Landohammer
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Posts posted by Landohammer
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So far the changes are all looking great. The changes to acolytes is *really* interesting, especially if they get access to allegiance spells.
Also the Locus effectively makes all Daemon characters -1 to hit in melee. Thats a huge buff for LoC.
Pink Horrors could really become insane if they manage to get -1 to hit.
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1 hour ago, Grimrock said:
Also the fluff covers khorne at least. Apparently the chaotic corruption caused by the gathering of Khorne's forces causes the altars to just kind of... Come up out of the ground. Along with the more typical cracks, spikes, lava, rivers of blood, etc.
More on topic, faction terrain or the lack of it really isn't an advantage in and of itself. Speaking of khorne, their terrain is pretty strong by allowing prayer rerolls and debuffing nearby wizards but those rules could have just been added to the normal list of allegiance abilities. Take slaves to darkness, their auras are tied to heroes but could have easily just been tied to a terrain piece instead. Having it on terrain or heroes or as part of a battalion or command ability... It's all the same thing in the end. What matters is if the army as a whole is balanced/strong or not. Honestly not having terrain can be seen as a huge plus because you don't have to drop a bunch of time and money on a kit just so you can access your allegiance ability.
Exactly. They essentially just pulled an allegiance/general buff out of the army and put it on something you have to buy.
Khorne may have been a bad example since they do have some strange tendencies to build brass stuff. Deepkin, Gloomspite, Ogors, and Slaanesh are more obvious offenders when it comes to spontaneous terrain generation.
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1 hour ago, LordPrometheus said:
Sylvaneth is a bit of a different animal, because the faction is literally built around their terrain. I do agree about overcrowded tables. Trying to get woods down in good locations is a crapshoot.
So I could write a novel on why the Wyldwoods are a problem mechanically, but at least the terrain fits in with the fluff of the army. However most of the other faction terrain just feel like they were tacked on as a cash grab. I can see Alarielle summoning a woods on a battlefield, but are Slaanesh followers gonna haul around a mirror the size of a building? Do Khornates take the time to construct an altar when battle is imminent?
They really only benefit their faction under a specific set of circumstances and are more often than not forgotten about/disregarded early on in games. I feel like Tzeentch terrain would have been similar. I imagine we would have got a $50 giant bird statue that lets you reroll 1's to cast while wholly within 6 inches" or something similar.
I wish the time/money/talent had went into creating more units.
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1 hour ago, LordPrometheus said:
I'm hoping for that as well, but I was specifically talking about why some armies in the game just don't get terrain at all. It's a huge buff, and if you're going to give it to some of them, why not all of them?
1 hour ago, Prometheo567 said:To me, the fact that none of the armies army was shown with a terrain piece actually gives me hope that they simply haven't shown said pieces in the article.
So my main army is Sylvaneth, and let me tell you that faction terrain is overrated. Its expensive, generally doesn't contribute much, and is a pain to transport.
Also, tournaments tend to overcrowd tables with terrain making it exceedingly difficult to place it anywhere meaningful.
One of my biggest issues with AOS nowadays is the entourage of models you have to carry with you for competitive play. You have to carry endless spells, models to summon, and faction terrain (sometimes in multiples!). All of which have the potential to never see play.
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23 hours ago, Pennydude said:
Why does her base have to be soooo biiiiig???? You can use her to deep strike in Living City and I was sad when I found that out. I was lucky to get a spot at Holy Wars here in mid-February and so I need to finalize a 2000pt list AND a 1000pt "sideboard". I get bonus points during the event for utilizing the sideboard and changing up the lists. I'm considering doing a more Kurnoth Heavy list and see if I can transition it into Da Monsterz. I'm currently playing around with a 3 drop Gnarlroot list:
TLA (General, Nurtured by Magic, Nightbloom Garland, Regrowth)
TLA (Chalice of Nectar, Deadly Harvest)
Branchwraith (Spiritsong Stave, Throne of Vines)
Drycha Hamadreth (Regrowth)
30 Dryads
20 Dryads
10 Dryads
Treelord
Spiteswarm Hive
Gladewyrm
Lords of the Clan battalion
Forest Folk battalion
Command point
2000pts
Could drop the command point for another spell. Would love to fit Geminids in but that would probably require dropping Drycha for Durthu.
EDIT/Addition: The Nightbloom Garland is a concession to OBR catapults. The bearer isn't visible to enemy units that are more than 12" away.Yea the frustrating part about Alarielle is that I am pretty sure her base issues with Living City and Gladewyrm weren't intentional. Six inches was probably just slapped on those rules arbitrarily. Luckily the Spiteswarm Hive is 8 inches.
Looks like a fun list but I always advise against double TLAs. A big part of their cost is the command ability and the free forest, and you can't duplicate those. I would recommend you swap out a TLA and an endless spell for Durthu. I don't think you will miss one cast.
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2 hours ago, Forrix said:
To be blunt, I think Iron Hands were only nerfed because the ITC said they were so busted they were banning them from tournaments (ITC being a huge deal in 40k). That is why Rob started his #banSlaanesh thing. If there was a coordinated tournament system through which a vast a majority of AoS tournaments were ran and it had decided to ban Slaanesh then GW would have responded much quicker.
Wow I did not know either of those things! That is pretty significant correlation. Good on the ITC guys for standing up to the IH insanity and good on GW for responding quickly. If only the same thing had occurred for Slaanesh!
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Just now, Pennydude said:
Ooh, I didn't think of it that way. While I think CV 7 is pretty high for the Gladewyrm, I may try it out in my Gnarlroot Monster Mash list because of the potential to heal 2+ monsters at the same time. I'm gonna be painting mine with a D&D Purple Wurm theme.
Haha thats awesome. Yea the Gladewyrm goes from meh to crazy good if you can get it within range of multiple units. The sad part is that it can't actually heal Alarielle because her base is too big 😭
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22 hours ago, Pennydude said:
Personally, I'd go -3 Swords, -3 Swords, -3 Swords, -Gladewyrm, + 6 Scythes, +30 Dryads. That would put you at 1990pts, give you some good staying power on objectives with a 30 Dryad blob, and another solid unit you can use the Frozen Kernal on. Don't underestimate Dryads when 6s explode because their 2" reach is awesome. I'm not the biggest fan of the Gladewyrm only because it's a 7 to cast and only heals on a 3+ when you have a unit within its range.
Personally, I really like the Gladewyrm mode, so anytime I have the points leftover I put it in. However I have had mixed results with it in my games. It competes directly with Quicksilver swords, and the swords are great in a meta that is full of chaos.
The primary benefit, for me at least, is that it can't be turned on you. I can't tell you how many times my own Quicksilver swords or Spellportals have been used against me. I'm like I bought the model, painted it, paid for its points, and casted it, but now its hurting me
One good thing about the higher casting cost it that it takes like an 8 to dispel, so most opponents won't bother attempting it unless they have spare casts.
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2 hours ago, Allornone said:
You know exactly when you are going to get nerfed or buffed. Two weeks after a new battletome comes out for unintended rules interactions, twice a year with the rebalancing faqs and each year with the GHB/CA.
1 hour ago, Dolomyte said:Yeah the faq and errata are spelled out super clearly, two weeks after book and twice a year updates of everything
So I fully anticipate (and appreciate) those regularly scheduled updates. But the examples I referenced fall outside of the biyearly points balancing and post-codex clarifications
For example, the Repulsors were nerfed weeks BEFORE the codex.
Iron Hands weren't just post-codex clarified, they had balance-based rule adjustments
Skaven had a warscroll change during a points update
Meanwhile Slaanesh were tolerated until the annual update. Of all these situations, Slaanesh likely needed the most immediate attention.
Don't get me wrong, all of these changes were VERY welcome. But I'm just making an observation that the methodology isn't always applied consistently.
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10 hours ago, Dolomyte said:
It’s not at all. People were losing their minds about slaanesh but they let it play out and now only did a few minor adjustments. People have been yelling frantically about OBR and they seem to be letting them go till June update. I think unless it’s an obvious interaction that’s broken they will wait and see if something seem overpowered or underpowered.
I think its fair to wait a bit before bringing out the nerf-hammer. What' alarming about GW is the erratic timing of their changes. For example these were relatively unexpected.
They let Slaanesh dominate for months but 40K Repulsors were actually adjusted pre-emptively, in anticipation of the SM codex release. They significantly altered a skaven warscrolls months after their codex but adjusted Iron Hands abilities within a few weeks.
Its kind of creating a weird situation where you never really know when you are going to get nerfed or buffed.
T9A got to this point and it was really alienating for many players.
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2 minutes ago, Dolomyte said:
As someone who plays rats I agree. It’s nice to not have to let my opponent go get lunch while I divide the four different kinds of armor saves he will need to make
Tzaangors have the same exact issue on a slightly smaller scale. They typically have four different attack profiles.
I always get annoyed at models with excessive attack profiles, especially infantry. It slows down the game terribly.
Its particularly terrible when playing vs unfamiliar armies. I find myself constantly asking "any more attacks" and "may I swing now?"
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2 hours ago, Trevelyan said:
Drycha plus 6 Kurnoths hits harder than Alarielle, but remember that it’s Drycha +6 Kurnoths vs Alarielle + whatever she summons (can be 3 Kurnoths) +120 points of spells or other units. Which is better can be highly situational.
Drycha herself is even squishier than Alarielle and is less mobile. Alarielle can die easily if you leave her exposed, but you can keep her alive in many cases if you play more cautiously and don’t overcommit. Gnarlroot helps keep her healthy if your opponent can’t kill her before her next hero phase. I’ve played games where Drycha is awesome, but equally I’ve seen her be underwhelming and die too soon. Alarielle can die early but a 16” fly and the ability to drop a summoned unit at the far end can be an absolute game changer.
Minimum LotC is all you really need. That said, I’d be interested to see if a second Treelord would be viable, allowing you to split the battalion into two pairs on the table. Maybe dropping Alarielle and Drycha (and even downgrading Forest Folk to Outcasts plus a Branchwraith) to take a second Treelord and a bunch of Kurnoths might work. Far too much theory.
I wish they had taken the opportunity to update Alarielle's summoning table. The 10 Spites remain as a head-scratcher, as does the Tree Revenants and Branchwych to a lesser extent.
Personally I don't normally compare Drycha + 6 Kurnoths to Alarielle. If we are talking optimizing, then all of your Kurnoth models should just be in your army period lol. Add battleline and characters to taste.
The decision, for me at least, is usually Alarielle vs Drycha+Durthu.
I agree though that Alarielle can be a liability on the field. She requires careful placement or she will go down early to experienced players. But Drycha is just as bad. Her wound/pt ratio is pretty bad on paper. (though I would argue her reliability makes up for that)
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24 minutes ago, whispersofblood said:
What was different about them?
List 1 -Max Cheese - Keeper and Chariot spam, beastmen battleline
List 2 - Moderate Cheese- 1 Keeper, chariot and misc character spam
List 3 - Minimal Cheese - 1 Keeper, 1 chariot, fiends, seekers
Games vs list 1 and 2 weren't even close. But the game vs list 3 was relatively close until depravity put 900pts+ back on the table. Having your opponent essentially just respawn half their army is just nuts.
Again I think that they focused on the right issues to begin nerfing. If Slaanesh continues to be a problem then perhaps GW should take a look at the Keeper specifically. It seems to be the epicenter of Slaanesh's issues.
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15 minutes ago, michu said:
TBH, there is that old meme:
Opponent's army can't score objectives...
If it doesn't exist.
Ahahaha I actually use that quote a lot jokingly but in this case its probably true.
At least Keepers can't rely on an 83% chance of going first anymore. Having a 33% chance of failure means that Alpha strikes may occasionally fail.
3 minutes ago, whispersofblood said:This is self-fulfilling since many times the changes only solidify the hegemony of the lost people hate playing, which makes people say they weren't hit enough.
Well I have played 3 different Slaanesh lists in a tournament setting and I hated all of them lol.
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Overall I am very happy with the changes to the armies I use. Sylvaneth, Cities, and Idoneth changes were all solid. I will be happy to see wildriders, turtles, and treelords on the table again.
I think the jury is still out regarding Slaanesh. At first glance I really like the nerfs. They are clearly hitting the right nails (depravity and locus) But I agree that the changes may force competitive players into more Keeper (and chariot) spam.
However the one ray of sunshine in all this, is that at the end of the day this is an objective based game. Players who spam Keepers will run into the same issues as other armies: They won't have the infantry they need to screen and retake objectives.
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17 minutes ago, Neffelo said:
Why is that surprising, did anyone think that hunters would go up? They are our most effective unit, but they are not exactly sweeping tournaments. It would pretty much trash the army completely if they went up.
There should be a price difference between bows and swords/scythes. There is clearly a performance difference. Though to be fair it should probably be a discount on bows rather than an increase on the others.
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39 minutes ago, Neffelo said:
Looks like I called it with Alarielle!
Yep you did. I will happily eat crow on this one. My list gained 100+ points. Pretty strange that Hunters didn't go up but whatever. I will take it!
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32 minutes ago, Isotop said:
I totally get you - sorry for my rather harsh answer. I was frankly surprized that you received two wrong answers relatively quickly. This might be a common misunderstanding in the community 🤔. Anyways, I am glad I could help you.
Yes apologies. My sentence should read "any" turn not necessarily "your" turn. I quoted the rule then completely messed up the summary of that rule lol.
1 hour ago, drkrash said:It does. Thanks. No offense taken. I've been playing AoS for 4 years. it's not at all uncommon in a game whose rules are as loose as this to play things incorrectly for years. My position makes perfect narrative sense, so I never questioned it. Nor did my friend till someone at a con pointed it out to him. So I wanted to check.
I actually had two recent opponents in tournaments think the same thing. Its surprisingly common. I think the root of the confusion is how AOS allows you to leave an objective but maintain control over it.
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Here is the quote from the "Battleplan" section of the rules:
"At the end of each player's turn you must check to see if either player has gained control of any objectives."
The rest of the paragraph is also relevant but I think this sentence answers your question.
So long story short: You can only establish control of an objective at the END of one of your turns.
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12 hours ago, martinwolf said:
Hello! I have only played a couple 1000pt and 1250pt games and one thing that is really turning out to be a problem is line of sight for spells. I constantly have some of my own wyldwoods blocking line of sight for spells. I know that probably gets better with more practice but I feel like Wyldwood shouldn’t block LoS for Sylvaneth units. It makes no sense to me, that a Branchwych can’t target a unit of Dryads with Verdant Blessing while both are inside the Wyldwood, but 2 inches apart. 😕
Is it just me as a new Sylvaneth player or is that something you struggle with, too?
It can be a bit annoying, but do note that you ignore woods for the purposes of LOS when you or your target fly. So Alarielle just flat out doesn't have to worry about it.
Branchwyches don't really need to be inside of woods unless your opponent has the ability to snipe them off. They either want to cast a heal spell, summon a forest, or use their AOE spell. In all of those cases you want your Branchwych to be moving up the board each turn.
Branchwraith's are probably going to be summoning each turn, so LOS isn't really a concern.
But like Trevalyn said, the trick is to make sure you have the right spells on the right casters so this never happens. 2000pt games will probably alleviate some of your frustration because you will have access to more casters.
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1 hour ago, Moogoodoo said:
Thanks for the answers, what about dropping the hunters and the arch rev and adding drycha and 20 spite revs ? Im thinking that list might be a solid choice .
Spites are good for a battleline unit, but there are very few instances where they will outperform Kurnoth Hunters. Maybe vs hordes of low-save infantry? Note that Spites only have a 1 inch attack range but have 32 inch bases. So on average you may get 7-8 guys in combat.
Also 20 spites is like $160 USD. You could buy 9 Kurnoth Hunters for the same price lol.
Drycha is still solid even if she doesn't get to use her Spite buff. It would be extremely difficult to keep them in range of her buff anyway.
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On 12/8/2019 at 6:55 AM, Moogoodoo said:
Hi guys, i really want to do a conversion heavy city's army and out of all the city's it has to be the living city 😁 I just have a few questions if I may
Has anyone used a celestant prime in there army? And is he worth it, he's the same points as Dyrthu and has a shooting attack
What's the best build for kurnoth hunters?
I'm thinking of this for my army it's a total wip
Nomad prince
Battle mage
Arch Rev
Celestiant prime
30 eternal guard
10 sisters of the watch
10 sisters of the watch
5 sisters of the thorn
6 kurnoth hunters
Endless spells
Emerald life swarm
pendulum
1 extra cp
Total
1980
Is this a good list to aim for?
I'd like to know from you guys that have played the list
thanks in advance
Looks great! Do note that if you substitute Durthu for the Prime then you will have too many Sylvaneth units.
So most people prefer Kurnoth Hunters in units of 6 to have Scythes, but I have fielded a unit of 6 greatswords in about 3 tournaments now and they do just fine. I can usually get 5 guys in with a decent charge roll and that is still 20 attacks.
I have mentioned this before, but Durthu just isn't that good without Wyldwoods, Glades, and specific artefacts. He loses probably about 40-50% of his damage output outside of Sylvaneth lists. Drycha is a much stronger option for shooting based movement shenanigans.
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12 hours ago, Neffelo said:
I think she could probably still be 40-60 pts cheaper and still be a strong but not OP choice.
She was originally 600 so I doubt she would go right back down to that again. Remember that 60pts gave her access to glades, a better Talon, and a free Verdant Blessing. She lost the additional self-heal which was probably the most painful nerf though.
I actually wish we could take Alarielle and/or the Wardroth Beatle separate. Sometimes I want just a strong caster or a flying behemoth, and the model itself seems like it was intended to be removable.
1 hour ago, overtninja said:Park an Arch-Revenant next to your bow units to give them rerolls of 1. Rerolls make them much more reliable, even if they are hitting on 4s. If you run 6 bows, you can flank Archie with two groups of 3 and go to town on anything that you need to. Archie's command ability works with any Kurnoth on the field, so in such a list you really, really should be using one, or even two!
...I really hope they offer a clam-pack of the hero, it really makes Kurnoth lists much more potent.
Yea Archie is strong in KH list for sure, but I think if you are going to invest 500pts in a clump of bows then you might as well go nuts and run the Heartwood glade so you can reroll ALL hits with the bows. A branchwraith with the item and the Harmony spell will be much more effective.
Archie's command ability is strong but I prefer to use it on units of 6 Hunters, or even large blocks of Spites/Dryads. While it can reach all KH units on the board, it still only affects one unit per use.
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So for the most part I think Alarielle is at least in the ballpark of a good cost. GW tends to price wizards at around 90pts+ per cast. So that is 270pts right off the top. So that puts the beatle at around 190pts which is really good for a flying behemoth.
Alarielle only starts to look bad when you compare her to the insanely undercosted behemoths like Keepers of Secrets. If you only compare her to tier B and C stuff then she is relatively reasonable.
Personally I wish they would remove her summon ability and make her 460pts. Maybe make her "soul pod" ability something like a deepstrike. That way she wouldn't dictate so much of our lists.
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AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion
in Chaos
Posted
I just want them to be cheap, and have the ability to cast allegiance and endless spells. I am not too optimistic on their shooting capability. For the most part GW errs on the side of caution for shooting.
Historically each cast in Tzeentch armies have been ~90 points, so I find myself running out of points quickly even with just 4 or so casts. So if I can fill battle line and also score meaningful casts then I will be happy.