Gnarlroot brings on that front. Giving the Chalice of Nectar to a TLA is very potent - you get the bonus to any spell you cast or unbind. It makes the above viable combo fairly reliable (TLA to summon a free wood then cast his spell). Combine that with the Vesperal Gem on a TLA warlord to consistently cast Verdurous Harmony on a unit of Hunters and gain the extra d3 command trait heal (for wounded Hunters or other units) and you’ve got a chunk of reliable magic and healing, even in the fact of armies that usually make it much harder.
But if you don’t play Gnarlroot and don’t like TLAs then I suspect you have far fewer Wyldwoods on the table so don’t have as many engagements near them. Which in turn means that you don’t get value from the spell, etc. It’s not that Awakening the Wood is “really really bad”, just that you don’t play a game with the other moving parts that enable you to benefit from it.
Chalice of Nectar on a TLA is potent, I agree. But you are sacrificing access to Winterleaf and Dreadwood to get your potent TLA. I think the cost is just too high.
I understood this conversation to be "Gnarlroot can make TLAs decent" which is probably a fair point. But lets not get that confused with "Gnarlroot TLAs lists are competitive". That would imply that Gnarlroot is in the same realm of competitiveness as Winterleaf or Dreadwood and that's obviously not the case.
In fact, one could argue that a Dreadwood TLA is actually stronger since it gets access to the Dreadwood command ability on top of its forest, possibly giving you two teleports on turn 1. He also is one of the best carriers of the Jewel of Withering (-1 to Wound) on top of being able to cast Spiteswarm Hive itself. Now that's a TLA I can get behind!
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So I actually love using darkshards and dreadpears as my battleline in my Living City list but TBH they are good cheap battleline for any city. So you definitely have a good set of units to start with.
With your models I would probably go with Tempest Eye for the run+shoot command ability as well as the Hawk Eyed command trait (+1 to wound on missile weapons within 12"). That would make your Corsairs and Darkshards particularly scary. I think you also get like a +5 to runs in your first turn.
Anvil Guard is a bit more fluffy though, and you have a good start on the units you need for the Anvil Guard Battalion which is decent.
I would make your first purchase definitely be a Sorceress (maybe even two!) Great cheap caster with some useful abilities.
Next up I would buy some heavy melee hitters. Black Guard are solid and would be able to synergize well with a Sorceress. After that any Cities unit you like is fair game. Steam Tanks, Frost Phoenix, Evocators,etc are all popular choices.
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16 minutes ago, SylvanHunter said:
I agree with Landohammer, and I would add one more thing: Split your Greatsword Hunters into 2 squads of 3. The swords only have 1" range so they cannot swing in 2 ranks, and on a turn you haven't charged you'll be using Tanglethorn Thicket so your pile-in will only be 1" as well, making your threat range only 2" on a model just under 2" wide, making it difficult to get all 6 in combat unless you're swarmed which won't last long due to their incredible effectiveness against hordes. You'll also get an extra Huntmaster that hits on 2's which is always nice! The Scythes are your big squad, they make a good defensive unit, your swords are your min squad you throw into stuff. Also with a hunter heavy list you'll want to bring the Gladewyrm for heals, and the Spiteswarm Hive to get them across the table or reroll 1's to saves on a turn they're about to charge. Personally I would drop the Branchwraith, Forest Folk Battalion, Cogs, and command point, drop the 30 dryads to 20, swap one of the dryad min squads for 5x Tree-Revenants (Rend, and Waypipes are awesome), and instead grab the Gladewyrm, Emerald Lifeswarm, Spiteswarm Hive, and Durthu, and split those swords into 2 squads of 3. I like to put Durthu in a Hunter heavy list, but I'm a Heartwood player so that's what I like to run. Winterleaf is obviously strong, and the 6's extra hit counts on Durthu's 6 damage sword so put him by a wildwood and smash face.
If he drops the Branchwraith he will have 3 endless spells on a single caster. As it stands he has 3 casts (with thrones) so he would be going from 3 casts to 1 cast but only saving 20 points. Also I prefer Regrowth over Lifeswarm, and regrowth is free!
Yea going with 2x3 or 6 Greatswords is kind of the age old debate. Either is fine IMHO. In this particular situation I think he should stick with 6 since he is attempting a teleport alpha strike. He can only send one unit per turn, so 6 would maximize the impact (and help him survive countercharges).
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On 4/5/2020 at 10:54 AM, Kitsumy said:
Melee thralls for sure.
They must have 2um on his weapons and 7 bravery , rigth now they are totally useless since they are elite unit that only fight in 1 row when 90% of others same units fight in 2 rows.
So they will loose every combat versus any non minimal sized unit. And with his joke bravery despite being elves, and bad armor save, they will be fully wiped after every atack who target them.
So 2 range is a must, and higher bravery would be welcome too. In order to make them playable, they would be papermade yes, but at least they could kill something.
While I do consider Thralls uncompetitive, I don't think they are a contender for the worst.
They have an elite elf statline which is great. In fact, they actually out perform many elite elves model for model. I had a small unit of 7 put 10 wounds on my Lord of change in a single combat. Yes other elite Elves can do that, but not in unconditional battleline.
So I think units of 10 are externally balanced, even if their 32mm bases are a bit ridiculous. (I agree they should have 25 inch bases or get range 2")
What absolutely neuters them are having access to Eels in battleline. So I wouldn't call Thralls bad, just very poorly internally balanced.
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2 hours ago, Alessio said:
I'm very indecided about the cogs because I took it in order to have +2 charge bonus with my units in reserve when they pop up and the fact that I can cast it far away with my branchwraith(2 spell artefact) out range of enemy dispelling and with a +2 (throne of vines) that gives me more probabilities, or maybe I just don't know how to use the spiteswarm hive. I see hard to cast it with my TLA (who is closer to the enemy and the units that I want to make charging) with no bonuses in range of enemies dispelling and all my units have to be entirely within 8" of the endless spell, I just see too hard to make all of that and a 9" charge we know, doesn't always make it.
How do you use the spiteswarm hive?
Thanks for your help
So the biggest drawback to Cogs is that it buffs your opponent too. Spiteswarm is 30pts cheaper, gives +3 instead of +2, and only buffs sylvaneth units. It can also activate in your opponents turn to give you a small buff.
The trick is that you have to abandon the idea of deepstriking (which is always risky bc you can be zoned out). And instead just do a forest teleport. Here is my method.
Deploy Hunters in free wood
Summon second wood
Cast Spiteswarm
Activate Spiteswarm to buff Hunters. Extra points if you have both hunter units in range in case you roll a 1 on Venom
Teleport Hunters
Charge at +3 (rerollable always)
Note that this is actually the core strategy behind Dreadwood armies, since they can teleport anywhere on the battlefield and aren't reliant on a second wood (or a TLA). So you may want to consider that Glade as well.
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52 minutes ago, Alessio said:
Can I use the Hunters ability for re-rollings saves in combat if I made a charge in the same turn?
Also I'm new to sylvaneth and i'm trying to think some lists and I'd like your opinions about this. Thanks!
Treelord Ancient (260)
- General
- Command Trait : My Heart Is Ice
- Deepwood Spell : RegrowthBranchwraith (80)
- Artefact : Spiritsong Stave
- Deepwood Spell : Throne of VinesArch-Revenant (100)
- Artefact : Frozen KernelUNITS
30 x Dryads (270)
10 x Dryads (100)
10 x Dryads (100)
6 x Kurnoth Hunters (400)
- Greatswords
6 x Kurnoth Hunters (400)
- ScythesBATTALIONS
Forest Folk (140)ENDLESS SPELLS / TERRAIN / COMMAND POINTS
Chronomantic Cogs (80)
Extra Command Point (50)That's a solid and fun list! Thats exactly how I field my Kurnoth Hunters.
Unfortunately the Tanglethorn Thicket ability triggers at the start of the charge phase, so performing a charge would turn it off.
If I had to nitpick your list (and this is me really stretching) I would say drop Cogs for either Balewind Vortex or maybe some of the Sylvaneth Endless Spells. Cogs is great but super pricey. Spiteswarm Hive and/or Balewind fill similar roles and can't be turned against you.
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2 hours ago, Trevelyan said:
I can only assume that you don’t rate the TLA spell because you don’t play with TLAs and therefore don’t cast Awaken the Wood very often. If you genuinely think that a 6 cast spell that can inflict mortal wounds on multiple units at a time is bad then I start to wonder what your basis for comparison actually is.
The other mistake is treating TLA and Branchwraith as an either/or choice. It clearly isn’t. You can have a Branchwraith sitting in your back lines in relative safety while your TLA is supporting frontline units.
How much do you want to bet I don’t give a glade artefact to a TLA? Seriously, name any price, because I’ve already mentioned Gnarlroot, and if you think I’m wasting the Chalice of Nectar on a Branchwraith to let it summon marginally more Dryads over the course of a game then you really don’t understand that glade. So yes, I regularly give the glade artefact to a TLA.
I do give a Stave to a Branchwraith if I take one, but it is rarely my first choice of artefact to take.
Durthu doesn’t actually have to stay near a wood. It certainly helps if he does, but he does work even without a wood nearby. I prefer Drycha too, but Durthu isn’t split between ‘woods = good’ and ‘no woods = bad’. The woods make him better, and even a skilled opponent can’t hide from woods all of the time - a skilled Sylvaneth player should be able to tip the balance and pick where to fight too at least some of the time. This is pertinent to the TLA discussion, because forcing fights near woods also increases the value of the TLA spell.
If you would never ever ever ever etc condone more than one TLA, I’m curious to know how you would build a Gnarlroot list.
I'm sorry but the TLA spell is bad. Its really really bad. In competitive play, nobody hangs out near my woods. Like ever. Especially multiple units. In nearly every situation I find Regrowth preferable. But yes, if I don't have any wounds on my monsters, and have several enemy units near a forest within range. I may opt to cast the warscroll spell.
I admittedly don't play gnarlroot. I have found that any kind of magic investment is not a good idea in today's meta. There are a lot of armies that just shut down magic, including Tzeentch, Nagash, Khorne, or any list with Archaon. Besides, if I want my wizards to hit hard, winterleaf is just flat out better and doesn't come with any kind of prequisite for the buff.
I'm not going to knock anyone for playing different and fun lists, but competitively I just don't see Gnarlrool+TLA lists standing up in any tourney I have been to.
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2 minutes ago, Trevelyan said:
A Branchwraith plus Treelord are better than a TLA? The Treelord is arguably a better melee fighter insofar as it gets one more attack, although the TLA has the better ranged attack. But is the Branchwraith a better caster than the TLA? Outside of summoning Dryads, it doesn’t do much - the Branchwraith has fewer wounds and worse saves so dies more easily in spite of Blessings of the Forest. It can’t support front line units nearly as well. Saying that the Branchwraith is a better than the TLA is akin to arguing that apples are better than oranges because you’ve presupposed that’s everyone likes apple juice.
The traits and artefacts are going on Durthu so the TLA gets no credit for being able to take them? Again, that presupposes that you are taking Durthu and not taking enough artefacts for other units. The Vesperal Gem is one of the strongest artefacts we have but you certainly won’t be giving that to Durthu.
Bracketing the TLA does hurt, but that’s common to all monsters in AoS and citing it as your big personal issue seems strange. Dropping from three to two melee attacks is harsh - it represents a 33% drop in melee combat effectiveness (ignoring Impale). But you’re clearly a fan of Durthu, and what happens when he drops by a few damage points? Durthu goes from a flat 6 damage to a variable d6 damage on his melee attacks for an effective 42% drop in melee combat effectiveness. Why give Durthu a pass when he drops more than the TLA?
I wouldn’t advocate taking multiple TLAs in every list. But they are serious value in Gnarlroot where you want them supporting melee units up front (Branchwraith need not apply) and you probably aren’t taking a Durthu to begin with. Gnarlroot gives them a 2+ hit reroll 1s ranged attack and 3+ hit reroll 1s melee attacks all doing d6 damage. That’s more reliable than you’d expect before you add in the spells, the battalion bonus (LotC is worth taking in Gnarlroot) and the support for other units. I’m guessing you’ve never tried it, but it is worth a go.
Branchwraith vs TLA as wizards: The difference comes down to the warscroll spell. The branchwraith has one of our best warcroll spells while the TLA has one of our worst. In addition, you have your caster separated from your tank, so you don't lose your caster when you sacrifice your treelord to a scary unit. The shooting attack is admittedly pretty strong. But I would still prefer a chance at 10 dryads a turn!
Factoring in second artefacts also kinda turns this argument upside down, because you are paying a tax for those and they can drastically improve a unit's performance. Is your TLA + gem better than my TL+BW? Yes, but it should be bc you buffed him with a 100pt item. I I bet your free Glade artefact isn't going on your TLA. If we wanted to compare buffed characters, I think the BW with the Stave is even stronger. Because she can use throne to buff her spells to the point that she gets 10 dryads+a forest every turn guaranteed.
Sorry if I seem like a Durthu apologist. I actually don't like him that much. Having to stay near a forest is crippling vs experienced opponents. For beatstick characters I prefer Drycha or Alarielle. The mobility is clutch.
All monsters bracket, but the TLA is one of the worst brackets I have ever seen on a monster at this points level. With that said, I will admit the TLA is still an ok option in certain lists. But I will never ever ever ever condone two in a list.
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I think the intent is to minimize the power level of certain warlord trait/artefact combos, especially when combined with subfaction abilities.
On paper this is a good thing and seems like good game design. It limits the amount of combos that have to be reviewed. Also, many of the subfaction buffs are very strong, so the forced traits/artefacts can be viewed as another balancing mechanism to particularly powerful subfactions. It also adds variety to duplicates of the same army. A Sylvaneth Wintlerleaf list is very different from a Sylvaneth Dreadwood list.
In practice, it doesn't work. GW hasn't quite mastered properly balancing subfactions so 1-2 outliers end up dominating the rest and 90% of the subfactions get ignored altogether. So we see the same artefacts/traits in every list.
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18 hours ago, Trevelyan said:
None of his abilities could stack. Heed the Spirit Song rerolls 1s however many times you might apply it and none of the others are stackable to begin with. You lose out on multiple Awakening the Woods spells (but see option below) but you can give each of them different alternate spells, or even the same spell and decide which casts - between Awakening, summoning a wood an casting your chosen spell there are options for three TLAs to cast different spells with an identical selection.
I assume you are really talking about Silent Communion being once per game and not once per unit. I find that a fairly weak argument insofar as a) having multiple TLA still gives you greater choice of where you put the free Wyldwood - don’t underestimate the value of being unpredictable/having options; and b) summoning a Wyldwood is not the only reason to take a TLA in the first place.
The primary reason to take a TLA is that it combines a durable second line wizard with a reasonable ranged attack and adequate melee? Plus it lets you bring another Stomp. There is enough value in the TLA aside from Silent Communion that it would be valid (maybe at a slight discount) even without it.
We are gonna have to agree to disagree on this one. A single TLA is already a stretch, but I can see the value in the free forest and command trait. Its a good way to guarantee a second forest hits the table, Durthu and Dryads LOVE that command ability.
However, competitively, a vanilla treelord and a branchwraith are just better for the same exact points. You get a better fighter, and a better caster. So duplicating TLAs is just exacerbating the shortfall.
Yes the TLA has access to traits and artefacts, but lets be honest, those are usually going on a Durthu or an Archie.
My personal issue with TLA is the bracket. After 3 wounds he goes down to 2 attacks plus impale. That is insane for a 260pt monster. Thats an average of like 2 wounds. You would get more damage out of 5 Spites.
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1 hour ago, Popisdead said:
What do you think of 3 Ancients and a Treelord? Too much? I just have a fondness for the big guys. I have day dreams of 4 Treelords AND them being effective. ... room to dream I guess.
I don't think there is ever a reason to bring multiple Ancients. None of his abilities stack.
The free tree summon is once per battle regardless of how many ancients you have. The command ability is fine but you don't really need 3 copies of it. The warscroll spell is just trash.
I would stick to 3 Treelord models at the absolute most. And build them as Durthu, Treelord Ancient, and Treelord.
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1 hour ago, Trevelyan said:
I’ve used Gotrek in a few casual games.
I find that he lives up to the hype if he actually gets to fight things, but in practice his low speed makes him easy to avoid. More often than not (3 out of 4 games) he gets left largely alone. That does give him some ability to control an area of the table and dominate an objective, but sitting in a big bubble with no one to play with seems like a waste of the points.
He is comedy value In Warcry, though.
So in all my games vs Gotrek, I have actually had trouble avoiding him lol. There are a lot of scenarios with very few objectives. Many (perhaps most) have between 1 and 3, and eventually Gotrek will get to one and have to be dealt with. He is going to kill any unit he touches. Probably in 1 combat.
Knife to Heart scenario is extremely popular as a closer for tournaments, and Gotrek is particularly brutal on that.
My opponents tended to dump CP into him though. The guaranteed 6's on runs are crucial to getting him across the board.
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On 3/16/2020 at 2:35 PM, Zanzou said:
B) What would you change about our faction to see them reaching 50% win rates at tournaments?
1) More non-character units. Some of the most powerful armies (basically all of Chaos) have a very large selection of units and allies that supplement their weaknesses well. Having more tools to solve a problem is generally a solid base for good performance.
2) Less restrictions on forest placement, and the ability to summon 2 (separate) pre-game. Skaven and Deepkin get two pieces of terrain. I think we should too. Our primary allegiance ability hinges on getting a spell off or bringing a Treelord Ancient.
3) Groundshaking Stomp should go off on a 3+. Making Treelords more reliable will put them back on the table and give us a better chance in the activation wars.
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I am limited to the armies I have played with/against so take mine with a grain of salt. I am also excluding grand allegiance warscrolls since they aren't meant to be competitive.
1- Liberators - These guys are particularly tragic since they are essentially the poster child of AOS. Many people end up with them because they were in the original AOS starter. You could double their attacks and drop their cost and they would still stink.
2- Ylthari - I know a-lot of the underworld crossover warscrolls are painful, but this one is the worst of all. She is like adding a worse Branchwych to a worse unit of Tree Revenants and then paying a 20pt tax. On top of not filling a battleline slot.
3-Kurnoth Hunters with Bows - Awesome model, but eclipsed by nearly every shooting unit in the game. However a few people have build entire armies around them and have had some success.
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On 3/16/2020 at 2:35 PM, Zanzou said:
So I see that the last few updates from honest wargamer have sylvaneth at a tournament win rate of 38.5 - 40 percent.
A) do you think this is a problem with our faction or is it just the constant power creep? Even skaven is now at 44%...
B) What would you change about our faction to see them reaching 50% win rates at tournaments?
I know this is a delayed response, but here are my thoughts on why Sylvaneth are dropping lower in the tourneys lately.
1) The biggest reason is power creep. New codexes are dropping at an unprecedented level. and to be fair, we kind of got boned on our codex update. The only real change in power level came in the form of Glades and some gradual price drops several months later.
2) Hard Counters - At the end of the day, Sylvaneth are a combat army. Yes we have some movement and magic shenanigans, but we generally win games by out-fighting our opponent. Unfortunately there are armies that can easily counter that strength. Better fighty armies (slaanesh/khorne), or armies than can constantly summon/raise new models, (Death armies) or super shooty armies (Tzeentch/Cities) just straight up counter us.
3 ) Cities of Sigmar - The living city eclipsed us a bit in that they get to cherry pick our strongest units (Hunters and Drycha) while also having access to a very diverse and powerful set of units, artefacts, allegiance abilities and spells. I love the fluff of that city, but can't help but wonder if it might have inadvertently made Sylvaneth obsolete. Why should I field Dryads when I can get Phoenix Guard, Hammerers, Sisters of the Watch, or Great Swords as battleline?
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5 hours ago, SkiRootz said:
Archaon piling in and ignoring the charge phase saved him from the stomps and he killed alarielle + 2 Durthus before the General with seek new fruit killed archaon and cleaned up the rest of big threats. However, with the lack of woods and model count I lost heavily via objectives.
Wow, to be fair that is a pretty specific counter for Durthu. It specifically avoids the Stomp and Archaon can easily kill Durthu if he activates first.
I'm not even sure how to counter that aside from bubble-wrapping your models. Most of my opponents who run Archaon lists actually prefer Nurgle for the run+charge provided by the Trees. So that is an interesting (and effective!) strategy.
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2 hours ago, Kiekeboe said:
Thanks! About the need for Wyldwoods: I thought that would be the case. That's why I don't understand how that list did 4-1 with both Alarielle and the Branchwraith running Regrowth and no Throne. Personally I think I would replace one Durthu with an Ancient for the guaranteed wood while keeping the stomp and, like you said, putting Ghyrstrike and Silent Sickle on the two Durthus.
I'm sure that guy's Alarielle was still probably attempting Verdant Blessing every chance she got. He may have just opted for Regrowth rather than Throne. I wouldn't do that personally but being able to heal a Durthu D6+D3 every turn is scary. Keeping Durthu in his top bracket is pretty clutch.
I know that Harvestboon is the "Durthu" glade. But Winterleaf is probably just as good. The exploding 6's would affect all of your units all of the time, and the Frozen Kernel is absolutely stunning on a fully buffed Durthu.
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23 hours ago, Kiekeboe said:
I found that list online as well when I was browsing successful lists and it really intrigued me. I like to play LotC and lists with lots of Treelord (variants) because the stomps are game changers and I simply love the models - but 3 Durthus I haven't tried yet. Any idea how this would work? What the general game plan would be? I'm trying to wrap my head around it while I wait for someone to test this list against.
Would you throw your pre-game wood forwards, try to cast one in your backline, and alpha strike all Durthus forward on your first turn - or don't lean on your woods too much since the list doesn't have an ancient or throne of vines on Alarielle?
Keep your Durthus together and move forward killing everything in their way or split them up and go for different objectives/threats?
And what would Alarielles main contribution be? Fly to an objective and drop 20 dryads, or drop another Treelord for even more stompy goodness?So many questions but come on, Alarielle and 3 Durthus, I need this list to work so bad. These models are why I started Sylvaneth so I most definitely need to play this list at least once.
Thanks for any input
A triple Durthu list would hinge on your ability to reliably put down forests. Durthu just isn't worth his points without a forest nearby. Normally I would recommend you bring an Acorn, but Ghyrstrike is simply too good to pass up on, so you will be leaning on Alarielle to summon the woods.
So just make sure she casts Throne of Vines+Verdant Blessing+Metamorphosis every single turn. I would try to target vulnerable units with Metamorphosis for the possibility of a free forest summon.
If I am being perfectly honest, Durthu really needs both a forest and an Artefact to be competitive, and realistically you will only have two artefacts. So that makes the third Durthu significantly less efficient. I would actually encourage you to use those points for a Drycha or Kurnoth Hunters. If you really want a third Treelord on the table, just let Alarielle summon one.
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1 hour ago, readercolin said:
Page 7 of the core rulebook:
Once all of a unit’s attacks have been resolved, add up the damage that was inflicted. The player commanding the target unit must then allocate a number of wounds to the target unit equal to the damage that was inflicted.
As you can see here, all the attacks go through first, and then wounds are allocated. Since all of the attacks must go through first, you therefore have to finish all of your attacks, then all of your saves from all weapon profiles before you start allocating wounds. If there is any question about something like mortal wounds dealt through the attacking phase, ex. "Mortal Wounds on 6's". The section on mortal wounds says this:
MORTAL WOUNDS Some attacks, spells and abilities inflict mortal wounds. Do not make hit, wound or save rolls for mortal wounds. Instead, the damage inflicted on the target is equal to the number of mortal wounds that were suffered. Allocate any mortal wounds that are caused while a unit is attacking at the same time as any other wounds caused by the unit’s attacks, after all of the unit’s attacks have been completed. Mortal wounds caused at other times are allocated to models in the target unit as soon as they occur, in the same manner as wounds caused
This would mean that if you have a unit (ex. sisters of the watch) that deal mortals on 6's to hit, those wounds are dealt at the same time as all the rest of the wounds from the attack. This means that the unit would still have the +1 to save from 10+ models in the unit.
Basically, there is one situation where you can kill dryads and remove their save. This is if you have something like "mortal wounds on a charge". Deal 1 mortal on the charge, and then they are down to 9 before you begin your attacks.
Dang thanks for the answer! Good to know. That makes our Dryad summoning quite a bit stronger than I expected. That's 10 wounds at -1 to hit with a 3+ save and immunity to battleshock (if the woods are a place of power).
To put that in perspective, it would take nearly 100 attacks of 3+/3+/0/1 to pick that unit up.
That also clarifies whether or not you can gain cover mid-casualties. You actually wouldn't gain it until another unit attacked you.
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On 3/12/2020 at 7:08 AM, Trevelyan said:
Important distinction - they get +1 to save as long as they have “10 or more models.” That distinction matters, because a unit summoned by a Branchwraith gets +1 to save at the outset, which wouldn’t be the case if they needed “over 10 models.”
Good point. Here is a dumb question. What if 10 Dryads are being attacked by a unit with multiple melee profiles? Would they lose the +1 save if the first profile causes a wound? Or would you wait until all of the wounds are allocated before pulling models?
I understand that you can be "killed into cover" if your unit is partially in cover and takes a lot of wounds from multiple sources. So I'm wondering if this is a similar situation.
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So I know you bought the Cities book, but based on your original post it looks like you favor human models and would prefer an army akin to a Space Marine force.
If that is the case, I would actually encourage you to make a Stormcast Eternal army, and perhaps ally in some Cities of Sigmar units. Stormcasts are the direct parallel to space marines, and they are a fantastic starter army since they are low model count and have multiple "starter" boxes still widely available.
If that is the case, the Stormcast Eternal Exorcism Soulstrike box is a great deal and you can still find a few around for about $160 US.
Then you can use your remaining budget to buy some Free People units such as Greatswords, a Steamtank, or maybe some artillery.
Making an all human Cities army might be a bit tricky, since Free Peoples don't actually have a start collecting box. You would have to buy each unit at full price and they are a high model count army.
Also note that unlike 40k, almost all of AOS rules are free and easily accessable via the App. So books and datacards aren't always necessary. Once you memorize your allegiance and chapter abilities, you can really just leave your book at home.
AoS 2 - Living City Discussion
in Cities of Sigmar
Posted
So I have been list building with some of my old 8th ed WHF models and I think I found some pretty cool synergy in a strange place. Dwarfs!
So some of the Dwarf units have pretty impressive statlines. But they remain mediocre due to their 4 inch movement and lack of access to magic/movement shenanigans. But Living City overcomes those weaknesses.
Consider this as a basis for a list. Runelord as your warlord with the Druid command trait and as many Hammerers as you can afford!
The Runelord unlocks Hammerers as Battleline. He also has a +2 Unbind. But now he is a wizard that can cast-1 to Wound on the Hammerers. Additionally Hammerers get immunity to Battleshock while they are within 12" of the Runelord. And the runelord can pray on a 2+ to give the Hammerers +1 Rend. Thats a lot of mileage out of a 90pt character without an Artefact and without the need for CP.
So the runelord and Hammerers deepstrike and declare a charge at +1 (rerollable with your spare CP).
Here are some additional units that synnergize well.
-Frost Phoenix for a potential -2 to wound
-Chronomantic Cogs so your Hammerers get +3 to their charge
-Gyrocopters so they can move/shoot/move/drop bombs
-Warden King for +1 attack on the Hammerers
Just thought I would share!