Baron Klatz

It was in the US site not too long ago. I remember because on reddit someone curious about GW was asking if warhammer quest was a thing anymore and I linked them to Hammerhal which was under AoS Box Sets before showing them reviews and places to get Silver Tower too. I was impressed it hung around for so long even with 40k's version. Fingers crossed it's cleared space for something new.

No problem. On another note, how long has the Shadows over Hammerhal set been missing from the GW site? I know I saw it still around on there at least two months ago. I hope that's a sign of a new AoS Warhammer Quest people have been speculating.

Well there-in lies the problem. On one hand it's pretty impossible because gods are tied to the realms thus why Grimnir though lost physically can still be active spiritually and the death gods devoured by Nagash can still aid their followers through fragments of their conscious. Shyish Duardin Dirge priest: "What is death to a God? Dust, and less than dust." -"A Dirge of Dust and Steel" And then there's the problem who to kill. The factions are all tied to their gods so any death of a main god neuters the army, it's realm and nullifies the narrative of using their model anymore. You could try a yet unused god but seeing how the fanbase had fits when they thought ths Azyr reporter implied Malerion was dead it's not a good idea. Same if they killed off Tyrion before he can shine. And we all know the salt when they thought Slaanesh was dead. The safer route is to take down a God-beast. They're up there with the gods in power and influence like the lode-gryphon of Chamon whose very presence warped all the nearby continents while being numerous enough to not hurt anything as both gods and mortals have taken them down so mortals could live in the realms. So I think the best solution is more focus on them. It's been stated that many of the god-beasts went into hiding since the Age of Myth and ones like the lode-gryphon and Dracothion came from outside the realms so a mix of a resurgence of these primordial gods and outer-realm invasion to match the order pantheon's when they first came to the realms would give plenty of opportunities for those god-slaying heroics.

I think narratively allowing a Behemoth choice could be fun. Just upgrade it with the Beastclaw Raiders rules that allow them to capture objectives.

Grimnir: "Am I a joke to you?"

Okay so you can see my confusion when you over-simplified them as "local Skeletor" which did come off as cartoonish. Comparing them to more complex comic villains like Thanos or Doctor Doom would've hit the middleground we both could agree to. Powerful beings with more nuances to them than meets the eye but still straightforward enough for what players expect and want from a god-tier faction figurehead.

We're rooting for you! You've kept the hype train for mega-gargant central going for so long that it'll be a well deserved joy to know you're united with your plastic soulmates. Nice of the Lumineth tome to give them some spot-"light" too. (If you're ever in possession of mega-gargant extra bits to make everything but one of his legs and give him a tree prosthetic leg, well now you know who you can base it on )

This part I disagree with. AoS is crawling with grey when you read the desires and actions behind all the gods and mighty heroes. Like Nagash may be a tyrant but he hits grey areas because not only were the old pantheon oaths broken where he was promised to have reign over all souls as the underworlds new god after helping Sigmar defeat it's God-beast to bring order to Death(even had the undead build many of Order's cities in the Age of Myth as further cooperation) but Sigmar and the Aelven gods kept taking their shares for reincarnation in spite of the agreement and later in the Age of Chaos Sigmar would outright bolt up heroes, princes and champions of Shyish for his Relictors and Stormcast Anvils for their knowledge of souls & necromancy which Nagash has a point in arguing taking such figures when they were needed left those parts of the realms even more vulnerable with their best minds and heroes gone. And then we see the many different aspects Nagash has which are benign death keepers to help those in his charge. "He has a number of aspects for like Sigmar he contains multitudes - All are one in Nagash and Nagash is all. Black Priest: He who gives succour to those whose deaths are too painful to be borne. Nagash-Mor: Calm and silent, he weighs the hearts of dead souls against a feather. The Forlorn Child: He leads those who die before their allotted time to gentle slumber. " That he views life as "false-life" and undeath as "true life" where in his realm the vampires, zombies and skeletons have council alongside the living and it's common practice for the old to be put down or seasonal suicides so they can be raised to rejoin society as either now tireless workers or move up the necromantic hierachy can easily be viewed as Blue and Orange morality since death isn't an end but a new beginning. Grand Marshal Archaon is very straightforward grey area too. He wants to conquer the realms so he can lock out the Chaos gods, kill the remaining Order gods and make it so mortals are no longer pawns but have their own destiny to choose and follow. This is why the Varanguard, his trusted knights and bodyguards, worship only Archaon and not the dark gods and why he has personal control of the All-Gates/Eight-points so he can eventually turn it's access to the chaos realm off like a spigot and lock the dark gods out of the Mortal Realms. To do this though he needs their power to defeat the other gods which is where so much grey area comes from in his ends justifying the bloody means. AoS can have good & evil outlooks but it's anything but just black and white. Just look to Order and it's many soul eating allies like the Deepkin of Aqshy that depopulate coastlines of villages with their soul hunger & predatory flying blood fish that consume the rest, gods of shadow, slavery and deception or nature goddess of life who turned her realm into a death trap and spawns war aspects which stalk the innocent as invaders and defilers. Even the Lumineth as new shining beacons of order have much darkness to their light between aetherquarz dependence making them merciless and having rocky relations with all but the aforementioned Deepkin as their brethren who their creator tried to genocide.

This is a solace I'm having with AoS Champions going pure digital at the start of this year. Also TTS and AoS Underworlds Online are tight. Nothing beats a physical game though so here's hoping we can see the hobbystore light again without masks.

Indeed! I'd love either for his return with a "Beaststorm" campaign in Ghur or Gordrakk to take him under his Mawkrusha wing as a commander (model included ). They made a vague statement in the early Lumineth articles that the release would be how their AoS model is moving forward. Seeing that it's a small faction with later sub-factions expansions (wind, river and zenith geomantrics) shows it's likely going to do the latter. Which is fine in my view. Small easier to get into forces which let's veterans have add-on options or let new players in with small AoS games, AoS Skirmish, Underworlds and Warcry so they can later decide how to build their army by continuing their current faction, using sub-factions, branching out with allies or going Grand Alliance and making a diverse mixed army sounds very appealing.

That's definitely possible. As I mentioned already Ghur is full of lore-only races for now so another tease added to that list of prayed for full factions wouldn't be surprising. On the bright side the lore exposure the Silent People are getting now means a lot of players will be inspired for their narratives and kitbashes. Could even make an Ossiarch one in the Anvil of Apotheosis and say it's from using the fossils of their kind as bone parts to give it extra appendages and flight with bug wings. Edit: could go crazier too with a Destruction version Troggoth/Buggoth(for matched just proxy Ironjawz ancestry). Use Ambull 40k parts and say while it slumbered they ancient beast realm magic to mutate it into one of their kind. Oh yeah, that was my favorite part about them in their first tome (besides how they'd trick Seraphon down for a fight by dressing in chaos bits and shouting nonsense to make them think they're possessed ). Malign Portents even had a story about the head spirits being used as council. https://malignportents.com/story/head-to-head/

That's also Ghur in a nutshell too since lorewise it's given us races of Sanskrit, Aetar and crystal gholemkin grown on the dreadworms by Tzeentchites. Definitely a reason to be happy Underworlds is staying there a bit longer so they can tease more new race concepts for eventual expansion. Absolutely love all of that! I think specialist tribes of Ardboys with metal longbows and giant crossbows they scrapped off warbands on the way to Eight-points they intercepted(so Iron Golems, Vanguard Stormcasts and Ogors) would work well and be fine enough as skirmishers for the Ironjawz. Not so much to kill opponents but force them to have a fair fight with their masters. So they shoot bolts to slow enemies from running, nets to bring flyers down and even Ghur realmstone tipped arrows that make ethereal enemies lose that temporarily as the beast comes out in them and solidifies their primal spirit. Also i'd liked scenery with tons of heads on spikes. Not as a tribal warning but arranged like stadium seats. A really cool thing about Ironjawz lore is they treat severed heads with respect. They have ally heads on them to seek their spirit for council and respected enemy heads so they can get a good seat to all the fights. A scenery piece showing that they believe the heads are all still alive with their spirits watching so the lads fight harder(bravery boost) and a Ironjawz commander can go to the heads for advice ( command point bonus)would be really amazing lorewise and in appearance.

I mean except Gorkamorka those all can be monotheistic and still fit order handily. Cities of Sigmar just got shackled to Sigmar because lorewise they're all Azyrite colonists. The novels point this out several times that the higher ups in the free cities have influence because of their families in Azyrheim and connection to the celestial Grand Conclave. (Thus why the cover has them in Azyrite colors standing near Stormcasts) Time will tell but an overhaul focusing on the rising tribal civilization growing out of the colonists shadow would be perfect to expand on the wider pantheon.

Yeah, Stormcasts already have two great Stormhosts for that and "Grailcast" conversions. The Anvils of Heldenhammer(the black armored ones) reforged from spirits of the long dead who are studious, speak in archaic languages and have a grudge against Nagash fit the bill and then there's the Tempest Lords from the realm of light who worship the Sanguine Lady (new incarnation of Myrmidia) alongside Sigmar, come from the noble houses in Hysh and focus on building civilization in war torn lands, being corteous and even taking mortal squires. They got the bases covered for Bret fans that want to convert in either sense of the word. That would be the purpose of realm-based freeguilds. Ghyranites worship Alarielle, Chamonites Grungni, Hyshites have shown blind warrior monks that style themselves after god-Tyrion, gold masked diviners preaching the Teclian faith, Ulgu natives of course love their sinister aelven gods who are as deceptive as they are, Shyishians who worship the death gods that evaded Nagash and tribal Ghurians worship everything from Gorkamorka to Seraphon who landed there in divine celestial ships. So there should be plenty of options.

That's the main thing in spite of the tiresome circles. And sometimes you get really great info posts like with MaatithoftheBrand's useful posts on stuff that taught me about the Starborne Seraphon essence I didn't know before. Really made yesterday worth it despite the time sink in posts. Regardless it's best to just drop it. These huge threads are turn offs to onlookers because they know wall texts await.

Despite that Excelsis is one of my favorite cities and it's way too possible that it might go under. Which has me both fearful but excited as it could mean a new global campaign again to decide it's fate. It's got such great lore and descriptions like it's connections to the spider plantation forts (Callis and Toll books) to supply it's soldiers with steelsilk chainmail, the glimmering currency being a huge part of the economy in both pay and use of prophecy for job efficiency like helping sailors get monstrous catches, the great expedition fighting force at it's disposal despite being a comparative backwater city in a mineral starved realm(20 Steamtanks!), having my bois the Knights Excelsiors and the White Reaper who puts fear into even undead and just such fun looks at life in Ghur like the harbors made if leather, dung and leviathan bones. It's advancement in the Age of Intrigue with the construction of skyports for needed Kharadron trade, trade routes to the mobile Crawling City which has become a booming cosmopolitan city after a century being freed from chaos and how the Excelsiors stepped up defenses against Tzeentch by creating force fields that fry the unholy(or just unlucky merchants who get greedy) and there's a ton there to look forward to in it being our big steps into the Realm of Beast being explored with both campaigns and rpg's. So ever since Gordrakk put his eyes on it I've been on Grindworm pins and needles.

Yeah, I think it's pretty telling that GW just released more solo play rules for Underworlds. 2020 Nurgle ain't lifting the quarantine any time soon.

I'm excited! Very true. I suppose it is the "2.0 Grand Alliance" books like Legions of Nagash and Cities of Sigmar that make those GA combinations rarer on the tourney lists just by compromise. Yeah, I think realm clans would be the way to go like Orruks from Chamon on Metal beasts or a twisted light one from Hysh with spirits they wrangle from their moons as a challenge to the Grots. Da bad moon & darkness vs their light moon spirits.

I'd be for that. Heck, i hope AoS3 makes the standard Grand Allegiance abilities more powerful so people will wnt to use them competitively. Nothing's better than seeing a mixed force or proper grand allegiance army. It looks awesome seeing so many different races working together to survive in their particular realms like they do in lore and makes it more enjoyable for new hobbyists that want to expand their armies in multiple directions. As for Destruction they could expand on the Skybasha Ironjawz for the ones making pirate airships (scrapfleets), that'd go well with Grotbags for two types of greenskin airfleets. Also from Realmgate Wars the more powerful Ironjawz commanded Scrapcogs in the Sea of Bones which are gigantic paddle wheel ship fortress hybrids with shaman crow nests so they can cast magic shielding on the cogs to protect them from attacks and the giant Grindworms that lurk in the deserts. Would make a great centerpiece for them. On new factions I would like the draconic Sanskrit creatures who are empire builders around the Sea of Bones, evil versions of the Aetar eagle people (probably giant vulture people) and a repentant Ogroids & Fomoroids force that threw off chaos' shackles and came back to Gorkamorka.

This is the main one to me. In a realm where people can find life being born out of the ground and literal life giving water that can sustain them in the life-draining edges of Shyish, finding food and game should be child's play outside of Nurgle's territories. It's in the realm of fire and metal where the food supply gets interesting. So far one thing I noticed is Chamon actually grows good grapes vineyards. Which with a little research is clever as grapes can have a surprising amount of metals in them. "Concentrations and sources of chromium (Cr), manganese (Mn), nickel (Ni), cadmium (Cd), lead (Pb) and arsenic (As) were also analyzed. Higher levels of these heavy metals were observed in grape skins than pulps Finally, we evaluated the risk of ingesting heavy metal through grapes using the estimated daily intake (EDI). No health risk was found by consuming grapes according to the data from this study."

@Kramer Didn't want to clog up your"going second" thread so I thought you'd like to see this recent tweet about the Blade's edge here while I kill two grots with one grudge stone by putting up more Duardin pics. https://mobile.twitter.com/groje/status/1282775282378854401 "jörg frey @groje Fantastic game in new #GHB2020 scenario “the blade’s edge”. Mixed Duardin from Tempest Eye vs. Eels of Domhaim. Took 5 rounds, just the frigate and a Gyrocopter and 4 eels survived and I won by 12:11. Awesome game mechanic, love this mission #ageofsigmar"

I mean it was a joke but where there's a will there's a way. Wouldn't be fun to live of salads made of regular leaves but needs must. Though in "Auction of Blood" showed one of the plant infestations was colorful spores that grew on metal walls and even a flock of birds had sprouts on them from preaching near there so purified & fried mushrooms could be on the menu. Maybe a little aetherquarz wine on the side to catch any magic impurities. Yeah, probably would have the defeated bodies burnt so there's no evidence with his pure new one to claim absolute victory.

My money's on the realm of metal. The novels all show Order making big pushes there despite some set-backs by the Gloomspite claiming some continents with da bad moon warping them and we just had a huge sky war which is even a prominent part of the new Open play. My bet is the next Underworlds will be one of those sky islands that the Gloomspite recently terraformed into an underground (Underworlds) which leaves a reason to try and either conquer it or grab the prized alchemy stones lost there when the kingdoms came under new green management. Though I certainly wouldn't say no to a shattered coastal city in Ymetrica to get our hands on troves of the aetherquartz brooches that went missing.

Well Alarielle is, in a way. "Currently it is a city that never sleeps, its industry unhalting. To this day Alarielle is still trying to retake the city's grounds via raining fast-growing plants that require fast removal." If they have a vegan diet they're set. Plus there's the canals, their Festermere Realmgate to Azyrheim, militarized highway they heavily trade through and they're not too far away from two parts of the sea for fishing ehich is a major mortal realms food industry since the lands were corrupted by chaos. I love that too about him. He's the (un)living incarnation of "victors write the history books". With how smugly he thought himself as still undefeated despite being killed by Archaon leaves no doubt in my mind that if he conquered the Eight-points he'd make sure the ink would smear on that bit of trivia.

Yeah, sorry for being stubborn on this. Seraphon got changes that enhanced their flavors for everyone. Should focus on the wins all round and less on the trifling changes every new setting goes through. I'll move on. @Grdaat Calling a truce. Way off topic.